[chesebert]

wow all these zhaolu bashing. I guess its not FOTM anymore

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've noticed a small difference between the Zhaolu's DAC and the SB3's DAC... and I've come to prefer the SB3's cheap internal DAC...

Even though the Burr-Brown PCM1748 DAC is inexpensive, I'd imagine it sounds pretty decent. It's also used in Denon's CD changers (DCM-380 and DCM-390).

Back on-topic... I'm interested to hear a comparison between the Sony changer and Zhaolu with a separate integrated amplifier or receiver, so that you can rule out the Zhaolu's pre-amp as a bottleneck.

 

[philodox]

Mod the output stage of your zhaolu [zapfilter] and use something else for volume control... is your K1000 amp a power amp or can you control the gain on it? If it is a power amp you should have someone build you a simple preamp. There is a nice unity gain tubed preamp design that runeight posted in the DIY forum here recently.

Which DAC chip is in your zhaolu? A lot of people on here seem to like the AD chip, but I thought the CS chip was superior on the zapfilter modded zhaolu that I heard.

I know you probably love the convenience of your 400 disc changer, but I seriously doubt it is going to win any awards for transport design. TOSLINK is icky, try something with coax and you may be surprised.

 

[Sean H]

rincewind - I've heard your opinion, here's mine. There are many variations of a Zhaolu. 1.3(A), 2.0A, 2.0C, 2.5A, 2.5C and opamps used. They all sound different. The latest, the 2.5, specifically the CS4398 version, sounds way different than the 1.3 AD1852. It's much more refined and musical with a warmer character. To these ears anyway. Now, I've shorted the DC blocking caps and use OPA2107's and the thing is unbelievably good. Way more depth and warmth with an extremely natural sound which is quite different from something like a 1.3 or even a 2.0A. The AD models are a bit more hifi sounding but the C models are more natural. Laugh if you want and still claim I have a beginner's DAC and something not worthy for a nice system but my 2.5C is the very best DAC I have ever owned without question. Kills my former Ack! dAck! 2.0 with High Res option. I am not arguing any point about point of diminishing returns and am not saying that the Zhaolu is some kind of magical pixie dust that kills mega dollar DAC's, but I am giving you my opinion that my DAC will compete with any DAC under $1k without any hesitation - PERIOD.

 

[oicdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean H /img/forum/go_quote.gif rincewind - I've heard your opinion, here's mine. There are many variations of a Zhaolu. 1.3(A), 2.0A, 2.0C, 2.5A, 2.5C and opamps used. They all sound different. The latest, the 2.5, specifically the CS4398 version, sounds way different than the 1.3 AD1852. It's much more refined and musical with a warmer character. To these ears anyway. Now, I've shorted the DC blocking caps and use OPA2107's and the thing is unbelievably good. Way more depth and warmth with an extremely natural sound which is quite different from something like a 1.3 or even a 2.0A. The AD models are a bit more hifi sounding but the C models are more natural. Laugh if you want and still claim I have a beginner's DAC and something not worthy for a nice system but my 2.5C is the very best DAC I have ever owned without question. Kills my former Ack! dAck! 2.0 with High Res option. I am not arguing any point about point of diminishing returns and am not saying that the Zhaolu is some kind of magical pixie dust that kills mega dollar DAC's, but I am giving you my opinion that my DAC will compete with any DAC under $1k without any hesitation - PERIOD.

See the real question though is, are they of significant difference warranting thier price hikes/difference?

Bottom line for 99% of people is usually price. Those of you whose bottom line is not the cost, consider yourselves extremely lucky. I'm no cheap ass, but I'm not an idiot either. Why spend extra money for the upgrade if the sound isn't worth the price difference, i.e. not that significant? Or atleast significant enough to make you go "damn...that was worth the extra cash..."

Perfect example is a Go Vibe 5 vs. Hornet (mainly because ATM, that was my main comparo). Many think the Hornet is the end all to portable amps. And it probably is (I haven't heard it, only judging by reviews). But many will also say the GV5 is VERY similar sounding, and well, if having to choose between the two, the Hornet isn't worth the 4x price hike, as the sound difference isn't THAT significan't, or 4 times better. The Hornet and GV5 were actually my last two amp choices to decide between. And honestly, the price swayed me towards the GV5. I figured I could buy a good interconnect and/or a couple different IC's then pick and choose my preference and STILL have some money to go towards that DAC for my new notebook. Seemed like the smarter thing to do IMO. Actually, it was a WAY smarter choice IMO.

But again, it's your money...spend it as you wish.*

This post wasn't directed towards you or anybody....it's speaking in general.

 

[Davesrose]

I was considering the Zhaolu as my first DAC, but good thing I couldn't get the dealers to sell me one (one was out of them, the other wasn't responding to my e-mails). So that made me save a bit more for one of those $1000 DACs......thinking that certainly would sound different then my Sony CD player. BOY does it ever!!!!! I wound up getting the DAC1 which is night and day different then my Sony CD player. If I have my Sennheiser cans plugged right in the DAC1's hp amp, they really sing (now it's making me want to get a $1k headphone amp.....Single Power PPX Extreme is on my list now).

One thing that I notice about source gear, is that sound quality sounds more impactful if you keep things simple. Even plugging a switchbox or equalizer inbetween the DAC1 and my current headphone amp (a lowly MicroAmp), I notice a shrinking in detail. Plugging directly to the DAC1, I get an excellent soundstage, a nice synergy with Senns, and some magical detail (the DAC is my first component I've had that gives my headphones a noticable change in sound quality......it's worth the extra price IMO). I'm at a point where I'd rather spend $1k on a component seeing that it has way more difference in sound signature then pricey interconnects, headphone mods, or graphic equalizers.

 

[cotdt]

the zhaolu needs to be modded to sound great, like a zapfilter and a better clock.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif the zhaolu needs to be modded to sound great, like a zapfilter and a better clock.

See, I keep seeing these posts, but it's not about great, it's about any difference at all.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif See, I keep seeing these posts, but it's not about great, it's about any difference at all.

well..there is nothing wrong with not able to hear any difference. You just have a wooden ear. be glad

now sell your Zhaolu, keep your sony CDP, and never look back

 

[Meyvn]

All right. So one of the several suspicions connected with the changer may have been confirmed, as I switched to the SCD-595ES, and now there IS a difference (note, I used it as a redbook transport and not SACD). The Zhaolu's soundstage is obviously bigger than the 595, pretty sure the volume level is a smidgeon higher, and the percussion, as it was with my old computer as source system, is a bit clearer and stronger on the Zhaolu. So it could've been the optical connector fudging the sound, or it could've been the changer is just a bad transport, or it could've been that the changer's DAC really was as good as the Zhaolu's. However, this does mean at the least that the Zhaolu makes a difference in at least one situation.

 

[Davesrose]

Have you tried listening to your two Sonys without the Zhaolu Meyvn? When I got my SCD-CE595 I was very surprised to find the redbook audio sounded exactly the same as my older Sony CD changer (had assumed that since it used a newer DSD converter, it would be different). So I've come to the assumption that all Sonys have a canned audio signature.....except perhaps the ES series. To generalize what I hear with Sony, it seems the bass is rolled off....mids are pretty well detailed, but treble could use some extension as well. There's no soundstage....decent reference presentation, but can be more dynamic (with a DAC!!!

)

One of the reasons I decided on the DAC1 was hearing about it's immunity to jitter. Could be a jitter problem with the CX455 and Zhaolu....I would try A/Bing the two Sonys by themselves to see if there's a noticable difference in their DACs. My assumption of Sony might change if you do find the CX455 has a better DAC then the 595.

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif One of the reasons I decided on the DAC1 was hearing about it's immunity to jitter.

That's basically an oxymoron!!

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean H /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's basically an oxymoron!!

don't follow....how is immunity towards jitter an oxymoron?

 

[Sean H]

Sorry, Dave, oxymoron maybe was not the best word to use there. My point was that while Benchmark claims their Ultra-Lock technology is immune to jitter most say it's virtually impossible and that there is always going to be some degree of jitter. It's been discussed to death here and elsewhere. No doubt the DAC likely has extremely low jitter though.

 

[Davesrose]

ah OK Sean.....you had me trying to see the irony in the two words!!!!

Yep, the debate about jitter on the Benchmark has been done to death.....but the consensus is that the DAC1 does have very low jitter (whether it's really perceptable or not, is probably the real issue). I've just tried hooking up expensive coaxial cable to cheapy RCA ones on the DAC1 as a test. Couldn't hear a real difference. As a DAC, I think it's a good performer (doesn't sound cold or harsh to me). It has a clear sound difference as opposed to all the other DACs I've got laying around (though it's DAC is way more expensive then the Sony CD players, dvd players, or AV reciever I have). So I think the DAC1 is worth the price (non audiophile peope would probably think one crazy for spending so much on source equipment).