ZiShan T1 Hi-Fi Player Thread

Is this the best DAP under $100?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 23.3%
  • No

    Votes: 20 27.4%
  • Way above the price range!

    Votes: 6 8.2%
  • Could be

    Votes: 30 41.1%

  • Total voters
    73
Sep 11, 2019 at 4:06 PM Post #331 of 652
LOL.
I can't really think how the back cover is joined only by double-sided tape...I don't dare remove it...could they have put a screw or two?

Most likely it wasn't in the 3D printer casing to have a screw port so they were like eff it we’ll use double sided tape. It is pretty funny though.

At best you getting less than 2v on the T1 but it would be awesome if you tested it for the thread as feedback! I get my T1 tomorrow. I have mixed feelings about it now based on what I am reading. Iol.
 
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Sep 11, 2019 at 10:32 PM Post #334 of 652
Hello,
Thanks for the heads up. I will try it soon.

Ice, Ice Frosty we will need to collaborate and listen with what's new wit the new firmware? Can you ask your trusted source?

It would be interesting to see how the T1 Ak4490eq performs in terms of power supply since the Ak4490eq requires less current supply and voltage compared to the Ak4497 and the ak4493 2x.

Once the power supply issues are known the very best next step would be to remedy them as best as possible.

Keep in mind that series circuitry that has off shoots to different voltage supplies and current requirements (microprocessors, op amps, cpu, lcd, clock, etc demands) results into diminishing returns in the output power voltage/current of any load.
 
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Sep 11, 2019 at 10:59 PM Post #335 of 652
Have you determined which DAP/DAC/Amp devices have the best quality of DC boost converters?
I've been looking at off the shelf 3VDC to ±12VDC or ±15VDC boost converters, and it looks like most them are only able to supply about 150mA on the negative rail.
The ones that have higher output current, need at least 5VDC on their input - so they won't run from a 3.7V Li-Ion battery.

I guess I need to do some sort of power analysis, to see how much power the op-amps actually need, to work best in my DAP/DAC/Amps.
I did not look into this, sorry.

Zishan DSD and T1 use DC-DC boost converter to derive stable 6V from the battery and this is what 9V DC-DC converter and LDOs are powered from. Adding a cap on the output of this first stage could improve short-term power demand handling.

Unlike DSD T1 does not have bulk smoothing power caps or inductors on the rails, so opamps and buffers power would be a bit noisier and may not be able to handle peak current as easily, but it should not be too tricky to add smoothing/filtering caps to opamps and even transistors supply pins (I considered the latter but could not find time to implement).

@Merlin-PT did current consumption measurements of 9V rails, off the top of my memory it was below 100mA even on heavier loads.
 
Sep 12, 2019 at 4:25 AM Post #340 of 652
I fell asleep with my t1 turned on and playing last night. Luckily I woke up after few hours and could not even hold it in my hand, it was burning hot. The sound quality setting was on default btw.
I'm kind of terrified to use it for a longer time now...
 
Sep 12, 2019 at 6:24 AM Post #342 of 652
Ice, Ice Frosty we will need to collaborate and listen with what's new wit the new firmware? Can you ask your trusted source?

It would be interesting to see how the T1 Ak4490eq performs in terms of power supply since the Ak4490eq requires less current supply and voltage compared to the Ak4497 and the ak4493 2x.

Once the power supply issues are known the very best next step would be to remedy them as best as possible.

Keep in mind that series circuitry that has off shoots to different voltage supplies and current requirements (microprocessors, op amps, cpu, lcd, clock, etc demands) results into diminishing returns in the output power voltage/current of any load.
I see.
I'll do what I can, SlowMan.
I did not look into this, sorry.

Zishan DSD and T1 use DC-DC boost converter to derive stable 6V from the battery and this is what 9V DC-DC converter and LDOs are powered from. Adding a cap on the output of this first stage could improve short-term power demand handling.

Unlike DSD T1 does not have bulk smoothing power caps or inductors on the rails, so opamps and buffers power would be a bit noisier and may not be able to handle peak current as easily, but it should not be too tricky to add smoothing/filtering caps to opamps and even transistors supply pins (I considered the latter but could not find time to implement).

@Merlin-PT did current consumption measurements of 9V rails, off the top of my memory it was below 100mA even on heavier loads.
So the bulk sanyo ft caps (and other nichicon gold caps) are really affecting the sound? I knew that the T1 won't sound the same as the DSD (a friend of mine says the T1 'loses something in the process of the circuit").
It's also a bit sad that the there's not much of capacitors for modifying.

Based on my opinion, among all the Zishan players, the DSD versions have the best implementation. Seems that to me, the Zishan DSD is the price-to-performance DAP under $100
I fell asleep with my t1 turned on and playing last night. Luckily I woke up after few hours and could not even hold it in my hand, it was burning hot. The sound quality setting was on default btw.
I'm kind of terrified to use it for a longer time now...
Well, the T1 does gets warm pretty fast and even gets hot while using it for more than 30 minutes if you didn't place it on the floor (this is the best way to cool down a Zishan player).

My suggestion is, if you're using it on the bed, use the sleep timer. This option is really useful for devices like Zishan. Set the sleep timer to 30 minutes or an hour. That way, if you were fell asleep, your T1 can have rest based on the setting that you set. So, when you wake up, the T1 is probably already turned off (and battery still remains)

Hopes this help
 
Sep 12, 2019 at 7:22 AM Post #343 of 652
Unlike DSD T1 does not have bulk smoothing power caps or inductors on the rails, so opamps and buffers power would be a bit noisier and may not be able to handle peak current as easily, but it should not be too tricky to add smoothing/filtering caps to opamps and even transistors supply pins (I considered the latter but could not find time to implement).

So the bulk sanyo ft caps (and other nichicon gold caps) are really affecting the sound? I knew that the T1 won't sound the same as the DSD (a friend of mine says the T1 'loses something in the process of the circuit").
It's also a bit sad that the there's not much of capacitors for modifying.

He actually removed the power caps and both high and low pass filters along with the outcaps and inductors and stated on the Zishan Corner he wasn’t looking back in favor of Op amps as buffers, filters, inductors, etc. It’s odd that he would flip his position on this in comparison to the T1 circuitry??

Not sure if the Opa1622 is Class D Amplifier but I'm guess this was his approach??

”So how does a Class-D amplifier work, then? The answer is that they grab the bull by the horns and instead of moving the frequency UP, they move it DOWN. Using a sigma-delta modulator a Class-D amplifier remodulates the incoming signal to a lower sample rate than that of DSD, but to preserve the integrity of the signal it uses a bit depth of more than 1-bit. I don’t want to get too technical at this point, but how it does that takes it into a different realm. It increases the effective bit depth not by using it to encode the intensity of the pulse in the waveform, but instead the width of the pulse. In effect it encodes the output of the sigma-data modulator not in with “Pulse Density Modulation” representation (which is what DSD is) but with a “Pulse Width Modulation” (PWM) representation.”

However, the MSOP and filters deal with higher frequency in the Delta Sigma DAC like the DSD Zishan circuitry does.

The peak current isn’t limited nor regulated by the power caps anyway. The stability of the limited bh Msop 8 pin on the DSD DAC is what limits the current peaks on what ceramic outcaps minimum requirements usually needs low esr ceramic caps to make the chip stable at 0.1-1uf depending what the datasheet says it needs. It's the same with the LDOs as well btw with the ceramic outcaps as well like the lp5907 mod.

”The LP5907 is a low-noise LDO that can supply up to 250 mA output current. Designed to meet the requirements of RF and analog circuits, the LP5907 device provides low noise, high PSRR, low quiescent current, and low line or load transient response figures. Using new innovative design techniques, the LP5907 offers class-leading noise performance without a noise bypass capacitor and the ability for remote output capacitor placement.

The device is designed to work with a 1-μF input and a 1-μF output ceramic capacitor (no separate noise bypass capacitor is required).
This device is available with fixed output voltages from 1.2 V to 4.5 V in 25-mV steps.”
 
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Sep 12, 2019 at 8:00 AM Post #344 of 652
So the bulk sanyo ft caps (and other nichicon gold caps) are really affecting the sound? I knew that the T1 won't sound the same as the DSD (a friend of mine says the T1 'loses something in the process of the circuit").
It's also a bit sad that the there's not much of capacitors for modifying.
They are, but let me clarify (as there are some extremely confused somewhat irrelevant yet strong opinions being voiced here, facepalm): T1 utilises very similar DC blocking electrolytic "output" capacitors to AK4497 based DSD.

These are in the audio path and are a part of basic "go to" modding approach, juggling these produces a range of colourations that allow to match sound to earphones or personal preferences. There's few examples of these mods performed on T1 on twitter, including using tantalum capacitors, check them out.

T1 is different to DSD as the power "bulk" capacitors (x6, 3 for + and 3 for - rails) are absent, these are not in the audio path and they provide opamps and output buffer transistors with current on demand when the current is drawn abruptly and could not be provided by DC-DC convertor that supplies 9V voltage fast enough (e.g. kick drum hit or a bass drop). If the current demand could not be satisfied, voltage drops, and this is where power caps kick in and provide current until DC-DC convertor catches up and its output current (and voltage) recovers, recharging those power caps along the way. This could be mitigated by adding extra caps near opamps supply pins, but in stock T1 MAY produce distortion or have lukewarm dynamics in bass/sub-bass, at least potentially.

Panasonic FT series were used as a replacement of "bulk" power caps in DSD to have larger "pool" of current available and reduce ESR (responsiveness, speed of current supply on demand) even further (I have these replaced by 4 larger through the hole caps in one DSD and left stock ones in another), while a range of other caps where used as DC blocking output caps, I am the last person to comment on those since I removed them and never looked back as in my opinion the best colouration DC blocking capacitors produce is when they are absent :L3000:
 
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