[Meyvn]

All right, so I posted this in my source upgrade thread, but that one wasn't really focused around the Zhaolu originally, so I think this warrants a separate thread to hear from fellow Zhaolu owners. I've recently hooked up my Sony 400 disc mega changer through both its analog outputs and its optical output into my Zhaolu D2C with the blocking caps mod, and discrete headamp/preamp. Here's the thing: I hear NO DIFFERENCE when I'm using the Zhaolu as the DAC and when I'm using the DAC in the 400 disc megachanger. So there's a few possibilities here.
1. The Zhaolu's DAC is complete crap, and I've just been deluded this entire time.
2. The 400 disc changer's DAC is somehow very good for the price, and an extreme sleeper value.
3. The discrete upgrade preamp is so bad that it makes them sound the same.
4. The optical output on the changer is so bad it makes them sound the same.

Any thoughts? Comments? For the record, I can hear the difference easily between the Zhaolu's DAC and the analog outputs of my laptop, as well as the Zhaolu and my turntable. So my ears aren't completely clogged.

 

[jbloudg20]

By discrete pre amp, do you mean Ori's output stage?

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbloudg20 /img/forum/go_quote.gif By discrete pre amp, do you mean Ori's output stage?

No. I mean the discrete headamp/preamp that is an upgrade option for the Zhaolu from the manufacturer. The default one is tiny, weak, and uses opamps.

 

[jbloudg20]

Gotcha. have you tried the outout cap bypass?

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbloudg20 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gotcha. have you tried the outout cap bypass?

Yes, I have. I actually mentioned it in my post. I believe I referred to them as "DC blocking caps." I merely followed exact directions in doing it, and I know they're in the circuit in the first place to protect against incorrect opamp insertion; the technical stuff I'm not aware of, so the correct terminology perhaps eluded me. And at any rate, such a thing as four caps should not completely make or break this DAC doing ANYTHING.

 

[jbloudg20]

I'm sorry I missed that part.

Well, the Zhaolu is a good DAC for the money, but it is what it is, a $100 DAC. You may have some nice circuitry in your CD player. Be happy!

 

[Fitz]

I've noticed a small difference between the Zhaolu's DAC and the SB3's DAC... and I've come to prefer the SB3's cheap internal DAC...

 

[pne]

you have reached a critical stage in your audiophile journey, congradulations! do not be sad, for everyone eventually gets to this stage. What matters most is selling that DAC, and auditioning stuff with your own ears before buying it.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've noticed a small difference between the Zhaolu's DAC and the SB3's DAC... and I've come to prefer the SB3's cheap internal DAC...

I really wonder about audiphilia altogether sometimes. People will come out and claim that some cable, or some amp, or some source will make the biggest difference they've ever heard in their system, and I just don't get all the dramatics. I hear tons of difference between transducers, some more than others with amps, and then extremely little from source or cables, when some people claim the source is the most important part of your chain. I mean, people will buy $30,000 sources. I'm planning on hitting up Audio Alternative soon and giving the Apollo a listen to see if I hear a difference on a higher end source. If I don't, I really won't know what to make of any of this. Is it possible for thousands of people to be deluded into thinking they hear a difference? Is it possible that I can hear so much difference between certain things, and NONE between others when so many people claim to, and I have good hearing as far as frequencies and such are concerned.

 

[Azure]

5. SQ improvements aren't as great as people hype them up to be here.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure /img/forum/go_quote.gif 5. SQ improvements aren't as great as people hype them up to be here.

I've ALWAYS agreed with that, but there's a difference between 'not AS great' and NOTHING. And it's not just here. It's every audio forum, website, and magazine ever. If there's legimately no difference between sources, then why on earth would people try to make better ones? I have indeed heard a huge difference between my soundcard and pretty much any halfway decent source. Vinyl vs. digital is quite noticeable as well. Then, heck, hooking up the coax output on my DVD player to the Zhaolu renders a big difference in even output level compared to the analog outputs on the player, let alone detail and other stuff.

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've ALWAYS agreed with that, but there's a difference between 'not AS great' and NOTHING. And it's not just here. It's every audio forum, website, and magazine ever. If there's legimately no difference between sources, then why on earth would people try to make better ones? I have indeed heard a huge difference between my soundcard and pretty much any halfway decent source. Vinyl vs. digital is quite noticeable as well. Then, heck, hooking up the coax output on my DVD player to the Zhaolu renders a big difference in even output level compared to the analog outputs on the player, let alone detail and other stuff.

Then your case is probably similar to what happend with me with the M^3. The difference is there, but it's so incredibly small in magnitude that your ears can't pick it up or your brain cannot discern a difference. Your CDP also could just have similar sound as the Zhaolu, making the SQ difference that much more difficult to discern (Such as how difficult it is to notice a difference when going up a product line, as opposed to side-stepping to different sound signatures). I noticed a decent difference (something like 15%) between the D2C and my CE595 (Basically the bottom end became a bit stronger and more emphasis was placed on the highs).

 

[jbloudg20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've ALWAYS agreed with that, but there's a difference between 'not AS great' and NOTHING. And it's not just here. It's every audio forum, website, and magazine ever. If there's legimately no difference between sources, then why on earth would people try to make better ones? I have indeed heard a huge difference between my soundcard and pretty much any halfway decent source. Vinyl vs. digital is quite noticeable as well. Then, heck, hooking up the coax output on my DVD player to the Zhaolu renders a big difference in even output level compared to the analog outputs on the player, let alone detail and other stuff.

Alomst every forum is like that. The users are the very EXTREME, and most reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Especially in audiophilia, exaggeration is a way to generate business.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. The Zhaolu's DAC is complete crap, and I've just been deluded this entire time.

It's very difficult to have a "complete crap" DAC these days, even in cheap CD changers and soundcards. The Zhaolu is not a giant-killer, but it definitely does not sound like "complete crap" even if you don't like its sound signature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2. The 400 disc changer's DAC is somehow very good for the price, and an extreme sleeper value.

A given system's resolution is only as good as the bottleneck in the system. In this case, the bottleneck may or may not be the DAC in Zhaolu or the CD changer. Many CD changers sound just fine, especially in headphone systems, which are usually not as revealing as good speaker systems for A-B testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3. The discrete upgrade preamp is so bad that it makes them sound the same.

Why would you route a perfectly good signal through a budget "preamp" section ("discrete" or not)? This is a very potential bottleneck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif 4. The optical output on the changer is so bad it makes them sound the same.

The cheap build quality and literal cheap price of both Toslink transmitter and receiver is enough to give you a laugh if it weren't so sad at the same time. Transports/digital interface IME makes a much bigger contribution to the overall sound than decent DAC's these days.

 

[utep10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why would you route a perfectly good signal through a budget "preamp" section ("discrete" or not)? This is a very potential bottleneck.

If your using the variable output of the Zhaolu, then I think this is your bottleneck as well. Try the fixed gain out.

If they still sound the same, then..........what's the point

?