ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |
Nov 23, 2015 at 5:49 AM Post #1,441 of 16,326
Already sold my DX90 and eagerly looking for a new DAP since I have only iPhone as a player right now. If the feedback of DP-X1 is positive when it released I will surely pull the trigger at the beginning of the December.
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 7:07 AM Post #1,442 of 16,326
Amazon Japan and Bic Camera are showing 11/28 release.  Unfortunately I will be in Seoul from 11/25-12/1. 
 
I didn`t make it to the Onkyo event last Saturday so have nothing to report. 
 
With a release of 11/28, I am sure it will be in the shops to demo this week.  
 
(what the heck happened with LH ? ? ?)
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 7:36 AM Post #1,443 of 16,326
Amazon Japan and Bic Camera are showing 11/28 release.  Unfortunately I will be in Seoul from 11/25-12/1. 

I didn`t make it to the Onkyo event last Saturday so have nothing to report. 

With a release of 11/28, I am sure it will be in the shops to demo this week.  

(what the heck happened with LH ? ? ?)


Nothing as far as everybody that has ordered a GW really, waiting for one 18 months and counting with precious little info while they keep pumping out other products ...
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 5:17 PM Post #1,444 of 16,326
Too bad that balanced outis said to sound a lot better than SE. Not sure I wanna fork over the dough for a boutique 2.5mm balanced for my Oppo PM-3.

Looks like I may wait for impressions to come out and for the Philips/Onkyo headphones made for the DP-X1 to be launched.
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 6:02 PM Post #1,445 of 16,326
Too bad that balanced outis said to sound a lot better than SE. Not sure I wanna fork over the dough for a boutique 2.5mm balanced for my Oppo PM-3.

 
You don't have to spend much. I got these two for my PM-3 to use them balanced:
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PLTXJIU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
The cable fits the recessed jack on the PM-3. You'll just need to remove one of the metal covers on one end (they're made to easily unscrew as shown in the second pic). Gives you a balanced 4-pole 3.5mm on the other end to use with a Hifiman player (in balanced mode) and should also work with the dual ground (pseudo balanced) of Sony's ZX2 and Oppo's HA-2 amp.
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0108HJVG8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
I asked this seller on to make/list an adapter that converts that 3.5mm Hifiman style pinout to an A&K style 2.5mm balanced. Its not just a physical adapter but is internally wired to convert the pinout correctly to what the Onkyo (which matches AK's balanced pinout) will use.
 
The quality of both is ok if you just want a cable that works.
 
OR you can also email John over at www.surfcables.com for a higher quality direct cable. Will likely be more expensive than the above but certainly won't break the bank. His prices are relatively low considering the quality of work he does.
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 9:41 PM Post #1,447 of 16,326
Thanks for the tip on those. And surf cables look to be a pretty nice step up without breaking the bank.


I had PETEREK make me a balanced cable terminated for my PM3, you can ask him for a quote. His work is excellent, and the quality of the cables very high. You would need to see about pricing of course, but I'm sure he would be competitive.
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 7:15 AM Post #1,448 of 16,326
I finally spent some quality time with the DP-X1 today, at the Onkyo/TEAC showroom near Tokyo station. I had no idea this place existed; it is quite comfortable, relaxed and I was one of two customers there.  The new Onkyo and the Pioneer DAPs are sitting out, untethered and you can listen at your leisure.  They have a wide range of headphones to demo, including Onkyo and Philips of course but also a Beyer T5p, that new $2K+ Pioneer, etc.  They also have universal demo units of all 3 of Onkyo`s new CIEMs.  
 
So I was able to put the DP-X1 next to my AK120ii, and compare both in a quiet, relaxed environment.  I was using my own files, with my microSD in the Onkyo.   My IEMs are UniqueMelody Maverick, 10-driver hybrids, with JVC Spiraldot tips and a Spiral Strands 2.5trrs balanced cable.  Wide range of musical genres, but all of it well mastered, `audiophile`, etc.  
 
First the good news: The Onkyo sounds fantastic. In my opinion as good or better than I hoped and probably many of you are hoping.  Soundstage huge, imaging precise, and that same ethereal blackest background a la AK380 - that was noticeable to me immediately.  A good indication of indescribable positive sound quality is that with every track I played, I did not want to turn it off, I wanted to listen to each track until the end. Highly musical.   I would say in the most general sense the DP-X1 sounds better than my AK120ii, from the balanced output.  (The T5p, I headphone I used to own and feel I know well, also sounded fantastic out of the single ended output.)  
 
Another positive is build quality.  It`s definitely on par with the 120ii.  The AK feels more substantial due to its brick-like form and weight, but really, on close inspection there are no shortcomings on the Onkyo. The body is seamless, the display is absolutely flush with the frame, the volume wheel is rock solid, there were no scratches around the USB or headphone outputs on this well-handled unit.   The staff still would not give me any details on included accessories, like a fitted leather case, but one would work very well.  
 
Now, the bad.  The UI is a mess.  Very confusing to navigate around, very frustrating and illogical, counter-intuitive process-flow.  (And I am very very far from being a technophobe and am familiar with many software platforms).  Basically, a lot of hunting, back-tracking and multiple redundancies.  The most serious software issue is that the volume problem I experienced with the demo unit in my friend`s shop a few weeks ago (and reported here) was present with the unit today : the on-screen volume control lags a fraction of a second, so that you end up raising it too high.  Worse, the same lag was coming from the physical volume wheel as well. I  tried again and again and it consistently jumped between 10 and 20 steps on the 160-step volume scale, either up or down.  Turning the volume down, at around 25 it would leap to zero.  The only way to access volume steps in between is to go to zero and then scroll back up.  
 
Worse, I had my ears blasted twice by volume spikes when switching tracks. No explanation for this, just random max volume for an instant, making me very hesitant to proceed.  After two of these initially, it didn`t happen again.  Also, the notification volume (the clicks you hear when you select an icon or button) was super loud, irritating and after setting it to zero it would spontaneously rise in volume again.  There were other bugs : When I wanted to listen to the single-ended T5p, I could not find the control to switch on and off the balance drive, even though I had definitely seen it in a menu.  I called the Onkyo guy over and he could not find it either.  Finally I restarted the DP-X1 and it was re-manifested in the menu where I had initially seen it.  Typical crap IT bug.  
 
Finally, and for me personally, the worst : it seems that in its current version the UI is stuck in permanent Android smartphone mode.  I had assumed there would be some kind of `pure audio` mode that would present to me visually a dedicated music player, like the AKs. Instead, listening to music on the DP-X1 is exactly the same interactive experience as listening to music on my Huawei smart phone.  Worse than my Huawei, there was some extremely irritating process whereby if during listening to music I touched the `back` button one too many times, I was presented with a google search window at the top of the screen, with no way to get rid of except digging back into some menu and re-selecting `Music` .  Maybe some people don`t care about this but for me it is a deal-breaker.  I do not want to look at rows of colorful apps like Yahoo!, etc and have google search windows over my album art, etc.  
 
There is a mode you can switch on called `Stand Alone` mode, which promises to isolate the device for music playback but this function oddly turns the screen instantly off.  Turning the screen back on seems to de-activate this stand-alone function (it was impossible to be sure one way or the other).    
 
Here are some pics I took today.  
 
Lots of variety in which ever English you would like to use.  (Other languages available, of course.): 

 
 
 
 
The `Stand-alone` mode.  If music is playing, it works, I guess, but it instantly turns off the display, so to control the music player beyond the three basic physical buttons you have to de-activate this mode by turning the screen back on.  I guess. 

 
 
 
Hit that back button one too many times and your album art gets overlaid with google smartphone functions, which you cannot turn off without going into a menu and re-selecting `Music` :

 
 
 
So overall my impression is that the unit sounds fantastic and will be the killer we all hope it will be, once they get it optimized.  If this unit, on display in Onkyo`s own show room, is this buggy, then I have my doubts about the 11/28 release date.  The staff there today would not confirm any date, but admitted the UI was not totally stable and therefore the release might be delayed (regardless of what Amazon.jp is saying.)  
 
 
It is important to note that all of my negative experiences today were due to one thing only : un-optimized software.  This is totally fixable, pre-release and post-release through firmware updates. I would definitely buy this DAP if they enable an app-less pure audio firmware mode.  I told them this today and they acknowledged the appeal of that, but frankly told me that Onkyo is counting on the `ecosystem` revenue, ie making money from their E-onkyo media website by direct-downloading content to this DAP, and for that they think people need a familiar interface, ie a smartphone.  
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 7:32 AM Post #1,449 of 16,326
  I finally spent some quality time with the DP-X1 today, at the Onkyo/TEAC showroom near Tokyo station. I had no idea this place existed; it is quite comfortable, relaxed and I was one of two customers there.  The new Onkyo and the Pioneer DAPs are sitting out, untethered and you can listen at your leisure.  They have a wide range of headphones to demo, including Onkyo and Philips of course but also a Beyer T5p, that new $2K+ Pioneer, etc.  They also have universal demo units of all 3 of Onkyo`s new CIEMs.  
 
So I was able to put the DP-X1 next to my AK120ii, and compare both in a quiet, relaxed environment.  I was using my own files, with my microSD in the Onkyo.   My IEMs are UniqueMelody Maverick, 10-driver hybrids, with JVC Spiraldot tips and a Spiral Strands 2.5trrs balanced cable.  Wide range of musical genres, but all of it well mastered, `audiophile`, etc.  
 
First the good news: The Onkyo sounds fantastic. In my opinion as good or better than I hoped and probably many of you are hoping.  Soundstage huge, imaging precise, and that same ethereal blackest background a la AK380 - that was noticeable to me immediately.  A good indication of indescribable positive sound quality is that with every track I played, I did not want to turn it off, I wanted to listen to each track until the end. Highly musical.   I would say in the most general sense the DP-X1 sounds better than my AK120ii, from the balanced output.  (The T5p, I headphone I used to own and feel I know well, also sounded fantastic out of the single ended output.)  
 
Another positive is build quality.  It`s definitely on par with the 120ii.  The AK feels more substantial due to its brick-like form and weight, but really, on close inspection there are no shortcomings on the Onkyo. The body is seamless, the display is absolutely flush with the frame, the volume wheel is rock solid, there were no scratches around the USB or headphone outputs on this well-handled unit.   The staff still would not give me any details on included accessories, like a fitted leather case, but one would work very well.  
 
Now, the bad.  The UI is a mess.  Very confusing to navigate around, very frustrating and illogical, counter-intuitive process-flow.  (And I am very very far from being a technophobe and am familiar with many software platforms).  Basically, a lot of hunting, back-tracking and multiple redundancies.  The most serious software issue is that the volume problem I experienced with the demo unit in my friend`s shop a few weeks ago (and reported here) was present with the unit today : the on-screen volume control lags a fraction of a second, so that you end up raising it too high.  Worse, the same lag was coming from the physical volume wheel as well. I  tried again and again and it consistently jumped between 10 and 20 steps on the 160-step volume scale, either up or down.  Turning the volume down, at around 25 it would leap to zero.  The only way to access volume steps in between is to go to zero and then scroll back up.  
 
Worse, I had my ears blasted twice by volume spikes when switching tracks. No explanation for this, just random max volume for an instant, making me very hesitant to proceed.  After two of these initially, it didn`t happen again.  Also, the notification volume (the clicks you hear when you select an icon or button) was super loud, irritating and after setting it to zero it would spontaneously rise in volume again.  There were other bugs : When I wanted to listen to the single-ended T5p, I could not find the control to switch on and off the balance drive, even though I had definitely seen it in a menu.  I called the Onkyo guy over and he could not find it either.  Finally I restarted the DP-X1 and it was re-manifested in the menu where I had initially seen it.  Typical crap IT bug.  
 
Finally, and for me personally, the worst : it seems that in its current version the UI is stuck in permanent Android smartphone mode.  I had assumed there would be some kind of `pure audio` mode that would present to me visually a dedicated music player, like the AKs. Instead, listening to music on the DP-X1 is exactly the same interactive experience as listening to music on my Huawei smart phone.  Worse than my Huawei, there was some extremely irritating process whereby if during listening to music I touched the `back` button one too many times, I was presented with a google search window at the top of the screen, with no way to get rid of except digging back into some menu and re-selecting `Music` .  Maybe some people don`t care about this but for me it is a deal-breaker.  I do not want to look at rows of colorful apps like Yahoo!, etc and have google search windows over my album art, etc.  
 
There is a mode you can switch on called `Stand Alone` mode, which promises to isolate the device for music playback but this function oddly turns the screen instantly off.  Turning the screen back on seems to de-activate this stand-alone function (it was impossible to be sure one way or the other).    
 
Here are some pics I took today.  
 
Lots of variety in which ever English you would like to use.  (Other languages available, of course.): 

 
 
 
 
The `Stand-alone` mode.  If music is playing, it works, I guess, but it instantly turns off the display, so to control the music player beyond the three basic physical buttons you have to de-activate this mode by turning the screen back on.  I guess. 

 
 
 
Hit that back button one too many times and your album art gets overlaid with google smartphone functions, which you cannot turn off without going into a menu and re-selecting `Music` :

 
 
 
So overall my impression is that the unit sounds fantastic and will be the killer we all hope it will be, once they get it optimized.  If this unit, on display in Onkyo`s own show room, is this buggy, then I have my doubts about the 11/28 release date.  The staff there today would not confirm any date, but admitted the UI was not totally stable and therefore the release might be delayed (regardless of what Amazon.jp is saying.)  
 
 
It is important to note that all of my negative experiences today were due to one thing only : un-optimized software.  This is totally fixable, pre-release and post-release through firmware updates. I would definitely buy this DAP if they enable an app-less pure audio firmware mode.  I told them this today and they acknowledged the appeal of that, but frankly told me that Onkyo is counting on the `ecosystem` revenue, ie making money from their E-onkyo media website by direct-downloading content to this DAP, and for that they think people need a familiar interface, ie a smartphone.  

Impeccable impression!
 
Thanks a lot!
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 8:24 AM Post #1,451 of 16,326
  So overall my impression is that the unit sounds fantastic and will be the killer we all hope it will be, once they get it optimized.  If this unit, on display in Onkyo`s own show room, is this buggy, then I have my doubts about the 11/28 release date.  The staff there today would not confirm any date, but admitted the UI was not totally stable and therefore the release might be delayed (regardless of what Amazon.jp is saying.)  
 
 
It is important to note that all of my negative experiences today were due to one thing only : un-optimized software.  This is totally fixable, pre-release and post-release through firmware updates. I would definitely buy this DAP if they enable an app-less pure audio firmware mode.  I told them this today and they acknowledged the appeal of that, but frankly told me that Onkyo is counting on the `ecosystem` revenue, ie making money from their E-onkyo media website by direct-downloading content to this DAP, and for that they think people need a familiar interface, ie a smartphone.  

 
This "Japanese is futuristic but technologically illiterate" paradox 
confused_face(1).gif

 
Well I'm still hopeful for the 11/28 release, perhaps the issues should have been solved for the newer batches or something. I'm hoping for them to still do a release but immediately do an OTA update like many major android smartphone manufacturers do, prompting an update once it connects to a wifi connection. That way, they can grab more sales and keep the hype going 1 month before Christmas.
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 8:41 AM Post #1,452 of 16,326
@Dopaminer

Thanks for your impressions that sounds great. How does it sound SE? Is the balanced really where the money lies like the other short impressions?

 
The Beyer T5p sounded really really great out of the SE.  Today I only had a balanced cable with me for my Maverick; I usually carry a Bax SE cable but today I had a smaller bag with me and no extra cable, which is too bad because it would have been interesting to compare the balanced vs SE outputs. . . . . 
 
 
   
This "Japanese is futuristic but technologically illiterate" paradox 
confused_face(1).gif

 
Well I'm still hopeful for the 11/28 release, perhaps the issues should have been solved for the newer batches or something. I'm hoping for them to still do a release but immediately do an OTA update like many major android smartphone manufacturers do, prompting an update once it connects to a wifi connection. That way, they can grab more sales and keep the hype going 1 month before Christmas.

 
That paradox applies to more things in Japan than not.  And I totally agree that the problems I encountered today should be fixable by FW updates.  
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 8:49 AM Post #1,453 of 16,326
Nice review! I'm glad that this device sound good. For UI and software I believe they will get better before its release (At least I hope so)

One question: With Onkyo music app, is there an option to show an album art in more colorful way while playing music? Every pics of DP-X1 NPS I saw the album art is shown in the background, zoom in and displayed in dark tone.
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 8:55 AM Post #1,455 of 16,326
The Beyer T5p sounded really really great out of the SE.  Today I only had a balanced cable with me for my Maverick; I usually carry a Bax SE cable but today I had a smaller bag with me and no extra cable, which is too bad because it would have been interesting to compare the balanced vs SE outputs. . . . . 



That paradox applies to more things in Japan than not.  And I totally agree that the problems I encountered today should be fixable by FW updates.  



Thanks :)
 

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