maelob said:

I tried, I probably should have push the issue with pay pal, but indiegogo said no sorry too late, and LH labs said sorry thats not how it works, which I think it was bull.....  I guess I should have complained to paypal but funny the paypal payment was to indiegogo (which had a no refund policy) and not LH (who washed their hands after getting the money).  
talking about loop holes of loop holes and off course no refund after you get it.  so win win for them, no so much for the customer who helped fund their product in the first place. kind of ironic. 

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If you paypal'ed LH Lads less than 45 days ago, you can get refund from Paypal by complaining (to paypal) that there has been no product delivery. You don't need to argue with Indiegogo or campaign creator and your chance of refund is very high within 45 days.

Outside of 45 days, it is up to the campaign creaters - they can refund you if they want (I have received refund from a kind creator 5 months after his Indiegogo campaign ends).

Personally (YMMV), I am usually leery of Indiegogo's "flexible funding" or forever campaigns. At least with Kickstarter, you get 2 more protection - you can withdraw before a campaign ends (even though you paypal more than 45 days ago) and campaign creators cannot receive your money if funding goal is not met (fixed funding goal only). There is also a comment page at Kickstarter, where you may check campaign creator's track record of customer satisfaction (you may take a look at Geek Out's comment page at Kickstarter and judge it yourself).

Ok the new DAC issue is finally sorted. It is so nice and clearly stated in the Perk on the campaign page. Why couldn’t it have been communicated to us with that clarity in the first instance? The initial emails announcing the new chip sent were vague and unsettled backers rather than reassuring them, resulting in a spate of unnecessary discussion and slightly belligerent anxiety.
 
Ok now to the darn case.
 
I actually like that the glass does not come to the edge. I don’t want any sharp edge to hold or snag on anything nor a chippable glass edge…yes even the strongest glass can suffer in daily use and handling. I would actually prefer the case edge to be more rounded than bevelled to make it more confortable to hold. I find some of these new smartphones too wide like Samsung Galaxy and IPhones etc to hold comfrtably in one hand. The width should not make the Wave clumsy. In addition I know this design is several years old but the pic below shows how the Cowon X7 is nicely rounded at all edges. It also has some vety stout discreet silver buttons. Two on one side for volume. One on the other for on/off and in the niddle to light up the screen. The rest is touch face controlled. But what I like is the solid feel of their small sturdy buttons you just press and they don’t feel breakable off or able to wear out through pressing like some smartphone products where the physical buttons deteriorate pretty rapidly, nor can tose bittons be pressed accidently very easily. Oh and since we paid for the titanium and carbon fibre we may as well get more of it on the protective edges than the glass everyone is getting anyway.
 
Dont get angry now folk. It's just a suggestion about my preferences. And I am prepapred to wait beyond the supsoed delivery date for LH to get it right. No not to add any more frills, dear god please no, but just engineer what we have now in the best possible way
 
 
 

tomscy2000 said:

The smartphone control was the one major feature that differentiated the Wave from other DAPs --- the removal of this feature makes it "yet another expensive DAP" to many consumers who don't understand the engineering prowess of LH. The wireless control feature also makes it much more convenient for a large portion of the emergent market for DAPs (namely, Asia: Japan, China, Singapore, Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Taiwan), as much of the younger population is dependent on mass transportation (buses, subway) to travel. Having one device they usually use to browse the internet and message with to control a secondary device that allows for superior sound quality would be a very appealing feature for many potential customers. By removing this feature, they've also removed themselves from a large portion of the potential mainstream user base, essentially forfeiting their goal of getting high-end audio to the masses.

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I must have missed the announcement that stated they've removed this feature. Would you be able to point me to the post or comment that confirms it will not be in our Waves? The last that I read on the topic stated Larry was still intent on including that feature but that it is simply not a priority feature at this time.

gikigill said:

There are 3 confirmations, you have to enter your PayPal password and another confirmation. If you have gone past 4 confirmations, pretty sure you know how you got there.

"I fell on it" only works in front of a physician.

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For me the issue was that I was not clear from the beginning on what I was buying. The first amp perk that was posted in the description they didn't have MONO in the tittle, and somewhere in the description there was a reference to "dual mono" talk. So I honestly thought I was getting a dual mono stereo amp. Later, that night when they posted the S-100 I knew right away I had made the mistake of buying the wrong thing. At that time I immediately contacted IGG and LH and told about my mistake to no avail. By the way I was not the only one confused when they posted the perk, some people where not clear if it was stereo or mono. Anyway I should have waited and asked somebody before pulling the trigger. I fell for the hype of now now now limited time incredible offer of the amp, without taking the time to ask for clarification.

thanks for your comments, I think we are all learning about this crowdfunding process,

axelcloris said:

  I must have missed the announcement that stated they've removed this feature. Would you be able to point me to the post or comment that confirms it will not be in our Waves? The last that I read on the topic stated Larry was still intent on including that feature but that it is simply not a priority feature at this time.

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It's not confirmed in stone that it's gone, but they removed a section of the campaign page that originally explained that the Wave could be controlled via smartphone, and it's now replaced with a big spiel about AOS1. I've not seen anything about Larry being "intent on including that feature" --- from what I see is a lot of noncommital statements from them --- we need to start reading between the lines --- "not a priority" basically means GONE. Frankly, the chances of it being included at launch are next to zero. Smartphone control means they need to line up an app developer to design the app for them --- if they've done that, Gavin would've already made a big deal out of it. Even if they "plan" to add the functionality half a year from launch, a year will change a lot of stuff based on the way this company operates, and so they'll be moving on to the next thing. Besides, not having this feature at launch is a big loss for them. Features available at launch are important for the success of a product. I guarantee people will stop paying attention when the Wave is yet another $500-$2000 DAP. If it doesn't engender aesthetic appeal over the likes of Astell&Kern, Sony, etc. and if the SQ isn't substantially better (how many people can actually tell), then the Geek Wave is just another DAP. Frankly, it's LH's loss. If they believe the rabid audiophile audience will keep them afloat, then so be it, but that completely goes against their publicly stated strategy to bring hi-fi to the masses.

axelcloris said:

   
I must have missed the announcement that stated they've removed this feature. Would you be able to point me to the post or comment that confirms it will not be in our Waves? The last that I read on the topic stated Larry was still intent on including that feature but that it is simply not a priority feature at this time.

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I've not seen a post from LH Labs stating that this was being removed.  I do find it odd that smartphone control was not mentioned as a feature on the "new" InDemand Wave campaign and there has been no response from LH regarding it's inclusion or removal in response the the many posts on that topic.  For now, I have to assume that it will be included.  Hopefully, someone from LH can speak up and clarify if it's still included on the InDemand campaign.  BT and WiFi streaming WILL be supported because there would be no reason to included on the InDemand campaign in the specs for streaming purposes only.  It's just the absence of smartphone control verbiage from the features that has people concerned.

I'm curious about the screen.  The album art on the newest pictures only takes up a small portion and the rest seems to be empty, so what I'd like to know is how much of the glass front will actually be used for the screen? The glass on the front should only be as big as the actual screen itself for the sake of durability and it may mislead some prospective buyers into thinking it is a full-sized touch interface. I'm not sure about this, so maybe Casey can jump on this one.

doublea71 said:

  I'm curious about the screen.  The album art on the newest pictures only takes up a small portion and the rest seems to be empty, so what I'd like to know is how much of the glass front will actually be used for the screen? The glass on the front should only be as big as the actual screen itself for the sake of durability and it may mislead some prospective buyers into thinking it is a full-sized touch interface. I'm not sure about this, so maybe Casey can jump on this one.

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I don't actually think a smaller piece of front glass will be more durable, given that the piece of glass is thick enough.
 
It should be a touch interface, but more of a small screen plus a trackpad type of deal.

tomscy2000 said:

   
I don't actually think a smaller piece of front glass will be more durable, given that the piece of glass is thick enough.
 
It should be a touch interface, but more of a small screen plus a trackpad type of deal.

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If there is a large area of glass that isn't being used for the touch or gesture control, there's no sense in having more than is necessary. A smaller piece of glass will of course reduce the chance of breakage. I'm no physicist, but I would think a smaller piece would have greater torsional strength regardless of the thickness. Besides, it would look silly to only use a portion of the available real estate. I'm not sure what the case is with the GW, but I'd rather have metal than glass in any area not designated for the screen.

I don't see why that cuts the inaccurate or condusing descriptions. OP had a perfectly legitimate reason to cancel because the DESCRIPTION of the perk was incomplete and confusing. If you misread the description you may have a reasonably held belief that you are purchasing something by clicking through the confirmations.

The confusion is caused by the description which may induce someone to think they are agreeing to back something which id not what is actually being offered. At that point, one hundred are you sure confirmations is totally irrelevant.

gikigill said:

There are 3 confirmations, you have to enter your PayPal password and another confirmation. If you have gone past 4 confirmations, pretty sure you know how you got there.

"I fell on it" only works in front of a physician.

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nudd said:

I don't see why that cuts the inaccurate or condusing descriptions. OP had a perfectly legitimate reason to cancel because the DESCRIPTION of the perk was incomplete and confusing. If you misread the description you may have a reasonably held belief that you are purchasing something by clicking through the confirmations.

The confusion is caused by the description which may induce someone to think they are agreeing to back something which id not what is actually being offered. At that point, one hundred are you sure confirmations is totally irrelevant.

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I can also sympathize with the OP regarding the confusing description of the amp perks.  They used the term "dual mono" to describe the monoblock amps.  I think this is extremely confusing and misleading as dual mono refers to separate mono configurations within the same chassis.  The OP isn't talking about accidentally clicking through 3 levels of payment confirmations.

mtruong34 said:

  I can also sympathize with the OP regarding the confusing description of the amp perks.  They used the term "dual mono" to describe the monoblock amps.  I think this is extremely confusing and misleading as dual mono refers to separate mono configurations within the same chassis.  

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Indeed, nearly all of their publicity and promotional materials range from disingenuous to patently untrue. I'd like to believe Light Harmonic can produce a great product, but why should I have the least bit of confidence when their marketing and customer relations are so thoroughly deceptive?

 
 

If Carbon Fibre is good enough for the world's newest modern piano, then it must be good enough for our wave.

bcarr112281 said:

   
Indeed, nearly all of their publicity and promotional materials range from disingenuous to patently untrue. I'd like to believe Light Harmonic can produce a great product, but why should I have the least bit of confidence when their marketing and customer relations are so thoroughly deceptive?
 
 

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While I totally agree there have been some bumps (quite a few on some things) I feel that "disingenuous to patently untrue" and "thoroughly deceptive" are a bit harsh. And we know they can produce a great product - they've proven that with their existing products. 
 
We all clearly see these things differently, which is as it should be, but I personally give them credit for handling a very tough situation and dynamic (of their own choosing of course) with an overall good manner (with room for improvement). 
 
And I do have my fingers crossed that my Pulse Infinity and Wave Ultimate Signature will be as awesome as I hope and that the 'marketing machine' as well as the technical team has promised. 
 
Cheers

Scott,
I'm encouraged to read your much more favorable view of the Geek Wave and company. You are, imho, one of the few fair-minded people, evidently that inhabit this. site. and I welcome your refreshing viewpoint on what may actually be happening with the campaign.
there are, evidently so many who just want something to complain about and I sincerely wish they'd show more maturity.