ZMF Atrium - new open-back co-flagship

[betula]

Guys i want to ask, is Atrium only sound the best with tube amps? Any experience?

Atrium can sound very good on several SS amps, but to my experience tubes add a certain magic to all ZMF headphones bringing everything to life with warmer and more engaging mids. ZMFs on tubes to me just give that 'yes, this is it' kind of experience when everything clicks into place and come alive. SS amps are good, and I imagine many people won't miss anything on SS amps, until they try these headphones on tubes. Then I think (to me at least) there is no going back.

 

[jinxy245]

Guys i want to ask, is Atrium only sound the best with tube amps? Any experience?

I'll say that I've had many wonderful experiences with the Atrium on SS amps. I wouldn't be dissatisfied with the Atrium solely on the right SS, but I'll also say that the best experiences I've had were with tubes. It definitely can depend upon the price tier you're playing in ofc, many amps in the unobtanium realm are more different than better, but in general, dollar for dollar, depending upon preference (etc etc) I've found tubes to be the better bet.

 

[Honeypot]

Guys i want to ask, is Atrium only sound the best with tube amps? Any experience?

You don't need to break the bank to put these babies to sing very well!

I do usually listen them with tubes, but my Flux FA-12 drive them more than well.
As others stated, they sound a bit more refined, precise...

The fa-12 is built on the basis of field-effect transistor, making it sound with density in the low frequency range, and its high frequencies are softened. Which can remind to a vague tube amp description.

Nonetheless, and back to the question. Do they sound best with tube amps? Imho yes.
But it's always a matter of taste.

 

[erics75]

Guys i want to ask, is Atrium only sound the best with tube amps? Any experience?

That's 100% subjective, and hard to answer for another person. Some will say yes, you need tubes to get the Atrium to it's pinnacle of sound. Others will say no, solid state is just as good. What's important is what you like, your preferences. I'd say this, if you generally like solid state amps then there's no reason to think you wouldn't love the Atrium with solid state. If you already lean towards tubes with other headphones, my guess is you'd likely feel the same as well. If you've not had a tube amp before it's tough to guess how you'd like it. It's different for sure. Some love it, like myself. But others like the clean powerful sound of solid state. Tubes can also be powerful and neutral sounding, very solid state like, but still different. It comes down to dampening factor. Most solid state amps have an output impedance of less than 1. The dampening factor is the output impedance of the amp divided by the headphone driver's impedance (300 for the Atrium). With most solid state amps, the dampening factor is incredibly high. Many tube amps have a much higher output impedance, well above 1. Some go as high as 120ohm or higher. Doing the math on 120ohm gives you a much smaller fraction, a lower dampening factor. High ohm dynamic drivers tend to sound really good with lower dampening factors. Doesn't mean you won't love a very high dampening factor, but you do see a trend in many user's preferences. They do seem to gravitate towards lower factors, which coincide with tube amps. And tubes do other things to the sound as well that's harder to quantify. The soundstage of tube amps for some reason seems bigger and more holographic. Some say it's just distortion at work, I don't really know. I just know I like it. The only way to know for sure is to try it and see. A good, cheap starting point is a used Schiit Valhalla 2 with some decent tubes. Compare that to your existing setup and see how you like it. If you think the Valhalla sounds better, then I'd say tubes are in your future, as the Valhalla is just the starting point of the tube world. It's a very nice sounding amp for sure, but leans more solid state than tubey sounding. A used Bottlehead Crack is a very tubey sounding amp if you can grab one for cheap. I recommend the Valhalla mostly because they're easier to find and cheap. I'd avoid trying a hybrid tube amp to start as they don't give you the full tube experience IMO. No matter which way you go, the Atrium is incredible sounding, so sit back and enjoy.

EDIT: I should have added my experience with both amp types, sorry. I love tubes, so grain of salt. But with solid state you hear the high dampening factor. Everything is highly precise and controlled, very tight and fast. I personally find this to sound overdampened. With a lower dampening factor (tubes amps, both OTL and OTC), the drivers have more room to "breathe" if you will. You get a more natural sounding driver excursion. More decay and linger. Notes don't just appear and disappear immediately. It sounds more natural to my ears. Bass has a perfect decay on tubes. On solid state it has wonderful transient strikes, big and powerful, but there's no linger, fast decay, so the sense of weight, from longer decay, is missing. So though it hits hard, it still seems lacking. On tubes the added decay gives that back fill, a wonderful weight, making bass sound fuller and more present. Highs also pick up a sweetness and smoothness that I've never hears on solid state. Tubes for my ears just do treble better, and i'm treble sensitive, so anything that makes my listening less fatiguing is a win. And the Atrium sounds more expansive on tubes. Again, no idea why, but the soundstage expands universally, both in width, height, and dimensionally within. I used to be a huge solid state guy, but once i got my first proper tube amp (Bottlehead Crack), I never looked back. i actually have too many tube amps now hahaha. I keep solid state around for comparative purposes, but they rarely get used.

 

[Honeypot]

That's 100% subjective, and hard to answer for another person. Some will say yes, you need tubes to get the Atrium to it's pinnacle of sound. Others will say no, solid state is just as good. What's important is what you like, your preferences. I'd say this, if you generally like solid state amps then there's no reason to think you wouldn't love the Atrium with solid state. If you already lean towards tubes with other headphones, my guess is you'd likely feel the same as well. If you've not had a tube amp before it's tough to guess how you'd like it. It's different for sure. Some love it, like myself. But others like the clean powerful sound of solid state. Tubes can also be powerful and neutral sounding, very solid state like, but still different. It comes down to dampening factor. Most solid state amps have an output impedance of less than 1. The dampening factor is the output impedance of the amp divided by the headphone driver's impedance (300 for the Atrium). With most solid state amps, the dampening factor is incredibly high. Many tube amps have a much higher output impedance, well above 1. Some go as high as 120ohm or higher. Doing the math on 120ohm gives you a much smaller fraction, a lower dampening factor. High ohm dynamic drivers tend to sound really good with lower dampening factors. Doesn't mean you won't love a very high dampening factor, but you do see a trend in many user's preferences. They do seem to gravitate towards lower factors, which coincide with tube amps. And tubes do other things to the sound as well that's harder to quantify. The soundstage of tube amps for some reason seems bigger and more holographic. Some say it's just distortion at work, I don't really know. I just know I like it. The only way to know for sure is to try it and see. A good, cheap starting point is a used Schiit Valhalla 2 with some decent tubes. Compare that to your existing setup and see how you like it. If you think the Valhalla sounds better, then I'd say tubes are in your future, as the Valhalla is just the starting point of the tube world. It's a very nice sounding amp for sure, but leans more solid state than tubey sounding. A used Bottlehead Crack is a very tubey sounding amp if you can grab one for cheap. I recommend the Valhalla mostly because they're easier to find and cheap. I'd avoid trying a hybrid tube amp to start as they don't give you the full tube experience IMO. No matter which way you go, the Atrium is incredible sounding, so sit back and enjoy.

EDIT: I should have added my experience with both amp types, sorry. I love tubes, so grain of salt. But with solid state you hear the high dampening factor. Everything is highly precise and controlled, very tight and fast. I personally find this to sound overdampened. With a lower dampening factor (tubes amps, both OTL and OTC), the drivers have more room to "breathe" if you will. You get a more natural sounding driver excursion. More decay and linger. Notes don't just appear and disappear immediately. It sounds more natural to my ears. Bass has a perfect decay on tubes. On solid state it has wonderful transient strikes, big and powerful, but there's no linger, fast decay, so the sense of weight, from longer decay, is missing. So though it hits hard, it still seems lacking. On tubes the added decay gives that back fill, a wonderful weight, making bass sound fuller and more present. Highs also pick up a sweetness and smoothness that I've never hears on solid state. Tubes for my ears just do treble better, and i'm treble sensitive, so anything that makes my listening less fatiguing is a win. And the Atrium sounds more expansive on tubes. Again, no idea why, but the soundstage expands universally, both in width, height, and dimensionally within. I used to be a huge solid state guy, but once i got my first proper tube amp (Bottlehead Crack), I never looked back. i actually have too many tube amps now hahaha. I keep solid state around for comparative purposes, but they rarely get used.

I don't really have much time to go into details, neither I have the deepest of the knowledge. But as far as I know, tubes introduce a big array of 2nd order harmonics. Mixing that with the incredibly high difference in the dynamic range, as most power tubes will get over 150v, that's a big amount to draw signal. While power transistors are in range of 5-15v. Now I'm no expert in the topic (although I am digging deeper every day).
But these two fact impact the sound and how it is perceived. Usually as more open and impactful.
Note also, that as the tubes are no "perfect" technology (neither the transistors), the tube is working like a Morse machine sending the signal through a path of electrons (this analogy is a bit weak, but sorry I just woke up from a nap and I'm in a rush). Usually what happens with that, is that as the signal crosses the path of electrons and another trigger should lower and increase the pass of the signal (signal amplitude), that trigger is not quantum perfect, which makes, as the signal is not just a sound, but a bunch of them (instruments) to get a little mix in between them. Like melting with each other. Ever so slightly, but to create an experience, imposible to reproduce by transistors (moved by chemical reactions).

And yes I agree again that it's a matter of taste. Sometimes even of mood.
Having choices is the key. So I would rather have two nice little amps, one being a ss, and another a tube (OTC preferable), than double the money only ss.

 

[Squeaky Scav]

Guys i want to ask, is Atrium only sound the best with tube amps? Any experience?

I think they sound great out of my Singxer SA-1 V2, but I do find they sound slightly better out of my Eufonika H5DS (Eufonika tube amps are a great budget option if you're in Europe). Would be interesting to try it on one of those grail tube amplifiers that cost an absurd amount.

 

[erics75]

I think they sound great out of my Singxer SA-1 V2, but I do find they sound slightly better out of my Eufonika H5DS (Eufonika tube amps are a great budget option if you're in Europe). Would be interesting to try it on one of those grail tube amplifiers that cost an absurd amount.

The Eufonika amps do look nice, i've been dying to grab one here in the states if they ever pop into the classifieds. I'm also curious how they stack up to the more expensive tube amps.

 

[JackarlTwo]

I think the Atrium can sound really good out of both. It depends on what kind of flavor you want. With SS amps they're a bit more controlled and some people will definitely prefer it over tubes. There's something really amazing happening that I can't quite put my finger on when Atrium is paired with tubes. Vocals are more textured and realistic, and every note from top to bottom sound less "digital" if that makes any sense, like the driver is breathing easier. I'd be very curious how they sound with TOTL tube amps and gear.

 

[JackarlTwo]

Sorry, what are the gimbal screws? Something on my AO is also squeaking as well.

The 2mm and 3mm Hex screws, as shown at 1:10 in this video. You can also use the appropriate polish for your unit and lubricate the rings (ZMF recommends Mohawk Penthouse Polish or Martin Guitar Polish).

 

[PapaIV]

Looking for some advice! I recently got my second ZMF, the beautiful VC after thoroughly enjoying the Bokeh the past few months. Since both my ZMFs are closed back and since there are some amazing stabilised versions right now I've been thinking of taking the plunge and going with a stabilized Atrium Open, after it was recommended to me by the ZMF elders. The more, however, I read about the Atrium Closed and the Caldera in comparison to the AO the more confused I get! So help me decide my next ZMF. Some points:

1. For me the Bokeh is pure joy, no matter the source. I love the warm but not dark sound, the bass, the fact that I can listen for hours and the holographic stage it provides.

2. I love my Verite Closed (on tubes) as well but I'm finding that I need to be much more careful with what genres I'm listening to with it because the super sharp transients can definitely create a headache with the wrong material (especially hard rock/metal which is my preferred genre). With other stuff I listen to, such as acoustic rock, vocal or even EDM, the VC is divine. Tried pad rolling to the Universe Lamb but so far they sound hollow to my ears compared to the lovely Auteur Lamb.

3. So I guess I'm looking for something that stages big, feels open, has nice weighty bass impact and is fatigue free but does not sacrifice details too much.

4. I've been thinking that the next logical step for me would be the Caldera but a) I'm scared I will have the same "issues" with the upper mids that I have with the VC and b) I've been reading that my HA-3A is not a particularly good match for the Caldera. Happy to go with it if those point are not valid.

And now some questions:
- I know that the Atrium is like a Bokeh on steroids but what about AO vs AC vs Bokeh? How would you rank those three on bass impact, soundstage, detail?
- Is the Bokeh just too similar to the AC/AO? Do I need to go with the Caldera to have a collection of complimentary ZMF sound signatures?
- I've read that the AC is darker sounding than the AO, how are both compared to the Bokeh? Can any of the three be perceived as "fatiguing" in the VC sense ?
- For those of you that listen to rock/metal, which ZMF would your recommendation be for someone who enjoyed such genres much more on the Bokeh than the VC ?

I'll be selling most if not all of my other headphones and focus on building a collection of ZMF headphones only since everything else just sounds thin and lifeless now. Sorry if this is slightly off-topic but since my main options right now are the AO and the AC I thought I'd post it here!

 

[dbull12]

Looking for some advice! I recently got my second ZMF, the beautiful VC after thoroughly enjoying the Bokeh the past few months. Since both my ZMFs are closed back and since there are some amazing stabilised versions right now I've been thinking of taking the plunge and going with a stabilized Atrium Open, after it was recommended to me by the ZMF elders. The more, however, I read about the Atrium Closed and the Caldera in comparison to the AO the more confused I get! So help me decide my next ZMF. Some points:

1. For me the Bokeh is pure joy, no matter the source. I love the warm but not dark sound, the bass, the fact that I can listen for hours and the holographic stage it provides.

2. I love my Verite Closed (on tubes) as well but I'm finding that I need to be much more careful with what genres I'm listening to with it because the super sharp transients can definitely create a headache with the wrong material (especially hard rock/metal which is my preferred genre). With other stuff I listen to, such as acoustic rock, vocal or even EDM, the VC is divine. Tried pad rolling to the Universe Lamb but so far they sound hollow to my ears compared to the lovely Auteur Lamb.

3. So I guess I'm looking for something that stages big, feels open, has nice weighty bass impact and is fatigue free but does not sacrifice details too much.

4. I've been thinking that the next logical step for me would be the Caldera but a) I'm scared I will have the same "issues" with the upper mids that I have with the VC and b) I've been reading that my HA-3A is not a particularly good match for the Caldera. Happy to go with it if those point are not valid.

And now some questions:
- I know that the Atrium is like a Bokeh on steroids but what about AO vs AC vs Bokeh? How would you rank those three on bass impact, soundstage, detail?
- Is the Bokeh just too similar to the AC/AO? Do I need to go with the Caldera to have a collection of complimentary ZMF sound signatures?
- I've read that the AC is darker sounding than the AO, how are both compared to the Bokeh? Can any of the three be perceived as "fatiguing" in the VC sense ?
- For those of you that listen to rock/metal, which ZMF would your recommendation be for someone who enjoyed such genres much more on the Bokeh than the VC ?

I'll be selling most if not all of my other headphones and focus on building a collection of ZMF headphones only since everything else just sounds thin and lifeless now. Sorry if this is slightly off-topic but since my main options right now are the AO and the AC I thought I'd post it here!

I think the Atrium Open would be a good fit based on everything you're saying. I haven't had any listening time personally with the Atrium but I'm working on saving up for one, and I only listened to the Atrium Closed for a little bit at CanJam last year. However, I've read basically all there is to read on here and SBAF about the various ZMF models haha, and from my understanding the Atrium Closed has a bit more aggressive treble than the Atrium and also has pretty substantial sub-bass impact. This makes the Closed a bit V-shaped in relation to the Open.

I found the Atrium Closed a bit fatiguing when I listened to it, with the huge caveat that I had to have the volume turned up louder than I usually would due to all the noise in the room at CanJam, and I also don't know what pads and mesh were on when I listened. I'm somewhat sensitive to upper mids as well so this is a potential concern I have with the Atrium Open, but I'm almost certain that if I found the upper mids to be too much then I could tweak it to my preferences with some combination of solid mesh and Auteur pads. Again, based on everything I've read I think the Open is likely less fatiguing than the Closed for people like us who have sensitivities to upper mids / lower treble. Atrium Open is supposedly super punchy in the mid-bass and I think would have a great amount of impact for hard rock and metal, which is a major reason I'm saving up for it.

Caldera could also be a good choice, but I think Atrium would still be more fatigue-free although both seem to be great all-rounders. My preferences tend to lean to the more visceral (and perhaps unique) presentation of dynamic drivers, but of course Caldera will be the most resolving and is often said to be the least "planar-sounding" of the TOTL planars on the market.

 

[goldwerger]

Now I'm no expert in the topic

Neither am I…

tubes introduce a big array of 2nd order harmonics

…this happens with single-ended class A tube amps, mostly with triodes.

I'm looking for something that stages big, feels open, has nice weighty bass impact and is fatigue free but does not sacrifice details too much

I've been thinking that the next logical step for me would be the Caldera but a) I'm scared I will have the same "issues" with the upper mids that I have with the VC

Sound stage, note weight, non fatiguing = Atrium Open

Love these headphones, highly recommend them

 

[erics75]

Looking for some advice! I recently got my second ZMF, the beautiful VC after thoroughly enjoying the Bokeh the past few months. Since both my ZMFs are closed back and since there are some amazing stabilised versions right now I've been thinking of taking the plunge and going with a stabilized Atrium Open, after it was recommended to me by the ZMF elders. The more, however, I read about the Atrium Closed and the Caldera in comparison to the AO the more confused I get! So help me decide my next ZMF. Some points:

1. For me the Bokeh is pure joy, no matter the source. I love the warm but not dark sound, the bass, the fact that I can listen for hours and the holographic stage it provides.

2. I love my Verite Closed (on tubes) as well but I'm finding that I need to be much more careful with what genres I'm listening to with it because the super sharp transients can definitely create a headache with the wrong material (especially hard rock/metal which is my preferred genre). With other stuff I listen to, such as acoustic rock, vocal or even EDM, the VC is divine. Tried pad rolling to the Universe Lamb but so far they sound hollow to my ears compared to the lovely Auteur Lamb.

3. So I guess I'm looking for something that stages big, feels open, has nice weighty bass impact and is fatigue free but does not sacrifice details too much.

4. I've been thinking that the next logical step for me would be the Caldera but a) I'm scared I will have the same "issues" with the upper mids that I have with the VC and b) I've been reading that my HA-3A is not a particularly good match for the Caldera. Happy to go with it if those point are not valid.

And now some questions:
- I know that the Atrium is like a Bokeh on steroids but what about AO vs AC vs Bokeh? How would you rank those three on bass impact, soundstage, detail?
- Is the Bokeh just too similar to the AC/AO? Do I need to go with the Caldera to have a collection of complimentary ZMF sound signatures?
- I've read that the AC is darker sounding than the AO, how are both compared to the Bokeh? Can any of the three be perceived as "fatiguing" in the VC sense ?
- For those of you that listen to rock/metal, which ZMF would your recommendation be for someone who enjoyed such genres much more on the Bokeh than the VC ?

I'll be selling most if not all of my other headphones and focus on building a collection of ZMF headphones only since everything else just sounds thin and lifeless now. Sorry if this is slightly off-topic but since my main options right now are the AO and the AC I thought I'd post it here!

Good questions! I have all the headphones you're discussing. AO, AC, BC, VC, CC (plus Atticus and Auteur).

First, I hear the VC as you do, great with high studio recording quality, slightly fatiguing and harsh up top with rock/metal (also my preferred genre). I adore my Bokeh and put it and the Atriums on the same level, enjoyment-wise. I'm treble sensitive with tinnitus in both ears, worst in my left. I run an R2R dac and tube amps (Aegis, Stratus, V8 OTL) exclusively.

First, the BC is insanely fun to listen to! Screw technical aspects, the BC just sucks you in and gets your head banging! The Atriums both have that same effect on me. The AO is a slightly more evenly tuned set, with a bit less bass quantity but more balanced upper mids/highs. Not dramatically different from the AC IMO, but you will notice it if swapping back and forth. That being said either is excellent, and with pad/mesh rolling you can get either to sound much more neutral or warm.

Now the really hard question is does having a BC make the AC redundant... that's tough and so subjective. I have both and enjoy them equally. Yes they sound similar, but there's no mistaking one from the other. The AC (stock lambskin pads) is darker, with smoother highs, and more emphasis down low. It is more resolving than the BC, and more expansive sounding. Rolling the stock suede pads in will flip the signature and make it more upper mid focused. Totally different experience with suede pads. I prefer the darker lamb pads myself. It's thunderous! Much like the BC, it hits hard, digs low, and has a visceral bass response. The BC has a more even tuning in comparison. The upper mids/treble are a bit more forward and prominent (using protein pads and radial mesh, my preferred setup). Not fatiguing, but definitely more forward and present. The AC brings the low end more into focus, the BC more vocals/guitars. Both are metal monsters IMO. As for the AO, it's very similar to the AC but with slightly less bottom presence and more mid/high presence. More like the BC, tuning-wise. But better across the board.

I owned the og VC, desert ironwood. I loved it and disliked it (hate to say hated hahaha). On good quality recordings it was amazing. Speed, clarity, dynamics to die for. Just an incredible listen. But...metal....bad quality recordings...headaches and tinnitus! Those metal drives impart a harshness that's not overly problematic unless you have sensitive ears like I do. And with metal they drive me nuts with ringing and fatigue. I have to listen at much lower volume compared to my other sets. So I sold that ironwood. But that was long ago, and my system much improved. Hence I recently picked up another VC, a beautiful stabilized set. And thankfully in my upgraded system they're much easier on my ears. But....still don't like metal/rock on them much. I will listen to it on the VC, but i still lower the volume. And it's not my preferred set for the genre by a mile. Why the long story?

Transition to the CC. I was scared when Zach offered a test unit. I don't like metal drivers, including planars. But no way I'm turning down The Man! He thought I'd like it. I thought Ok, i'll try it, but I know I won't like it. Dam if he wasn't right! I actually love them! I bought that demo unit without hesitation. But lets talk sonics now, as my liking them is out of line with my usual preferences. They're brighter than the VC IMO. There's far more treble energy up top than the VC. So what gives? Somehow, it's smoother and not fatiguing me much at all. And that includes rock/metal. We're talking recorded in a phone booth and the gain turned up to 11, hot and harsh recordings with no bottom end to balance things out. Stuff the VC would shred my ears on. The CC didn't shred my ears. It definitely scared me and made me pucker up! But the anticipated fatigue never came. Huge win for Zach and Dave. To have that much upper mid/treble presence and not be fatiguing is an incredible achievement. And there's a very present bass level to balance things out. It's funny, I ran to my friend who's a huge hifiman guy and tried his collection (while he reveled in mine), and the fatigue was there again. I still hate planars, just not ZMF planars!

Now that we've established the CC isn't fatiguing (to me), lets talk tuning. Compared to the BC/AC, the CC is brighter, thinner, and clearer. It's easily the most resolving headphone in my lineup. It's not thin as a whole, but when swapping back and forth you'll notice it comes across thinner than the others. The bass digs super low and hits hard, but the speed gives it less overall weight, as the decay is very fast. I wouldn't call it analytical as a whole, but compared to the bassy goodness of the others, it's leaning that way. The soundstage is also immense. Less ethereal than the AC, but wider and taller. I do listen to metal on it quite often, but I do sometimes think "I wish I had the BC or AC". I just find them more engaging for those genres. But for blues, jazz, classical, etc they're quickly becoming my go to set.

So how do i personally rank them? AC/BC tie for 1st, CC 2nd, VC 3rd. If you put the Atticus in the mix i'd put it 3rd and move the VC down one. My comments on the AC mostly apply to the AO as well, so just swap AC for AO to get an idea how I feel about them. They're more alike than different, IMO.

Ok to your specific questions (all IMO of course):

And now some questions:
- I know that the Atrium is like a Bokeh on steroids but what about AO vs AC vs Bokeh? How would you rank those three on bass impact, soundstage, detail? - Bass from most to least (overall bass blend, both sub and mid): BC - AC - AO - CC - VC. Soundstage from largest to smallest: AO - AC - CC - VC - BC. Detail from most to least: CC - VC - AO/AC - BC.
- Is the Bokeh just too similar to the AC/AO? Do I need to go with the Caldera to have a collection of complimentary ZMF sound signatures? - Too subjective to really answer. In general if you're looking for variety, i'd go CC. But if you love the BC, the AC is a different flavor of it, and also a blast to listen to. I honestly think if I had to keep two of the three, i'd keep BC and AC and let the CC go. Since metal is my most listened to genre I want the headphones that do it best, and for me that's the BC/AC.
- I've read that the AC is darker sounding than the AO, how are both compared to the Bokeh? Can any of the three be perceived as "fatiguing" in the VC sense ? - In terms of darkness from darkest to brightest: AC - AO - BC. That's with stock pads. Pad swapping can flip that all over the place, so I'll just stick to stock setups. Plus I'm most familiar with the stock pads, I like them best. None will approach the VC's fatigue level. Not even close. Not even the CC, despite having so much treble presence.
- For those of you that listen to rock/metal, which ZMF would your recommendation be for someone who enjoyed such genres much more on the Bokeh than the VC ? - AC all day every day. Try Carach Angren: Franckensteina Strataemontanus for some thunderous double bass blasts. They're epic on both the AC and BC. They make both sets vibrate on my head noticeably. The CC does them well, but the decay is too fast, so though the transient strike is impressive, it decays ultra quick, giving it a leaner overall presentation.

Those are my impressions, based on my preferences. I love warm, moderately fast headphones like the Atticus, BC, AC most. I keep other sets in my lineup for flavor, but gravitate towards those the most.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

@PapaIV You say "I'll be selling most if not all of my other headphones and focus on building a collection of ZMF headphones".

I'd say take all the excellent advice above, but also for a moment consider not going all in on ZMF. This hobby is a journey and sometimes I think back to what I could have done differently, what I would tell myself. I first went perhaps too far with Sennheiser, then perhaps too far with ZMF, now sitting pretty far in with Sony. When I look back, I enjoy some Sennheiser, some ZMF, and some Sony; and I ended up selling at considerable losses those that did not sit well with me when I went too deep on one brand.

For those of us fortunate enough to have larger collections, a single manufacturer is not the best solution for enjoyment long term, I found. Just something to think about.

 

[Honeypot]

Looking for some advice! I recently got my second ZMF, the beautiful VC after thoroughly enjoying the Bokeh the past few months. Since both my ZMFs are closed back and since there are some amazing stabilised versions right now I've been thinking of taking the plunge and going with a stabilized Atrium Open, after it was recommended to me by the ZMF elders. The more, however, I read about the Atrium Closed and the Caldera in comparison to the AO the more confused I get! So help me decide my next ZMF. Some points:

1. For me the Bokeh is pure joy, no matter the source. I love the warm but not dark sound, the bass, the fact that I can listen for hours and the holographic stage it provides.

2. I love my Verite Closed (on tubes) as well but I'm finding that I need to be much more careful with what genres I'm listening to with it because the super sharp transients can definitely create a headache with the wrong material (especially hard rock/metal which is my preferred genre). With other stuff I listen to, such as acoustic rock, vocal or even EDM, the VC is divine. Tried pad rolling to the Universe Lamb but so far they sound hollow to my ears compared to the lovely Auteur Lamb.

3. So I guess I'm looking for something that stages big, feels open, has nice weighty bass impact and is fatigue free but does not sacrifice details too much.

4. I've been thinking that the next logical step for me would be the Caldera but a) I'm scared I will have the same "issues" with the upper mids that I have with the VC and b) I've been reading that my HA-3A is not a particularly good match for the Caldera. Happy to go with it if those point are not valid.

And now some questions:
- I know that the Atrium is like a Bokeh on steroids but what about AO vs AC vs Bokeh? How would you rank those three on bass impact, soundstage, detail?
- Is the Bokeh just too similar to the AC/AO? Do I need to go with the Caldera to have a collection of complimentary ZMF sound signatures?
- I've read that the AC is darker sounding than the AO, how are both compared to the Bokeh? Can any of the three be perceived as "fatiguing" in the VC sense ?
- For those of you that listen to rock/metal, which ZMF would your recommendation be for someone who enjoyed such genres much more on the Bokeh than the VC ?

I'll be selling most if not all of my other headphones and focus on building a collection of ZMF headphones only since everything else just sounds thin and lifeless now. Sorry if this is slightly off-topic but since my main options right now are the AO and the AC I thought I'd post it here!

Well, I don't have the bokeh or the VC but I do have the AC, AO and CO, none of them sound alike, but share some similarities, the zmf sound house. AC to me is bass monster, not shy on stage and to some spicy highs (not to me). The AO is bigger stage, a little bit more resolving on highs and kicks hard, but sub bass it's a no go compared to the AC or the CO. Now CO can be a bit fattingiging at the beginning. They need some burn in and maybe a pad swap (imo thick pads are the best). Some say CO is the jack of all trades, as it's very resolving, not cold as many planner, as it has body and character, and it goes deep into subbass without being overwhelming.
For hard rock or metal I usually end up listening on AO with auteur lambskin pads and tubes. They are the best for me for that genre. If you go to some very fast metal, like technical or death, maybe the CO speed will be better. But AO gets my vote here. Although and this have been said here many times, you can't go wrong with any.
That's my humble opinion.

Edit: forgot to mention, I do use the ha-3a with the co. And to me it's a great match