[grawk]

I don't think the SR71 sounds anything approaching tubelike. It's fine for what it is.

I couldn't begin to tell you which you'd prefer. I liked the pico, the duet, and the minidac. My favorite of the 3 is the duet, but that's based more on ergonomics and features than anything else.

If I had any need for a portable amp, I'd have gone with the pico. It's a great sounding source, and can double as a great amp for an ipod. If I owned a portable amp, it'd be for sale, and I'd own the pico.

 

[edwardsean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interesting breakdown. Thank you. I've been quite torn about this decision and the only thing that has stopped me deciding on the Duet over the Pico is the opinion of its good but colorless to the point of tasteless amp. I love the tube-like rich sound of the SR-71 amp and am worried I'm going to end up with a clinical emotionless sound coming from the headamp of the Duet. If ONLY I could hear them both, then I could make my own decision with my own ears once and for all. But that is not an option, sadly.

Jeremy, if I've hindered you from getting a Duet, my sincere apologies. Please let me remind you that I also wrote that when I compared the Duet and Pico both DAC+Amp to DAC+Amp, I sold the Pico (had a string of offers in minutes). Let me offer a bit of perspective. The amp is netural but I agree with others who have championed it. It is a surprisingly good headamp. Tasteless? That's not really a negative statement. The musicians and producers you listen to already add in their taste. They are all taking great pains to use modern and vintage equipment along with digital emulations to create a warm and lively presentation. The Duet does little to add its own taste (again this is its design for pro monitoring), but (and this is critical) does nothing to detract from it. That's all I meant by "tasteless." In the end, I would be pleased to back off of using it. Words to me that describe a negative neutrality are "boring," "flat," and the dreaded "sterile." The Duet's headamp is none of these things.

This is what I would guess for you. I think you'll be very content with the Duet as is. Once you take the line out and plug in your SR71, I'm pretty sure you'll be even happier. [You really should stop reading here]

Against the Pico? Iron Dreamer wrote a pretty comprehensive comparison between the Pico and the Apogee Minidac far far in favor of the Pico. There are important differences between the Minidac and Duet, but in the areas of his assessment they carry to both. You all realize the only reason why we don't have a war here, or at least a bit of a skirmish, is because we're staying on "Dedicated Source" turf and not writing this all up on the "Headphone Amp" forum. As all of you I'm sure, I have no desire to debate it; the Pico is a fantastic product. But, for the reasons that it's clear to Iron Dreamer's mind that the Pico is superior, I think the exact opposite. To him, the bass is focused and the presentation nice and close. I heard it as weak in bass (not just distinct) and small in soundstage. The apogee sound to me is rumbling in the bass and presents a wide lush intimate soundscape. Does that sound slightly biased? In the end, it may have a lot to do with system synergy. I'm pairing up with RAL-cabled K701s. That may explain a lot of the preference.

Jeremy, if you're still reading. I apologize in advance.

 

[Jeremy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwardsean /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jeremy, if I've hindered you from getting a Duet, my sincere apologies. Please let me remind you that I also wrote that when I compared the Duet and Pico both DAC+Amp to DAC+Amp, I sold the Pico (had a string of offers in minutes). Let me offer a bit of perspective. The amp is netural but I agree with others who have championed it. It is a surprisingly good headamp. Tasteless? That's not really a negative statement. The musicians and producers you listen to already add in their taste. They are all taking great pains to use modern and vintage equipment along with digital emulations to create a warm and lively presentation. The Duet does little to add its own taste (again this is its design for pro monitoring), but (and this is critical) does nothing to detract from it. That's all I meant by "tasteless." In the end, I would be pleased to back off of using it. Words to me that describe a negative neutrality are "boring," "flat," and the dreaded "sterile." The Duet's headamp is none of these things. This is what I would guess for you. I think you'll be very content with the Duet as is. Once you take the line out and plug in your SR71, I'm pretty sure you'll be even happier. [You really should stop reading here] Against the Pico? Iron Dreamer wrote a pretty comprehensive comparison between the Pico and the Apogee Minidac far far in favor of the Pico. There are important differences between the Minidac and Duet, but in the areas of his assessment they carry to both. You all realize the only reason why we don't have a war here, or at least a bit of a skirmish, is because we're staying on "Dedicated Source" turf and not writing this all up on the "Headphone Amp" forum. As all of you I'm sure, I have no desire to debate it; the Pico is a fantastic product. But, for the reasons that it's clear to Iron Dreamer's mind that the Pico is superior, I think the exact opposite. To him, the bass is focused and the presentation nice and close. I heard it as weak in bass (not just distinct) and small in soundstage. The apogee sound to me is rumbling in the bass and presents a wide lush intimate soundscape. Does that sound slightly biased? In the end, it may have a lot to do with system synergy. I'm pairing up with RAL-cabled K701s. That may explain a lot of the preference. Jeremy, if you're still reading. I apologize in advance.

No worries! Thanks for your second take on this. Very helpful. In fact I had already read Iron Dreamer's comparison of the Pico an MiniDac so it has not confused me any further. I believe he is testing the Duet this weekend at a meet in Fairfax. CA. I hope he will post his impressions.

 

[JzzMaTzz]

I don't know about anyone else but, the highs on the duet gave me a serious earache! And this was on a speaker system. I hope it's just a synergy thing.

 

[PhaedrusX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JzzMaTzz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know about anyone else but, the highs on the duet gave me a serious earache! And this was on a speaker system. I hope it's just a synergy thing.

jp11801 mentioned earlier in this thread that there was some glare on some poorly recorded material, but that it was limited to just a few tracks.

do you experience this with everything you listen to? up to now, an overly bright presentation is the only concern i have about the Duet.

 

[edwardsean]

Synergy is a funny thing. You're always listening to everything at once so it takes a bit of work to isolate what is causing what and because of what interactions. It's complicated.

Simply though, it's not the Duet.

It is not a harsh unit; it's smooth up top, sparkly not spiky. It is going to give you the highs the engineer put in; you want that though. However if are trying to attenuate the treble response of something downstream, it's not your unit. I use the Duet with silver cabled AKG K701s--that's a lot of high end. But it's all pretty pure so it tickles my ear rather than making it ache.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JzzMaTzz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know about anyone else but, the highs on the duet gave me a serious earache! And this was on a speaker system. I hope it's just a synergy thing.

 

[JzzMaTzz]

Sorry I haven't responded earlier, I have been trying to isolate where exactly the glare was coming from.

All recordings I used were of pretty high quality, like Wayne Shorter' "Night Dreamer" RVG, Seal' "Human Beings" and Kurt Elling' "Night Moves", among others.

I do believe it may be a weak link somewhere in the chain, like the breakout cable. I remember the K1000' had a similar problem with their stock cable and changing it to something more robust helped to remedy it's glare a bit.

 

[PhaedrusX]

a well-regarded DIYer has put together a prototype cable for the Duet, using only RCA outs from the multi-pin connector.
you can see a picture of it in the "Mayberry" meet thread.
if you have no need for the A/D conversion, something like that might interest you.

 

[Jeremy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaedrusX /img/forum/go_quote.gif a well-regarded DIYer has put together a prototype cable for the Duet, using only RCA outs from the multi-pin connector. you can see a picture of it in the "Mayberry" meet thread. if you have no need for the A/D conversion, something like that might interest you.

I did a search and cannot find this. Would you mind giving the link?

 

[PhaedrusX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did a search and cannot find this. Would you mind giving the link?

here you go:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/ma...l-meet-291921/

the cable is at the bottom of the first page.

 

[Jeremy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaedrusX /img/forum/go_quote.gif here you go: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/ma...l-meet-291921/ the cable is at the bottom of the first page.

Thanks, I saw that but didn't realize that is what it was for. I've been following that thread hoping for impressions of the Duet especially compared to the Pico but not sure any were done sadly.

 

[grawk]

I've just made up some cables to allow me to compare the minidac to the duet directly. I made XLR -> RCA cables, so I'm not using the mini-out jack, and not comparing full differential to single ended. The sound signatures are VERY similar. Taking USB input to the minidac and firewire to the duet (only option for that), level matched with the radio shack spl meter. The sound signatures are very similar, but with a little more resolution to the duet and a little more punch to the mini-dac. I could easily be happy with either. The duet has the advantage of having analog inputs, the minidac has the advantage of being fully differential, and having optical, coax, and aes inputs. I'd give the looks advantage to the duet. The headphone jack is better on the duet. When driving senns, the ability to go fully differential is a BIG advantage to the minidac. When driving a balanced amp, same big advantage.

 

[Currawong]

I was pretty surprised at how my duet could even drive AKG 701's, albeit not nearly as well as a proper amp (you don't get the full sound-stage). A/B'ing around some cables between the headphone out and line outs, using low-tolerance RCA->1/4 adaptors, I can detect some loss in the break-out cable. As my muso/hi-fi-nut friend back in Australia has had good results re-cabling the break-out cables of his sound cards, once he gets a Duet, he's going to make up a couple of cables for us, once he finds a good VGA plug. A better one of n_maher's break-out cables that I noticed before is pictured here. My friend would be doing one that's not just RCA out, but has the inputs as well, using Van Den Hul cable.

 

[Hopstretch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif As my muso/hi-fi-nut friend back in Australia has had good results re-cabling the break-out cables of his sound cards, once he gets a Duet, he's going to make up a couple of cables for us, once he finds a good VGA plug. A better one of n_maher's break-out cables that I noticed before is pictured here. My friend would be doing one that's not just RCA out, but has the inputs as well, using Van Den Hul cable.

Is the Duet pinout a standard VGA? I thought it was a proprietary connector? Anyway, if your mate figures it out and wants to sell a couple of those breakouts to RCA please shoot me a PM as I'd like to neaten up my chain.

 

[grawk]

It is a standard vga connector, and apogee will send the pinout to anyone who emails them.