ZiShan DSDs HiFi Player Thread

[fabien32]

upsample the output at 176/32

Maybe this is something you could suggest to Zishan to do in all there DSD, so we could all benefit from it.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Maybe this is something you could suggest to Zishan to do in all there DSD, so we could all benefit from it.

Well, it’s already overheating with the Ak4499 and adding more processing power would require the circuit to be more complex. You would also have to add more batter power, add ram and a better and faster CPU multi-core processor. It can be done and the ones on the market cost about 1500 and above US dollars.

However, I would love to see the Ak4118 decoder implemented! Its more “native” to the already flexible AKM chips!

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Me thinks you needs more multi core processor to get the heat down and to have the ak4499 Chip play amazing at its peaks!

in my experience, the Zishan dsds ak4499 sounds great but it does lag and gets hot because it requires a lot of processing power especially with higher Res files!

The Ashton& Kern flagship has two ak4499 with a octa-core Cpu but it cost $3,500 US!
Zishan are awesome because you can get close to this at such a low budget!

“The A&ultima SP2000 is equipped with an octa-core CPU which allows the player to produce the exact details present in the original recording without distortion and provides a quick, lag-free operation.”

https://us.astellnkern.com/products/a-ultima-sp2000

 

[fabien32]

Me thinks you needs more multi core processor to get the heat down and to have the ak4499 Chip play amazing at its peaks!



in my experience, the Zishan dsds ak4499 sounds great but it does lag and gets hot because it requires a lot of processing power especially with higher Res files!

The Ashton& Kern flagship has two ak4499 with a octa-core Cpu but it cost $3,500 US!
Zishan are awesome because you can get close to this at such a low budget!

“The A&ultima SP2000 is equipped with an octa-core CPU which allows the player to produce the exact details present in the original recording without distortion and provides a quick, lag-free operation.”

https://us.astellnkern.com/products/a-ultima-sp2000

What about this guy, i heard it's amazing
Linsoul YinLvMei M400

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

What about this guy, i heard it's amazing
Linsoul YinLvMei M400

I’ve heard good things. It’s got the SA9227 chip which is supposed to great for
streaming audio but for me it’s a bit expensive to only be a desktop/portable amp. My listening habits don’t often include laptops/pc and hardly stream music so its a bit too expensive. As a portable amp, it probably great but you would need a good source as your “pre-amp”

 

[IcedFrosty]

I’ve heard good things. It’s got the SA9227 chip which is supposed to great for
streaming audio but for me it’s a bit expensive to only be a desktop/portable amp. My listening habits don’t often include laptops/pc and hardly stream music so its a bit too expensive. As a portable amp, it probably great but you would need a good source as your “pre-amp”

Do we really need USB DAC support up to 32Bit/384KHz? I mean, for people like me who only used 24/192 max. (My Hi-Res files are mostly 24/96)

I think the use of a dedicated USB Controller + clock and a separate USB DAC port is a great feature. Not only it won't suck source's battery pretty much, but also a dedicated clock would avoid annoying delays.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Do we really need USB DAC support up to 32Bit/384KHz? I mean, for people like me who only used 24/192 max. (My Hi-Res files are mostly 24/96)

It’s not really how it works. You oversample because quantization errors can eliminate and reduce noise and distortion because there’s more doubling copied and playback similar to a balance cable with two independent grounds and a stronger signal doubled. However if the upsampling or downsampling bits are asymmetrical or not copied correctly. Then you would have quantization errors in those boxes as well!

There are essentially two “families” 44.1 and 48 that multiply. Here’s what I mean.

44.1x 2= 88.2, 176, 352

48x 2= 96, 192, 384, etc

Oversamping is considered ”High Res” but so is resolution higher than 24 bit is also ”High Res” 32 floating bit is really good if you want more headroom and to avoid clipping.

In PCM you definitely want a USB or output that’s 24 bit or above. The sampling rate is less of concern Because of things like truncations when you downsample but also it’s higher resolution so it should be a cleaner sound! You don’t have the dither because the imagining is clearer resolution.

So when the DAC goes to analog it is converted to either 44.1 or 48 in playback. It’s not ‘true bit perfect’ in sigma delta. The higher the sampling rate the better the SNC because high sampling or bit resolution can “noise shape” the errors outside the audio signal.

But I agree some oversampling is overboard. 352, 384 and above is considered DXD basically anything 4x the 44.1 or 48 is considered DXD but the conversions from PCM To DSD Mastering is 352 and above.

Upsampling or downsampling in SRC firmware or software have varying results so it depends on what program is used. There are also programs that can diagnosis your files the same way you would a DAC with DC offset, noise levels and distortion levels, SNC, etc

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

This video explains why 44.1 16 bit is dithered. It’s because the masters are downsampled from 24 or 32 bit to 16 bit so there’s truncation and dither is applied.

It also appears that the ak449* chips also break things down between two families 44.1 and 48. The 32 is available since many digital recordings prior to late 80s need to be de-emphasis but it’s rarely used today in PCM.

I believe this is the reason for the two clock frequency of 49.152Mhz 45.1584Mh bandwidths that are then sent to the zishans dac. But I'm not entirely sure???

 

[InvisibleInk]

Did the UI change at all from the original ZiShan DSD? What about the ability to read large libraries of songs (e.g. 256GBs or larger) without crashing at startup?

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Did the UI change at all from the original ZiShan DSD? What about the ability to read large libraries of songs (e.g. 256GBs or larger) without crashing at startup?

It did and didn’t. Basically, it stayed the same and in different iterations brought back features or eliminated them. There’s more “under-the-hood” stuff per firmware updates. I.e. it doesn’t crash anymore with a 256gb micro sd cards and you can “add” cuesheets as playlists with album art (I don’t use this feature so I’m really green with this topic)

The main difference in “features” has come from the volume levels from 1-32 to 1-100 and there’s no physical volume knob Instead they use the microcontroller buttons. Also some like the T1 only Zishan with a touchscreen has all 6 digital filters found on the AKM chip(s) Datasheet where as other Zishan DSD and the newer DSDs only have only 5 (and I believe in the earlier versions it was only 4???).

The “Turbo Mode” feature is reintroduced on the Zishan Dsds ak4499 so you can turn on the DAC in 4 channels 2 Dacs in all playback in “stereo”. I believe that Ak4495 DSD Pro 699 version with the “Turbo Mode,”functionality worked with the DACs circuitry Iterations??? And obviously not like activating the 2 DAC of the newer Ak4499 chip

 

[Themilkman46290]

Nice thread, me and the wife are renovating so it's going to be a while before I grab the DSDs, but slowdownman has talked me into checking it out.

So I will lurk here in the background, checking out your works. Wish you all productive tinkering

Hey slowdownman, Hope you get it running again, what mods did you do before it quit on you?
Maybe you will need to reverse those mods...

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Hey slowdownman, Hope you get it running again, what mods did you do before it quit on you?
Maybe you will need to reverse those mods...

Yes, I have to backtrack some of modded steps. It's not that it doesn't ”work” per se. It's that the firmware doesn't recognize the DAC because the components aren't compatible with the program software. It’s similar to say you are building a PC and In the build the components arent compatible with certain parts.

I would suggested if the price goes down to get the DSDs 4497 if it’s on sale for $120-130. However, if you can get the “GAD” version on eBay if/when it comes down in price ($200 is too much.) it is better.

The main reason I say this is because the discreet bjts transistors causes 2nd order distortion which affects the resolution. It is nice to have some distortion/noise if you like the DAC to sound warmer but some op amps like JFETs will sound grainy since they aren’t as clean as bipolar op amps. The best is two buffers for each channel in the output stage. They sound better. And a mod like that is well worth the trouble if you know how to do it!

Compared to the single AK4497, the double line out is amazing and the dac sounds wider but it good way with nice soundstage. It doesn't sound as “crunched” in playback

I can’t recommend DSDs4499 Because of two issues 1. It overheats and requires heat sinks even on the digital board that maybe helps with the thermal shutdowns, etc. (Haven’t done this mod yet!)

2.The second is that it doesn’t have much of an mod ceiling for various reasons and the mods I’ve seen don’t really enhance the chip to perform at its optimal level.

The ak4499 can be used in mono, stereo, 4 channels is a response to ES9038 which also has mono, stereo and 8 channels per chip. These chips have a high degree of input/output in current-mode or voltage-mode based on performance criterion; there lies the problem!

I will post my mod pics when I get a chance!

 

[InvisibleInk]

Has anyone done a write-up on the ZiShan DSDs' equalizer? Bands 0-9's preset frequencies are somewhat odd values for a 10-band EQ.

ZiShand DSDs Equalizer Bands

Band, Frequency

0=60

1=170

2=310

3=600

4=1K

5=3K

6=6K

7=12K

8=14K

9=16K

Examining ZiShan DSDs’ values in its default.cfg preset:

eq enabled: off

eq precut: 0

eq band 0 cutoff: 60

eq band 0 q: 7

eq band 0 gain: 0

eq band 1 cutoff: 200

eq band 1 q: 10

eq band 1 gain: 0

eq band 2 cutoff: 800

eq band 2 q: 10

eq band 2 gain: 0

eq band 3 cutoff: 4000

eq band 3 q: 10

eq band 3 gain: 0

eq band 4 cutoff: 12000

eq band 4 q: 7

eq band 4 gain: 0


Now looking at Oratory1990 Focal Elegia Equalizer APO Filter Settings

Filter Type Frequency Gain Q-Factor BW

Band 1 PEAK 85 Hz -1,8 dB 1,4 1,01

Band 2 PEAK 1700 Hz. -2,0 dB 2,0 0,71

Band 3 PEAK 5400 Hz 12,0 dB 0,7 1,92

Band 4 PEAK 5700 Hz -10,2 dB 2,5. 0,57

Band 5. PEAK 3000 Hz -2,0 dB 3,0 0,48

Band 6

Band 7 LOW_SHELF. 160 Hz. 5,5 dB 0,5 0,52



Ignoring Bands 1-6 above, If I were to try adapting the low shelf in Oratory1990’s parametic EQ for the Focal Elegia, would an equivelant low shelf look something like this in a ZiShan DSDs’ .cfg file?

eq enabled: on

eq precut: 10

eq band 0 cutoff: 60

eq band 0 q: 5

eq band 0 gain: 55

eq precut: 60

eq band 1 cutoff: 170

eq band 1 q: 5

eq band 1 gain: 55


Thanks, and cheers!

Edit: I've since discovered in my testing that if I set eq band 1 cutoff = 200, it changes the band setting from 170 to 200 in the equalizer. This suggests to me that those band values are in no way fixed and you can set them to whatever frequency you want. Neat.

 

[Setmagic]

@ HeyManslowdown97
So DSDs dual 4497 is better than 4499 for 2 main reasons:
1) 40% cheaper but almost same sound quality
2) Don't have as big issues from overheating and some fails with implementations amp circut.
I searched and readed Zishan DSD topic in russian Player.ru forum and 4499 need a lot of modification to reverse negative channel equalization? Sound was turn in wrong direction. I don't understand so well but this seems not good One of the masters of electronics @ slavalun did some references about it and modification way beond my skills.
Just need to understand how run property that exotic China DAP i learn 2 things for HI impedance headphones 150+ is better to remove some transistors from headphone out 3,5mm and if i want maximum performance i need to learn electronics, buy professional equipment and have luck with property replace all stock cheap componets with hi-end ones.
I am on the budget so i can't just buy hi-end DAP so maybe i will enough quality upgrade from my Fiio X3 paired with Topping NX3s buing some Zishan

 

[fabien32]

@ HeyManslowdown97
So DSDs dual 4497 is better than 4499 for 2 main reasons:
1) 40% cheaper but almost same sound quality
2) Don't have as big issues from overheating and some fails with implementations amp circut.
I searched and readed Zishan DSD topic in russian Player.ru forum and 4499 need a lot of modification to reverse negative channel equalization? Sound was turn in wrong direction. I don't understand so well but this seems not good One of the masters of electronics @ slavalun did some references about it and modification way beond my skills.
Just need to understand how run property that exotic China DAP i learn 2 things for HI impedance headphones 150+ is better to remove some transistors from headphone out 3,5mm and if i want maximum performance i need to learn electronics, buy professional equipment and have luck with property replace all stock cheap componets with hi-end ones.
I am on the budget so i can't just buy hi-end DAP so maybe i will enough quality upgrade from my Fiio X3 paired with Topping NX3s buing some Zishan

I have no idea all the problem are you talking about but to my ears the 4499 is amazing and the 4497 doesn't come even close