[webbie64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stikk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wait, I'm confused here.. I had a look on the APS site and their cables are SO damn expensive.. The ER4-Ps are only about $200US and the 4ft APS cable is another $190! Assuming the ground is separated, that's like $12/ft for each strand!! As far as I know, the most expensive cable out there at the moment is the Jena Labs cryo at $5/ft, how does APS justify this ludicrous price??!! Also, it's not exactly clear what kind of wire they use: "The ER4 cable is constructed of high grade copper wire." High grade copper..? That could mean anything.. Just my opinion but I'm not entirely sure why anyone would spend this kind of money on a cable...

[AKZip] generally gets wire specifically made to the spec he's determined (generally after considerable research and trialling). So the unique 'blend' of the wire likely adds to the cost.

In addition the ER4P was not a mainstream project when he started it - As I understand it, it's only been the demand that has led to it becoming a part of the APS product range. But it is still very labour intensive and [AKZip] is a perfectionist when it come to quality - I'm sure he'd prefer to charge a bit more and take the time required to ensure its always 100%+ right.

Why do people like me spend the money? I'm sure we all have our unique reasons - for me it's seeing if I can get a genuine HiFi output from portable audio via IEMs: I'm quite finnicky and have yet to find a set-up that does that for me (In fact I'm pretty well done with this exploration and although I've got incredible portable IEM sound now, it still pales significantly compared to the electrostatics, even the portable FatCat SR-001s).

 

[Lil' Knight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stikk /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as I know, the most expensive cable out there at the moment is the Jena Labs cryo at $5/ft, how does APS justify this ludicrous price??!!

There are tons of more expensive wires out there.

Considering that only APS offers custom cable for the Etys, that price is fair.

 

[qusp]

the jena cable is absolutely not the most expensive headphone cable. try getting a 6' piccolino livewires cable. that would be at least $1000USD

 

[tonyep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif the jena cable is absolutely not the most expensive headphone cable. try getting a 6' piccolino livewires cable. that would be at least $1000USD

That cable price is mad!

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by webbie64 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I have an amp...yes, it's the Picollino (so with or without amp the improvements are quite noticeable)...yes, it's an insane amount of money...and yes, as I posted, I agree that there are other things to consider - I don't think the 'hypocrite' label applies, though, to either of us. As I posted, there are just a couple of cables I've come across that do make that significant a difference that I'd rate their consideration as much as some other changes in the audio path (mainly because the change is so significant it could lead to/require other changes in the chain to make the most of the new benefits/re-attain a best overall improved synergy). As stated, I think lmf22 is making a good decision for his personal 'portable audio' journey at this point in time. Have fun with the SE530s, lmf22.

wow I thought so, been thinking about getting some livewires and doing the recable myself.; so its def worthwhile hey? hmmmmm

my wallet is squirming. BTW I wasn't calling you a hypocrite either; just saying that since I promote cables, that if I didn't personally think there was a worthwhile difference I would be a hypocrite. and yes you are right; i'm now tossing up the rudistor xj-03 and lisa III for amps and denon MD5000 with jena recable (cant justify a really long cable made from piccolino, only the wiring on my rig and possibly a livewires cable which would be maybe 2-3feet long. luckily I have the skills needed to do the recable myself; but its still an insane amount of money and I would have to buy another cable to make it with.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkkopi /img/forum/go_quote.gif That cable price is mad!

hehe you again; yes actually it could be a bit of an understatement

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkninja67 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was in the same position as you a month or so ago. Had and loved the Etymotic ER4P for a long time but wanted something different. Went to the Shure SE530 and fell in love. I still have my Etys as they have been solid and I like them for classical music over the Shures. Amping? meh.... both are easy to drive from many portable sources and do just fine unamped IMO. I was looking at a RSA Tomahawk but thought I would get some music instead.

very good unamped : yes; amazing amped : absolutely

 

[webbie64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow I thought so, been thinking about getting some livewires and doing the recable myself.; so its def worthwhile hey? hmmmmm my wallet is squirming. BTW I wasn't calling you a hypocrite either; just saying that since I promote cables, that if I didn't personally think there was a worthwhile difference I would be a hypocrite. and yes you are right; i'm now tossing up the rudistor xj-03 and lisa III for amps and denon MD5000 with jena recable (cant justify a really long cable made from piccolino, only the wiring on my rig and possibly a livewires cable which would be maybe 2-3feet long. luckily I have the skills needed to do the recable myself; but its still an insane amount of money and I would have to buy another cable to make it with.

I haven't posted a review (yet) because I'm still deciding on how 'worth it' it is. In short, yes, it does raise them to a whole new level and the sound is incredibly engaging. However the highs are 'just' short of those I cherish on the APS ER4Ps and I wonder whether the Picollino upgrade is simply delivering more than the Livewires drivers can deliver in terms of highs - makes me guess Headphoneaddict is right in saying perhaps the Picollino upgrade is an even better match with the UE11s rather than the Livewires.

Not to say I won't be keeping them, because they are truly wonderful, but, in terms of synergy, be prepared for the possibility the upgrade will reveal other weaknesses in the chain that you might want to deal with.

 

[qusp]

yep i'm prepared for that

actually it would just give me good justification to deal with that

all thats on the cards regardless if I do that or not. I had thought of getting the livewires because i'm impatient to get customs, cant wait for freq to come back and cant afford the UE10-11 really/ and vcap dock, lisa, rudistor is already on the cards. i'm well aware of how revealing the piccolino is after already building a couple of LOD's and trying it with a LOD->silverbullet RCA cable. the last I have deconstructed to use the wire for the vcap dock, instead using the bullets in a jena/cryo silver rca

 

[nc8000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stikk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wait, I'm confused here.. I had a look on the APS site and their cables are SO damn expensive.. The ER4-Ps are only about $200US and the 4ft APS cable is another $190! Assuming the ground is separated, that's like $12/ft for each strand!! As far as I know, the most expensive cable out there at the moment is the Jena Labs cryo at $5/ft, how does APS justify this ludicrous price??!! Also, it's not exactly clear what kind of wire they use: "The ER4 cable is constructed of high grade copper wire." High grade copper..? That could mean anything.. Just my opinion but I'm not entirely sure why anyone would spend this kind of money on a cable...

I would guess that the material value of the cable comes to between 25% and 50% of the cost, the rest is the labour invovled in making the ER4 connectors, braiding the cable and the solder- and assembly work inside the jack. At one point when my original S cable had to go back to have the connectors replaced as the first design had a weakness in it I asked if he could redo the cable as a P cable while he was at it and replied that he might as well make a whole new cable as apparently a lot of time goes into what ever is inside the jack.

 

[robm321]

The cable is handmade. No factory or assembly line. Try finding anything handmade these days that isn't a fortune. It's also a specialty item for a small market, so $200 makes more sense with that in mind.

I seriously doubt the material is expensive, but he has to justify his time research and make a small profit at the end of the day as well.

OP if you like Sennheissers, then I think you will like The Shure E530s. They have a similar sound. The only issue is the high frequency rolloff which is why Etys tend to do classical better. This can be good with rock recordings that can have sharp highs. The Shures soften that where the Etys don't.

 

[darkninja67]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif OP if you like Sennheissers, then I think you will like The Shure E530s. They have a similar sound. The only issue is the high frequency rolloff which is why Etys tend to do classical better. This can be good with rock recordings that can have sharp highs. The Shures soften that where the Etys don't.

This.

The Shures remind me a bit like the Senn HD600s I had. Very speaker like for me and easy to wear all day without fatigue.
I find the the Shure olives offer better bass and isolation over the Complys but they give up the ultimate comfort of the Complys.

How you doing Rob?

 

[Navyblue]

I believe that many looks for the one setup for them in their search journey. While it is possible that one get a setup that is exactly right for them, I believe for most people there isn't one best setup that they can get. And aside for budget issue, there just isn't any reason to insist on a monogamous relationship with an IEM.

Unless you really dislike your ER-4P, I'd suggest you keep it and get whatever other IEM that you want. I recently bought a Philip SHE9850, which to me sounded a lot like HD600/650 (of course not as great). It's bassy, warm and rolled off at the top which is the antithesis of ER-4P. I thought it is rather refreshing whenever I make the change in either direction. And it is great to be able to change the sound signature according to what I'm listenning to or mood.

And I agree with the rest, the greatest change would come from the IEM, followed by the amp and the cable (not counting the uber expensive ones I guess).

 

[lmf22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif OP if you like Sennheissers, then I think you will like The Shure E530s. They have a similar sound. The only issue is the high frequency rolloff which is why Etys tend to do classical better. This can be good with rock recordings that can have sharp highs. The Shures soften that where the Etys don't.

That's one of the reasons I chose the Shure SE530, because it has a similar sound signature to the HD650 and I have my HD650. Many people here seem to agree that the ER4P do classical very well.

Unfortunately, I do not like to listen to classical when I'm on the go. For classical music, I like sitting at home, in a good chair, and just close my eyes and enjoy (with the HD650). When I'm on the go and listening with IEMs, I like to keep my eyes open and be aware of my surroundings. I don't like things (or people) coming up and surprising me. I also don't listen with IEMs when I'm walking for the same reason. You never know where a car might "sudden appear out of nowhere."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navyblue /img/forum/go_quote.gif I believe that many looks for the one setup for them in their search journey. While it is possible that one get a setup that is exactly right for them, I believe for most people there isn't one best setup that they can get. And aside for budget issue, there just isn't any reason to insist on a monogamous relationship with an IEM. Unless you really dislike your ER-4P, I'd suggest you keep it and get whatever other IEM that you want. I recently bought a Philip SHE9850, which to me sounded a lot like HD600/650 (of course not as great). It's bassy, warm and rolled off at the top which is the antithesis of ER-4P. I thought it is rather refreshing whenever I make the change in either direction. And it is great to be able to change the sound signature according to what I'm listenning to or mood. And I agree with the rest, the greatest change would come from the IEM, followed by the amp and the cable (not counting the uber expensive ones I guess).

I completely agree. I have no budget issues, so there's really no need to keep one and sell the other. The problem is that sometimes I have hard time deciding which headphones to use (for example, AKG K701 or Sennheiser HD650. They are both so good. But I'm leaning more towards the HD650 at the moment).

I imagine I will have the same problem choosing between ER4P and SE530. However, having said that, it is refreshing to switching to another pair of headphones after a while with one of them. I will play with the ER4P and SE530 for a few months and decide whether to keep one or keep both.

 

[Caution]

I would like to hear your impressions of the SE530s, I had the chance to here Qusps pair (Thanks Qusp!), and I had previously tried the TF.10s and SF.5s and coming from the Etys, I felt that all 3 pairs of iems had something weird with how everything is blended together, They all sort of sounded hollow and soundstage seemed a bit artificial, I can never quite pick out whats exactly wrong with the sound, I guess I need more time with them, but I'm guessing it has to do with the 2/3 drivers being in each iem and something weird going on there.