ZMF Atrium - new open-back co-flagship

Nov 12, 2024 at 2:08 PM Post #7,096 of 7,711
3. So I guess I'm looking for something that stages big, feels open, has nice weighty bass impact and is fatigue free but does not sacrifice details too much.
From this alone, Atrium Open. Caldera suede ultra perf pad for me gives the largest stage. From everything else you said I'd still say that. When I had the Bokeh Closed and AC I did feel like the Bokeh was sort of a mini AC but, not surprising given the price difference, the AC was just better in every way--wider stage, more detailed, more and better sub-bass so it's the one ZMF I haven't bought yet because I didn't see when I'd reach for the Bokeh over the AC. Still fantastic and I preferred over my beloved Eikon & Atticus when I compared.
 
Nov 12, 2024 at 2:25 PM Post #7,097 of 7,711
From this alone, Atrium Open. Caldera suede ultra perf pad for me gives the largest stage. From everything else you said I'd still say that. When I had the Bokeh Closed and AC I did feel like the Bokeh was sort of a mini AC but, not surprising given the price difference, the AC was just better in every way--wider stage, more detailed, more and better sub-bass so it's the one ZMF I haven't bought yet because I didn't see when I'd reach for the Bokeh over the AC. Still fantastic and I preferred over my beloved Eikon & Atticus when I compared.
I 2nd that. The Ultra Perf has been my goto for the AO for awhile now.
 
Nov 12, 2024 at 4:08 PM Post #7,098 of 7,711
I 2nd that. The Ultra Perf has been my goto for the AO for awhile now.
UltraPerf suede or lamb? Most Atrium fans it seems are liking the suede... Planning to buy a set soon.
 
Nov 12, 2024 at 4:35 PM Post #7,100 of 7,711
I think the Atrium Open would be a good fit based on everything you're saying. I haven't had any listening time personally with the Atrium but I'm working on saving up for one, and I only listened to the Atrium Closed for a little bit at CanJam last year. However, I've read basically all there is to read on here and SBAF about the various ZMF models haha, and from my understanding the Atrium Closed has a bit more aggressive treble than the Atrium and also has pretty substantial sub-bass impact. This makes the Closed a bit V-shaped in relation to the Open.

I found the Atrium Closed a bit fatiguing when I listened to it, with the huge caveat that I had to have the volume turned up louder than I usually would due to all the noise in the room at CanJam, and I also don't know what pads and mesh were on when I listened. I'm somewhat sensitive to upper mids as well so this is a potential concern I have with the Atrium Open, but I'm almost certain that if I found the upper mids to be too much then I could tweak it to my preferences with some combination of solid mesh and Auteur pads. Again, based on everything I've read I think the Open is likely less fatiguing than the Closed for people like us who have sensitivities to upper mids / lower treble. Atrium Open is supposedly super punchy in the mid-bass and I think would have a great amount of impact for hard rock and metal, which is a major reason I'm saving up for it.

Caldera could also be a good choice, but I think Atrium would still be more fatigue-free although both seem to be great all-rounders. My preferences tend to lean to the more visceral (and perhaps unique) presentation of dynamic drivers, but of course Caldera will be the most resolving and is often said to be the least "planar-sounding" of the TOTL planars on the market.

Thanks so much! I’m not gonna lie, the way the AC is described is very tempting but like you said, I think for those genres good mid bass impact is much more important than sub bass presence. At this point I’ll take the most fatigue free ZMF flagship I can find!

Sound stage, note weight, non fatiguing = Atrium Open

Love these headphones, highly recommend them 😊

Sounds good, thanks! I’ve had more people recommend AO to me as an upgrade than the AC!

Good questions! I have all the headphones you're discussing. AO, AC, BC, VC, CC (plus Atticus and Auteur).

First, I hear the VC as you do, great with high studio recording quality, slightly fatiguing and harsh up top with rock/metal (also my preferred genre). I adore my Bokeh and put it and the Atriums on the same level, enjoyment-wise. I'm treble sensitive with tinnitus in both ears, worst in my left. I run an R2R dac and tube amps (Aegis, Stratus, V8 OTL) exclusively.

First, the BC is insanely fun to listen to! Screw technical aspects, the BC just sucks you in and gets your head banging! The Atriums both have that same effect on me. The AO is a slightly more evenly tuned set, with a bit less bass quantity but more balanced upper mids/highs. Not dramatically different from the AC IMO, but you will notice it if swapping back and forth. That being said either is excellent, and with pad/mesh rolling you can get either to sound much more neutral or warm.

Now the really hard question is does having a BC make the AC redundant... that's tough and so subjective. I have both and enjoy them equally. Yes they sound similar, but there's no mistaking one from the other. The AC (stock lambskin pads) is darker, with smoother highs, and more emphasis down low. It is more resolving than the BC, and more expansive sounding. Rolling the stock suede pads in will flip the signature and make it more upper mid focused. Totally different experience with suede pads. I prefer the darker lamb pads myself. It's thunderous! Much like the BC, it hits hard, digs low, and has a visceral bass response. The BC has a more even tuning in comparison. The upper mids/treble are a bit more forward and prominent (using protein pads and radial mesh, my preferred setup). Not fatiguing, but definitely more forward and present. The AC brings the low end more into focus, the BC more vocals/guitars. Both are metal monsters IMO. As for the AO, it's very similar to the AC but with slightly less bottom presence and more mid/high presence. More like the BC, tuning-wise. But better across the board.

I owned the og VC, desert ironwood. I loved it and disliked it (hate to say hated hahaha). On good quality recordings it was amazing. Speed, clarity, dynamics to die for. Just an incredible listen. But...metal....bad quality recordings...headaches and tinnitus! Those metal drives impart a harshness that's not overly problematic unless you have sensitive ears like I do. And with metal they drive me nuts with ringing and fatigue. I have to listen at much lower volume compared to my other sets. So I sold that ironwood. But that was long ago, and my system much improved. Hence I recently picked up another VC, a beautiful stabilized set. And thankfully in my upgraded system they're much easier on my ears. But....still don't like metal/rock on them much. I will listen to it on the VC, but i still lower the volume. And it's not my preferred set for the genre by a mile. Why the long story?

Transition to the CC. I was scared when Zach offered a test unit. I don't like metal drivers, including planars. But no way I'm turning down The Man! He thought I'd like it. I thought Ok, i'll try it, but I know I won't like it. Dam if he wasn't right! I actually love them! I bought that demo unit without hesitation. But lets talk sonics now, as my liking them is out of line with my usual preferences. They're brighter than the VC IMO. There's far more treble energy up top than the VC. So what gives? Somehow, it's smoother and not fatiguing me much at all. And that includes rock/metal. We're talking recorded in a phone booth and the gain turned up to 11, hot and harsh recordings with no bottom end to balance things out. Stuff the VC would shred my ears on. The CC didn't shred my ears. It definitely scared me and made me pucker up! But the anticipated fatigue never came. Huge win for Zach and Dave. To have that much upper mid/treble presence and not be fatiguing is an incredible achievement. And there's a very present bass level to balance things out. It's funny, I ran to my friend who's a huge hifiman guy and tried his collection (while he reveled in mine), and the fatigue was there again. I still hate planars, just not ZMF planars!

Now that we've established the CC isn't fatiguing (to me), lets talk tuning. Compared to the BC/AC, the CC is brighter, thinner, and clearer. It's easily the most resolving headphone in my lineup. It's not thin as a whole, but when swapping back and forth you'll notice it comes across thinner than the others. The bass digs super low and hits hard, but the speed gives it less overall weight, as the decay is very fast. I wouldn't call it analytical as a whole, but compared to the bassy goodness of the others, it's leaning that way. The soundstage is also immense. Less ethereal than the AC, but wider and taller. I do listen to metal on it quite often, but I do sometimes think "I wish I had the BC or AC". I just find them more engaging for those genres. But for blues, jazz, classical, etc they're quickly becoming my go to set.

So how do i personally rank them? AC/BC tie for 1st, CC 2nd, VC 3rd. If you put the Atticus in the mix i'd put it 3rd and move the VC down one. My comments on the AC mostly apply to the AO as well, so just swap AC for AO to get an idea how I feel about them. They're more alike than different, IMO.

Ok to your specific questions (all IMO of course):

And now some questions:
- I know that the Atrium is like a Bokeh on steroids but what about AO vs AC vs Bokeh? How would you rank those three on bass impact, soundstage, detail? - Bass from most to least (overall bass blend, both sub and mid): BC - AC - AO - CC - VC. Soundstage from largest to smallest: AO - AC - CC - VC - BC. Detail from most to least: CC - VC - AO/AC - BC.
- Is the Bokeh just too similar to the AC/AO? Do I need to go with the Caldera to have a collection of complimentary ZMF sound signatures? - Too subjective to really answer. In general if you're looking for variety, i'd go CC. But if you love the BC, the AC is a different flavor of it, and also a blast to listen to. I honestly think if I had to keep two of the three, i'd keep BC and AC and let the CC go. Since metal is my most listened to genre I want the headphones that do it best, and for me that's the BC/AC.
- I've read that the AC is darker sounding than the AO, how are both compared to the Bokeh? Can any of the three be perceived as "fatiguing" in the VC sense ? - In terms of darkness from darkest to brightest: AC - AO - BC. That's with stock pads. Pad swapping can flip that all over the place, so I'll just stick to stock setups. Plus I'm most familiar with the stock pads, I like them best. None will approach the VC's fatigue level. Not even close. Not even the CC, despite having so much treble presence.
- For those of you that listen to rock/metal, which ZMF would your recommendation be for someone who enjoyed such genres much more on the Bokeh than the VC ? - AC all day every day. Try Carach Angren: Franckensteina Strataemontanus for some thunderous double bass blasts. They're epic on both the AC and BC. They make both sets vibrate on my head noticeably. The CC does them well, but the decay is too fast, so though the transient strike is impressive, it decays ultra quick, giving it a leaner overall presentation.

Those are my impressions, based on my preferences. I love warm, moderately fast headphones like the Atticus, BC, AC most. I keep other sets in my lineup for flavor, but gravitate towards those the most.

Woahhh I can’t thank you enough for taking the time for this analysis!! This right here is why I love this place so much, people will go out of their way to help you and when it comes from people like you who share the same musical tastes it’s incredibly helpful! Thanks again!!!!

First of all, I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one having those issues with the VC and rock/metal! I was thinking that maybe the VC shows flaw in my system (I’m due for a DAC upgrade) and that’s why I perceive it like that but I see now that’s not the case. For example, I LOVE a powerful snare hit and snare hits are stunning at first with the VC but after a while it becomes too painful. Same with guitar solos. That’s not to say I don’t like my VC, I absolutely love it and I’ll never sell it but I’ll keep it for very specific music!

Ok, regarding the comparisons, what I gather from your brilliantly structured reply is:

- It’s quite surprising that you rank the BC over the AC in terms of overall bass quantity cause I thought AC is the ZMF bass king. I don’t think I’d want less bass than my BC so the AO ranking third is slightly concerning.

- It seems to me that the AO stands between BC and AC in the sense that it has more mid presence for guitars/vocal similar to the AO but more bass presence similar to the AC.

- Regarding the AC vs AO part it seems that with the AO I’d be giving up some bass (but nowhere near VC levels) for more even/forward mids and a slightly larger stage.

- AC/AO tonality is somewhat interchangeable with pad/mesh setup.

To be honest, the way you’re describing Caldera is quite tempting. To have a pair that does detail/separation that good and be “bright” without being fatiguing and keeping that agile planar bass is a new experience for me. Sounds like a great pair to own in place of the VC actually but that would mean an amp upgrade as well.

Thanks for the Carach Angren recommendation! To give an example of a favourite sing: When I listen to The Way of the Fire by Wintersun (the general release is very dynamically compressed but I have the -2dB master files) on the VC the double bass does not provide satisfactory impact and when I raise the volume so that I can be immersed by the thunderous stereo guitars the ringing begins and I have to turn it down. Switching to the Bokeh everything is instantly better, the bass kicks with extra oomph, nothing offends and I can enjoy the brilliant music. But now something is missing, I’m missing the detail, soundstage and separation I got from the VC and everything sounds a little more blended in. That is why I’ve been considering the pairs we’re talking about!

Certainly lots to think about now! Seems to me that I can’t go wrong with any of those 3 pairs. Thanks again so much for the detailed analysis!!

@PapaIV You say "I'll be selling most if not all of my other headphones and focus on building a collection of ZMF headphones".

I'd say take all the excellent advice above, but also for a moment consider not going all in on ZMF. This hobby is a journey and sometimes I think back to what I could have done differently, what I would tell myself. I first went perhaps too far with Sennheiser, then perhaps too far with ZMF, now sitting pretty far in with Sony. When I look back, I enjoy some Sennheiser, some ZMF, and some Sony; and I ended up selling at considerable losses those that did not sit well with me when I went too deep on one brand.

For those of us fortunate enough to have larger collections, a single manufacturer is not the best solution for enjoyment long term, I found. Just something to think about.

Thanks for the advice! You’re not wrong of course! For quite some time I’ve tried to own 1-2 headphones from different companies, Audeze, Hifiman, Focal etc. But since entering the ZMF world everything else just sounds lifeless and lacking character. For example, if I went ahead and bought the Caldera, it seems to me that there would be no place in my collection for another bright, detailed planar pair such as my Arya Organic. Plus for me ZMF is much more than the sound quality, I appreciate the passion that went into each pair and the artistic point of view of a brilliant mind such as Zach’s. It’s definitely something to keep in mind as I move forward though

Well, I don't have the bokeh or the VC but I do have the AC, AO and CO, none of them sound alike, but share some similarities, the zmf sound house. AC to me is bass monster, not shy on stage and to some spicy highs (not to me). The AO is bigger stage, a little bit more resolving on highs and kicks hard, but sub bass it's a no go compared to the AC or the CO. Now CO can be a bit fattingiging at the beginning. They need some burn in and maybe a pad swap (imo thick pads are the best). Some say CO is the jack of all trades, as it's very resolving, not cold as many planner, as it has body and character, and it goes deep into subbass without being overwhelming.
For hard rock or metal I usually end up listening on AO with auteur lambskin pads and tubes. They are the best for me for that genre. If you go to some very fast metal, like technical or death, maybe the CO speed will be better. But AO gets my vote here. Although and this have been said here many times, you can't go wrong with any.
That's my humble opinion. :)

Edit: forgot to mention, I do use the ha-3a with the co. And to me it's a great match

Thanks for the reply! I do listen to all sorts of metal, both slow and fast and with the Bokeh, which is considered to have the slowest drivers of the bunch I’ve never felt that I’m sacrificing a lot on speed with some faster tracks. I guess my requirements with metal is that impactful rhythm section with sting double bass, good separation and that wrap-around effect you get with ZMFs where guitars just sound huge around you. So this comes down to the least spicy highs between AC/AO so I can pick one of the two and then decide between it and the Caldera!

That’s very interesting about your HA-3A and the Caldera? I guess you’re using medium impedance for it? Does it do justice to that planar bass?

From this alone, Atrium Open. Caldera suede ultra perf pad for me gives the largest stage. From everything else you said I'd still say that. When I had the Bokeh Closed and AC I did feel like the Bokeh was sort of a mini AC but, not surprising given the price difference, the AC was just better in every way--wider stage, more detailed, more and better sub-bass so it's the one ZMF I haven't bought yet because I didn't see when I'd reach for the Bokeh over the AC. Still fantastic and I preferred over my beloved Eikon & Atticus when I compared.

Thanks for the recommendation, the AO seems to be that more popular recommendation. I don’t see when I’d be reaching for the Bokeh either but I’m thinking that the Bokeh is a very useful pair for taking it to work with its excellent case or on vacation etc. To have that amazing ZMF sound everywhere is worth it alone to me! So adding an Atrium to the collection for home listening on my main system doesn’t seem too redundant even if they’re close in tonality.
 
Nov 12, 2024 at 5:02 PM Post #7,101 of 7,711
Ok, regarding the comparisons, what I gather from your brilliantly structured reply is:

- It’s quite surprising that you rank the BC over the AC in terms of overall bass quantity cause I thought AC is the ZMF bass king. I don’t think I’d want less bass than my BC so the AO ranking third is slightly concerning. - Its very close IMO between the two. The BC to my ears brings a touch more mid bass punch, whereas the AC brings more subbass rumble and slam. The AC definitely brings the thunder, it's just focused slightly lower. Still quite epic though, and a nice complement to the BC.

- It seems to me that the AO stands between BC and AC in the sense that it has more mid presence for guitars/vocal similar to the AO but more bass presence similar to the AC. - Yep, I agree and think it's a fair assessment.

- Regarding the AC vs AO part it seems that with the AO I’d be giving up some bass (but nowhere near VC levels) for more even/forward mids and a slightly larger stage. - And a bit more treble as well. It's an overall more evenly tuned headphone from top to bottom. And you'd be giving up mostly the low subbass levels, not as much in the mids. I find the bass very potent still, not giving up much. The closed sets just have the benefit of internal cup reflections and resonance. Easier to pressurize an enclosed space....

- AC/AO tonality is somewhat interchangeable with pad/mesh setup. - Yes. You know you're listening to an Atrium with either, they're very closely related. Not like the og Eikon/Auteur. Those sound like unrelated headphones, despite sharing the same driver.
You're very welcome. I've had so much help here over the years I just have to give back in appreciation. Plus who doesn't love talking about their favorite toys?!?!? I added more context in bold above.

EDIT have both my Auteur and AC at work today and gave The Way of The Fire a run on the AC. I agree, the standard edition that's on Tidal is compressed, there's no dynamic range. I'm turning up the volume to get the bass to really rumble, and it's LOUD! Cool band though, thanks! I'll be finishing my day on them to get a feel for their work. Would love to hear the extended dynamic cut of the album. More thickness and punch would make them sound much more powerful. Great vocalist! He's got really good range, from standard vocals to guttural growls and shrieks. He's reminding me of another band I love that I'm drawing a huge blank on. Similar to Candlemass but more growling, less standard vocals. I'll add it once it comes to me.
 
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Nov 12, 2024 at 5:11 PM Post #7,102 of 7,711
- Regarding the AC vs AO part it seems that with the AO I’d be giving up some bass (but nowhere near VC levels) for more even/forward mids and a slightly larger stage.
For some of us, it's not trading one thing for something else, but rather both "giving up some bass" and more even mids are advantages because many people (including me) perceive the AC as bass monsters. Which I generally like, but sometimes it's too much (I was never saying such words before AC :D )
 
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Nov 12, 2024 at 5:38 PM Post #7,103 of 7,711
You're very welcome. I've had so much help here over the years I just have to give back in appreciation. Plus who doesn't love talking about their favorite toys?!?!? I added more context in bold above.
Great info, thanks again! And yeah talking about it is half the fun IMO 😂

Based on everything I’m slightly gravitating towards the AO, even if it’s only because I’ve only had closed back ZMFs and I’m curious to try an open back for once. The other deciding factor would also be your “darkness” ranking because I’m not sure I would want a much darker pair than the BC, which AC appears to be. And finally, I feel like for our music, unlike EDM, the mid bass impact is more important as most metal productions have little information in the sub bass levels in order to make the whole mix work.

This would lead me towards the final contenders being AO and CO, two very different beasts!

For some of us, it's not trading one thing for something else, but rather both "giving up some bass" and more even mids are advantages because many people (including me) perceive the AC as bass monsters. Which I generally like, but sometimes it's too much (I was never saying such words before AC :D )

Haha yeah I know what you mean, some times with the BC and especially with the protein pads the bass can be too much in slower, bass heavy songs and it just fills the soundstage with those frequencies! That is why I settled on the hybrid pads!
 
Nov 12, 2024 at 6:26 PM Post #7,104 of 7,711
This would lead me towards the final contenders being AO and CO, two very different beasts!
If you go for the CO, then you will probably want to get the mantle mesh if you're treble sensitive.

I have both and I favor the CO. You get all the great technicalities of a Planar, but with all the musicality of a ZMF dynamic.
 
Nov 13, 2024 at 2:34 AM Post #7,105 of 7,711
If you go for the CO, then you will probably want to get the mantle mesh if you're treble sensitive.
Not necessarily. It depends on a few things. Mantle mesh dulls the sound quite a bit, I could only recommend it as a very last resort.
I can see someone finding the CO too intense on SS amps with the stock pads on. I think, it would be very rare for someone finding it too intense on tube amps with the thick pads. Also depends on what exact frequencies the individual is sensitive to.
 
Nov 13, 2024 at 3:54 AM Post #7,106 of 7,711
Looking for some advice! I recently got my second ZMF, the beautiful VC after thoroughly enjoying the Bokeh the past few months. Since both my ZMFs are closed back and since there are some amazing stabilised versions right now I've been thinking of taking the plunge and going with a stabilized Atrium Open, after it was recommended to me by the ZMF elders. The more, however, I read about the Atrium Closed and the Caldera in comparison to the AO the more confused I get! So help me decide my next ZMF. Some points:

1. For me the Bokeh is pure joy, no matter the source. I love the warm but not dark sound, the bass, the fact that I can listen for hours and the holographic stage it provides.

2. I love my Verite Closed (on tubes) as well but I'm finding that I need to be much more careful with what genres I'm listening to with it because the super sharp transients can definitely create a headache with the wrong material (especially hard rock/metal which is my preferred genre). With other stuff I listen to, such as acoustic rock, vocal or even EDM, the VC is divine. Tried pad rolling to the Universe Lamb but so far they sound hollow to my ears compared to the lovely Auteur Lamb.

3. So I guess I'm looking for something that stages big, feels open, has nice weighty bass impact and is fatigue free but does not sacrifice details too much.

4. I've been thinking that the next logical step for me would be the Caldera but a) I'm scared I will have the same "issues" with the upper mids that I have with the VC and b) I've been reading that my HA-3A is not a particularly good match for the Caldera. Happy to go with it if those point are not valid.

And now some questions:
- I know that the Atrium is like a Bokeh on steroids but what about AO vs AC vs Bokeh? How would you rank those three on bass impact, soundstage, detail?
- Is the Bokeh just too similar to the AC/AO? Do I need to go with the Caldera to have a collection of complimentary ZMF sound signatures?
- I've read that the AC is darker sounding than the AO, how are both compared to the Bokeh? Can any of the three be perceived as "fatiguing" in the VC sense ?
- For those of you that listen to rock/metal, which ZMF would your recommendation be for someone who enjoyed such genres much more on the Bokeh than the VC ?

I'll be selling most if not all of my other headphones and focus on building a collection of ZMF headphones only since everything else just sounds thin and lifeless now. Sorry if this is slightly off-topic but since my main options right now are the AO and the AC I thought I'd post it here!

I concur with what people have already said. Sounds like AO is for you. I've not heard the Caldera so take this into account but I think AO is an excellent complement to the VC, especially if you listen to a lot of rock/ metal. It's my favorite headphone for those genres although AC is no slouch at all. I actually found the AC to be a bit brighter and splashier in the upper treble compared to AO. From most to least fatiguing I'd rank them AC = VC > AO, with AC having more overall treble presence but smoother peaks compared to VC which have sharper peaks and more laid back upper mids. You might hear differently though, and different chain, volume etc matters.
Whatever you choose you can't really go wrong when it comes to ZMF :beerchug:
 
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Nov 14, 2024 at 2:12 AM Post #7,109 of 7,711
I’ve really been enjoying my Atrium so far. Had some really great musical listening moments and they have been on my head a lot since I got
them.

I feel as though at times the Atrium is not as clear as I would like it be, sometimes it feels slightly out of focus like a window with streak on it or something. The thing is I think it’s not the headphone it’s my amp, which is the Schiit Lyr+ with a Modi Multibit 2 DAC. The only other amp I had was the RNHP which I sold before getting the Atrium, but it is a very clear and resolving amp compared to the Lyr+ which maybe is more musical in a way.

To be sure I feel the Atrium is a resolving headphone, but maybe because of this I’m hearing more of my chain? Looking to get a higher end amp soon I feel like the Atrium is not driven to its potential. Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts. It’s much appreciated. I have the stock pads and mesh on now.
Well I can corroborate this version, although I don't have any high end amp, but with every step I took up, the music always seemed to open and get less congested. For instance, a big area of trouble for me is the bass. I remember having a topping DAC+amp and getting very upset when listening music with many instruments sharing the same frequencies, and having the feeling of congestion and unable to properly separate them. This has been my main focus upon building my equipment. And yes I can say that it changed totally how I perceive the music now, and how much equipment can make the music resolve in a better way.
 
Nov 14, 2024 at 6:14 PM Post #7,110 of 7,711
I concur with what people have already said. Sounds like AO is for you. I've not heard the Caldera so take this into account but I think AO is an excellent complement to the VC, especially if you listen to a lot of rock/ metal. It's my favorite headphone for those genres although AC is no slouch at all. I actually found the AC to be a bit brighter and splashier in the upper treble compared to AO. From most to least fatiguing I'd rank them AC = VC > AO, with AC having more overall treble presence but smoother peaks compared to VC which have sharper peaks and more laid back upper mids. You might hear differently though, and different chain, volume etc matters.
Whatever you choose you can't really go wrong when it comes to ZMF :beerchug:

Thanks!! Ok this helps me cross the AC off my list as I thought. It’s those sharper peaks that are kind of making the VC a difficult listen for me (like I said with specific genres, the VC is a lovely pair for other genres). In contrast, I can listen to my Bokeh for hours and be totally fine. I’m wondering if this can be pinned down to peaks in the frequency response or whether it’s just the speed and sharp transients that make these two pairs so different for me.

Another thing I noticed is that when listening to the VC on SS this issue was greatly mitigated, making it almost non-existent! I’m wondering if it’s just not a good match with the stock tubes of my HA-3A!
 

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