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Feb 15, 2015 at 9:53 PM Post #146,611 of 177,745
  You sure about that? Because last time I remember Android phone repair was remarkably easy too. In fact you don't need to go out and buy pentalobe screwdrivers or in some cases bother with glue. For buttons I don't know but your major components generally come out easy on Android too. Generally home buttons/nav buttons don't exist or are the capacitive ones.
 
http://www.wired.com/2012/10/apple-and-epeat-greenwashing/
 
It's not even remotely environmentally friendly. They also have to go through the trouble of all the glue and garbage. Would have also been easier on them to use screws instead. It very much is a throwaway design.
 
I personally could care less in most cases since I rarely ever do these things either. As long as the fans, battery, and storage are removable I'm okay with it. RAM I could care less about. As with phones the same goes for me there for repair-ability. As long as that battery comes out since that seems to be the thing that dies most.

 
 
I did smartphone repair for a while. And also worked in a computer repair shop. 
 
Apple smartphones are infinitely easier to fix than Android ones in general and often times cheaper. 
 
Or at least this was true for iPhone 5 and pre. Where LCD+Digitizers were generally only $30. Now, the 6 's LCD+Digitizer costs as much as the ones from Samsung etc. 
 
But pre 2012, Apple smartphones and Apple laptops were some of the easiest computers to fix, upgrade, customize etc.
 
The pre 2012 Apple MBPs had just a backplate with 8 or so easy screws. Once you take off the entire piece of aluminum, you can pretty much remove and upgrade everything. Same with smartphones where the iPhone 4 and pre were super super easy to fix. 
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 9:57 PM Post #146,613 of 177,745
  Pre doesn't matter. Now is what matters because it points the direction they are going. It's like reminiscing about AMD's glory days compared to now and expecting some magic to happen.

I was just pointing out history. 
 
Most people that have never done repair don't realize how easy Apple computers/phones were to fix/customize compared to the competition. 
 
 
Nowadays, their computers and phones are as hard to fix as everybody elses though. So I don't bother with trying to fix them anymore 
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 9:58 PM Post #146,614 of 177,745
  I was just pointing out history. 
 
Most people that have never done repair don't realize how easy Apple computers/phones were to fix/customize compared to the competition. 
 
 
Nowadays, their computers and phones are as hard to fix as everybody elses though. So I don't bother with trying to fix them anymore 

I've seen the previous macbooks. In fact a bunch of stuff was replaceable. I'd be lying through my teeth if I said nothing was.
 
*sigh* such is the race for thinness. It doesn't even make sense when current computers and whatnot are thin enough. They're sacrificing stability which is something the general public doesn't realize, but in the end money determines it all.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:01 PM Post #146,617 of 177,745
Hm, I think I stepped in to the PC-fi thread. Don't mind me, I was just trying to get to the AAMML one.

Can't stop the derailing. 
tongue.gif
 It's going to happen.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:06 PM Post #146,618 of 177,745
  I've seen the previous macbooks. In fact a bunch of stuff was replaceable. I'd be lying through my teeth if I said nothing was.
 
*sigh* such is the race for thinness. It doesn't even make sense when current computers and whatnot are thin enough. They're sacrificing stability which is something the general public doesn't realize, but in the end money determines it all.

 
The race for thinness does have benefits to computer engineering in the sense that it forces engineers to take current stuff and cram/make them smaller by imagining every possible way of doing so.
 
The current CPU we have used to be made up of components that were physically seperate. Some guy thought and said why not put them together. 
 
Same with the chipsets and graphical units. 
 
Most CPUs are soldered in on laptops nowadays to save space. 99.9999% of people will never open it to try to upgrade. Factor in the amount of space say transistors take up, and the area that the physical mechanisms take up for a socketed CPU and they decided to solder it. 
 
This idea is now being applied to RAM and batteries of course. 
 
In an age where people do and are getting more prosperous, so to, does there become disposable income for one to purchase such high tech devices irregardless of its reusable/sustainabbility metrics. 
Hm, I think I stepped in to the computer-fi thread. Don't mind me, I was just trying to get to the AAMML one.

lol
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:13 PM Post #146,619 of 177,745
   
The race for thinness does have benefits to computer engineering in the sense that it forces engineers to take current stuff and cram/make them smaller by imagining every possible way of doing so.
 
The current CPU we have used to be made up of components that were physically seperate. Some guy thought and said why not put them together. 
 
Same with the chipsets and graphical units. 
 
Most CPUs are soldered in on laptops nowadays to save space. 99.9999% of people will never open it to try to upgrade. Factor in the amount of space say transistors take up, and the area that the physical mechanisms take up for a socketed CPU and they decided to solder it. 
 
This idea is now being applied to RAM and batteries of course. 
 
In an age where people do and are getting more prosperous, so to, does there become disposable income for one to purchase such high tech devices irregardless of its reusable/sustainabbility metrics. 
lol

Currently the state is fine but I'm just wondering about the future because this race isn't going to die anytime soon. Just like the pixel density race is good for now, once we get to a good enough point, why keep going?
 
Pixel density race I could see turning into the vector race. Vector screens would be awesome, death of the pixel.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:18 PM Post #146,620 of 177,745
  Currently the state is fine but I'm just wondering about the future because this race isn't going to die anytime soon. Just like the pixel density race is good for now, once we get to a good enough point, why keep going?
 
Pixel density race I could see turning into the vector race. Vector screens would be awesome, death of the pixel.

 
Competition, innovation, technology, future. 
 
So many variables.
 
Can you just imagine, ARM, Microsoft, Intel or Google to say 'ok, here we are...let's stop' one day?
 
Why keep going is something that is bad for the human race. It sets a bad precedent/culture for the future. In where if we as a race were to use this idea at any point in our past, it would have meant our doom.
 
Example:
The Chinese dynasty closing off gates to the world because they had everything.
 
 
Innovation and technology are these precedents and ideas that our current society spends money in and encourages and this is good. It continuously breaks the norm and is basically what Moore's law is based upon. The everlasting curiosity that a human may have to continuously strive for something more and better. 
 
There should never be a point where we actively stop technology in the tracks of an industry because it seems like its already there. A stagnant market is bad for companies, bad for business, and ultimately bad for society. 
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM Post #146,621 of 177,745
  Pre doesn't matter. Now is what matters because it points the direction they are going. It's like reminiscing about AMD's glory days compared to now and expecting some magic to happen.

 
I'd happily trade repairability for better user experience, that's what I expect when I pay a premium for a premium product.
 
For the rMBP 15 for example, the battery replacement service is reasonable priced at $200.
 
If you want the battery to be replaceable, you'll have to build them into a pack which will take up extra room and/or reduce capacity. A millimetre is a big deal when talking about batteries, and I don't think it's worth losing 10-20% capacity just to be able to replace the battery yourself. Battery tech has come a long way from days gone by, you're expected to retain about 80% capacity after 1000 cycles, that's a fair amount of usage to be honest.
 
The extra wasted space between the cells is probably for cooling and for safety reasons, because cells expand when they fail and you don't want exploding macbooks.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:22 PM Post #146,622 of 177,745
   
I'd happily trade repairability for better user experience, that's what I expect when I pay a premium for a premium product.
 
For the rMBP 15 for example, the battery replacement service is reasonable priced at $200.
 
If you want the battery to be replaceable, you'll have to build them into a pack which will take up extra room and/or reduce capacity. A millimetre is a big deal when talking about batteries, and I don't think it's worth losing 10-20% capacity just to be able to replace the battery yourself. Battery tech has come a long way from days gone by, you're expected to retain about 80% capacity after 1000 cycles, that's a fair amount of usage to be honest.
 
The extra wasted space between the cells is probably for cooling and for safety reasons, because cells expand when they fail and you don't want exploding macbooks.

Apple and most hardware manufactuers know this very well....
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:28 PM Post #146,623 of 177,745
 
Phones I just checked and those are fine (at least the iPhone 6 which was the only one I checked is showing the direction they've decided on. Haven't checked previous ones).
 
Pretty sure the total transportation and Apple's own processing costs add up to more things being exhausted, whether it's resources or pollutants.
 
That is a lot of adhesive. It would have made more sense to do a battery held in with a screw considering they could have cut off slightly less aluminium on the unibody. Look at all of that empty space around the battery. Clearly could have just left some extra aluminium that can also contribute extra stability at the wrist-rest area (not really needed but an extra benefit). I don't see the point in trying to cut out more aluminium so you can recycle it to put it into other extrusions when the process of recycling the aluminium itself is quite resource consuming. That doesn't mean they have to do the even more resource straining cost of obtaining Al from the Earth but cutting out that little extra bit of aluminium doesn't make that much sense to me on a mass-production scale either.
 

Yuck.

The recycling is gonna happen anyway, so the only real issue is the costs. If I recall correctly, glass and aluminum is virtually infinitely recyclable, but plastic can degrade through the recycling process, but takes much longer to naturally degrade than aluminum.
 
Don't forget Apple has discontinued the plastic MacBoks and now only sells the aluminum unibody Pros and Airs.
 
 
I did smartphone repair for a while. And also worked in a computer repair shop. 
 
Apple smartphones are infinitely easier to fix than Android ones in general and often times cheaper. 
 
Or at least this was true for iPhone 5 and pre. Where LCD+Digitizers were generally only $30. Now, the 6 's LCD+Digitizer costs as much as the ones from Samsung etc. 
 
But pre 2012, Apple smartphones and Apple laptops were some of the easiest computers to fix, upgrade, customize etc.
 
The pre 2012 Apple MBPs had just a backplate with 8 or so easy screws. Once you take off the entire piece of aluminum, you can pretty much remove and upgrade everything. Same with smartphones where the iPhone 4 and pre were super super easy to fix. 

Cost is a pretty big deciding factor for a user when they break a device and have to decide whether to fix it or trash it.
 
This is where history kicks in; The iPhone 4 is probably the longest lasting and most repaired smartphone out there thanks to that durable stainless steel chassis, only beating the iPhone 4S because it is older. People are happy to replace the screen on a 4/4S several times, because it's affordable and worth it. The chassis protects the internal components and stands against wear and tear very well. Its durability allows it to never need replacement, unlike even the iPhone 5's housing, which can dent enough such that it doesn't fit a new screen.
 
Because Android phones typically have higher resolution screens (and quoted specs that easily marks how outdated a particular model is), they also cost more, and that gives less incentive for a user to want to repair it when they could upgrade to a phone with a newer design, more RAM, better chipset, higher resolution/display density etc.
 
 
I've seen the previous macbooks. In fact a bunch of stuff was replaceable. I'd be lying through my teeth if I said nothing was.
 
*sigh* such is the race for thinness. It doesn't even make sense when current computers and whatnot are thin enough. They're sacrificing stability which is something the general public doesn't realize, but in the end money determines it all.

The thing is, Apple is pretty much the trend-setter for these things, so expect to see less removable batteries and more aluminum, in both laptops and phones.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:32 PM Post #146,624 of 177,745
http://www.wired.com/2012/10/apple-and-epeat-greenwashing/

It's not even remotely environmentally friendly. They also have to go through the trouble of all the glue and garbage. Would have also been easier on them to use screws instead. It very much is a throwaway design.

I didn't understand the point of that article. It seemed more like a rant based on personal experience than the actual "green" aspect. The only reason why the rMBP barely passed the EPEAT standards is because it can't be upgraded, accessed through common tools, and removal of hazardous parts is difficult for the common man. Oh boo hoo, good thing Apple offers a free recycling program that takes care of this.
http://www.apple.com/recycling/gift-card/
http://www.apple.com/recycling/includes/recycles-responsibly.html
http://www.apple.com/recycling/includes/recycling-faq.html
What is the Apple Recycling Program?

The Apple Recycling Program is part of Apple’s commitment to minimizing the impact our products have on the environment. It offers you a way to dispose of your electronic equipment responsibly.
...
What’s the difference between “reuse” and “recycling”?

Equipment may qualify for reuse if it has monetary value and can be resold in the secondary electronics market. Equipment qualifies for recycling if it does not have monetary value; it will be dismantled so that materials such as metals, plastics, and glass can be collected for use in the manufacturing of new products, reducing the need to mine raw materials.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 10:33 PM Post #146,625 of 177,745
  The recycling is gonna happen anyway, so the only real issue is the costs. If I recall correctly, glass and aluminum is virtually infinitely recyclable, but plastic can degrade through the recycling process, but takes much longer to naturally degrade than aluminum.
 
Don't forget Apple has discontinued the plastic MacBoks and now only sells the aluminum unibody Pros and Airs.
 
The thing is, Apple is pretty much the trend-setter for these things, so expect to see less removable batteries and more aluminum, in both laptops and phones.

Glass I don't know but Al is basically infinitely recyclable and easy to do (just melt it again, although that requires a good amount of energy).
 
I'm aware. I'm not promoting plastic or anything.
 
Yup. Although it'll probably be more of Aluminum and short-fiber carbon fiber.
 

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