ZMF Pendant by Ampsandsound; impressions, tube-rolling, and general discussions
Sep 2, 2020 at 2:00 PM Post #76 of 2,583
I have a good selection of EL84 pairs on hand now, so I thought I'd write some impressions for those that are looking for a different combination in the Pendant.

For reference, to my ears the stock JJs are the brightest set by far, and have a brittle, digital sort of sound to them. Not bad, but not my taste.

Genelex Gold Lion (new production): I find these to be similar to the JJs, with just a little more heft in the bass. Also fairly digital sounding. These get good reviews for new tubes, and I was somewhat disappointed.

Sovtek EL84M (new production): These are my favourite new tubes. They have the most natural, realistic sound of the new tubes I've tried, though they are rather shy on the top end. Perfectly fine.

Sylvania branded Baldwin blackplates, 1951: These have a nice bright uncluttered sound, but still smooth. They do have a fair amount of, I guess it's distortion, which give them an old timey sort of sound if that makes sense. I guess they sound of their era.

Mullard 1950's square getter: Lots of internet people say that Mullards are they're favourite tubes, and I can see why. They have a unique sort of pillow-y softness to them, like all the edges of sounds have been rounded. Is that what people are talking about when they say Mullards have a liquid midrange? Otherwise, they're quite neutral.

Uknown Baldwin branded, made in Japan: These are what came in the vintage set from ZMF. From what I can tell, probably they're Matsushita? These have a similar tonality to the Mullards, maybe just a bit brighter, a bit less soft sounding.

Tungsram: Clean, clear, neutral, great open 3D soundstage. These are great if you just want to hear the recording without any colouration.

thetubestore.com Preferred Series 7189: I really didn't know what to expect from these, and only bought them because thetubestore.com is local to me, and the price is right. The website says they're just selected 6P14P-EV from the 80's, which don't seem to get a lot of love overall. However, I have been absolutely blown away by these. Almost as open and clear as the Tungsrams, but with a very forward, detailed midrange that I just absolutely love. They do miss a bit on the top end, but that can be solved with a pre-amp tube. These with LCD-4 give me the best electric guitar sound I have ever heard.

Note that I listen with already pretty dark headphones, so that could be why I generally prefer the more neutral and brighter tubes to the Mullards. Hopefully someone finds this info useful!
 
Sep 2, 2020 at 4:33 PM Post #77 of 2,583
I have a good selection of EL84 pairs on hand now, so I thought I'd write some impressions for those that are looking for a different combination in the Pendant.

For reference, to my ears the stock JJs are the brightest set by far, and have a brittle, digital sort of sound to them. Not bad, but not my taste.

Genelex Gold Lion (new production): I find these to be similar to the JJs, with just a little more heft in the bass. Also fairly digital sounding. These get good reviews for new tubes, and I was somewhat disappointed.

Sovtek EL84M (new production): These are my favourite new tubes. They have the most natural, realistic sound of the new tubes I've tried, though they are rather shy on the top end. Perfectly fine.

Sylvania branded Baldwin blackplates, 1951: These have a nice bright uncluttered sound, but still smooth. They do have a fair amount of, I guess it's distortion, which give them an old timey sort of sound if that makes sense. I guess they sound of their era.

Mullard 1950's square getter: Lots of internet people say that Mullards are they're favourite tubes, and I can see why. They have a unique sort of pillow-y softness to them, like all the edges of sounds have been rounded. Is that what people are talking about when they say Mullards have a liquid midrange? Otherwise, they're quite neutral.

Uknown Baldwin branded, made in Japan: These are what came in the vintage set from ZMF. From what I can tell, probably they're Matsushita? These have a similar tonality to the Mullards, maybe just a bit brighter, a bit less soft sounding.

Tungsram: Clean, clear, neutral, great open 3D soundstage. These are great if you just want to hear the recording without any colouration.

thetubestore.com Preferred Series 7189: I really didn't know what to expect from these, and only bought them because thetubestore.com is local to me, and the price is right. The website says they're just selected 6P14P-EV from the 80's, which don't seem to get a lot of love overall. However, I have been absolutely blown away by these. Almost as open and clear as the Tungsrams, but with a very forward, detailed midrange that I just absolutely love. They do miss a bit on the top end, but that can be solved with a pre-amp tube. These with LCD-4 give me the best electric guitar sound I have ever heard.

Note that I listen with already pretty dark headphones, so that could be why I generally prefer the more neutral and brighter tubes to the Mullards. Hopefully someone finds this info useful!

I'm sticking with Genelex Gold Lions for now. I do like the Sovtek EL84Ms, but switched them out after occasional ringing. The vintage tubes I received are a pair of RCA black plates, but nothing really stood out. I agree with your assessment regarding the JJs. Speaking of JJ tubes, on the input side, I tried the ECC99 and really like them. However, it only sounded good on high-Z. On low-Z it rather sounded thin and less dynamic. Too bad High-z is unusable for me due to loud low level hum. So i'm sticking with the PSVANE 12au7-TII for now on that front. I've tried more than dozen different input tubes and they all either didn't sound good or were noisy. For reference, I used VO for tube rolling.
 
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Sep 2, 2020 at 6:07 PM Post #78 of 2,583
I've also tried the ECC99, and find it much more to my taste than the other JJ tubes. Maybe the most clear, neutral tube I've heard, without that brittle harshness of other JJs. For the price, it is a highly livable tube even compared to many more expensive NOS.

I've been curious about the Psvane tubes, as they're the most expensive and therefore obviously best new production (sarcasm!). How would you describe the sound?
 
Sep 3, 2020 at 5:06 PM Post #79 of 2,583
I've also tried the ECC99, and find it much more to my taste than the other JJ tubes. Maybe the most clear, neutral tube I've heard, without that brittle harshness of other JJs. For the price, it is a highly livable tube even compared to many more expensive NOS.

I've been curious about the Psvane tubes, as they're the most expensive and therefore obviously best new production (sarcasm!). How would you describe the sound?

Price wasn't a determining factor. It sounded best, for me, out of all the 12au7s i've tested, and the least noisy.

It sounds similar to tung-sol ecc803s gold pins, which I really like, but again, couldn't use it because of noise. It's punchy with some good weight, and very clean but not thin/brittle like the JJs. Out of all the 12au7s i've tested, I like it the most. For me, the 12AU7s usually sound too soft or a bit mushy (e.g. new production Mullard) compared to 12ax7s.
 
Sep 4, 2020 at 3:57 PM Post #80 of 2,583
Tungsram: Clean, clear, neutral, great open 3D soundstage. These are great if you just want to hear the recording without any colouration.

There are what I ended up using, the EI El84's are similar though not quite as nice and a bit cheaper.
I also like the PSVane El84's, but they take forever to burn in and change pretty radically over the burn in time.
 
Sep 11, 2020 at 1:07 PM Post #81 of 2,583
I have a tube question that I have read quite aa but about on the forums but am still confused about.
Can you use a 7058 tube as the output tube on the pendant?? It is a 12ax7 family tube but does not work in some preamps apparently. I tried it in the Pendant and it did work. The sound was very detailed but very slightly on the bright side. I don’t want to damage the amp so have pulled it out for now. Anyone have any sage advice in regards to this tube?
 
Sep 11, 2020 at 4:24 PM Post #83 of 2,583
A 7058 is a pre tube not an output. It looks interesting but isn’t compatible with the pendant as it exceed 12.6 fil. Looks like it wants 13+ for its filaments.
You might think about any 5751. Sylvania made exceptionally good ones.
Thanks for your swift response.
I will try to find a Sylvania 5751 at a reasonable price. In the meantime I am using either an RCA cleartop 12AU7 or Genelex Lion goldpin 12AU7.
Changing out the JJ EL84s for Tungsrams has been a major improvement especially in terms of the hum issue in my unit. With Tungsrams that noise is just about gone on hiZ.
Thanks again.
 
Sep 20, 2020 at 4:26 AM Post #84 of 2,583
@ampsandsound / @zach915m

Just curious - Any preamp tube in the 12A_7 family with 12AU7 pinout, that use 250v plate voltage and 150mA heater current is ok to run in the Pendant, yes?
(The 12AU7, 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AY7, ECC81, CV4024, 6201, 7728, ECC801, E81CC...)

I see some tubes that are 150V plate or 225mA heater (or both), like the 12AZ7, 5965, 6829, 12AV7, etc. Are those a no-no, or good to go?

Is there anything else we should be looking at (other plate/heater V/mA) to identify compatible tubes? Or more importantly, incompatible tubes?

(I know the Mu of the tubes I listed are all over the place.)

Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to make sure I don't plug anything in which is bad on the amp.

Thanks in advance for the help!

:grinning:
 
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Sep 22, 2020 at 9:06 AM Post #85 of 2,583
@ampsandsound / @zach915m

Just curious - Any preamp tube in the 12A_7 family with 12AU7 pinout, that use 250v plate voltage and 150mA heater current is ok to run in the Pendant, yes?
(The 12AU7, 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AY7, ECC81, CV4024, 6201, 7728, ECC801, E81CC...)

I see some tubes that are 150V plate or 225mA heater (or both), like the 12AZ7, 5965, 6829, 12AV7, etc. Are those a no-no, or good to go?

Is there anything else we should be looking at (other plate/heater V/mA) to identify compatible tubes? Or more importantly, incompatible tubes?

(I know the Mu of the tubes I listed are all over the place.)

Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to make sure I don't plug anything in which is bad on the amp.

Thanks in advance for the help!

:grinning:

/bump :relaxed:

Hi Justin! =) How ya doin?

@ampsandsound

Thanks.
 
Sep 23, 2020 at 7:25 AM Post #87 of 2,583
Im not sure Id be the greatest help.
If anyone has a tube substitution book handy we could explore.
Since my move, I can't find half my books.
There are a variety of substitution books available for free that I found on the web. It doesn't explore why they are compatible unfortunately.

I attached one, and the data sheets for the 12AU/X/T7 valves.

If I knew what to look for, I could do the research and share it here.
 

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  • 12AU7A.pdf
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Sep 23, 2020 at 6:49 PM Post #88 of 2,583
There are a variety of substitution books available for free that I found on the web. It doesn't explore why they are compatible unfortunately.

I attached one, and the data sheets for the 12AU/X/T7 valves.

If I knew what to look for, I could do the research and share it here.

Amazing; thanks for sharing!

I’m likely to get my Verite & Pendant order sometime next month (I think), and I like the idea of researching and learning as much as I can about tube rolling, but besides lurking in forums, it’s almost like a voodoo black art that can only be learned through (I guess) experience and trial & error. I get that, but the more analytic side of my brain pushes back a bit. “Book learning” can also be fun!
 
Sep 28, 2020 at 9:17 PM Post #89 of 2,583
IMG_20200928_160117.jpg


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Woot woot! Sounds good! Looks good!

Thanks @zach915m ! Love the cocobolo base! It's got character in spades!
 
Sep 28, 2020 at 10:53 PM Post #90 of 2,583

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