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Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Larry, if you get a chance to try an upgraded Zero, you might be surprised.
Through ALO-recabled K701's, the Duet sounded unbearably analytical compared to the Zero with OPA627s. I wouldn't say the Duet or Zero have the edge on each other. With my current Denons, there's little difference.
Another thing, the Duet is powered from a Firewire port, so it has only as much grunt as a Mac can provide via it. It doesn't drive especially low impedence phones as well as a mains-powered amp. It does do remarkably well though, considering it's not designed as a headphone amp.
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I think we're still pretty much on the same page.
I noted that two SS amps with OPA627 vs the Duet/mini-DAC headphone out were "on pretty much the same level" and that Apogee is slightly better than the 336i, and that "I don't see a $99 + shipping Zero surpassing the mini-DAC or Duet any time soon."
Even you are putting the modded Zero vs Duet headphone out on about the same level, accounting for synergy (Denon) or lack thereof (K701) with certain headphones. Your Zero did not cost $99 after 2 or 4 dual channel opamp upgrades, and hasn't surpassed the Duet according to what you wrote.
In regards to synergy of the K701 with Zero and Duet. I realize that you are not saying that failure to please with one headphone means failure with them all. I had K701 for about 3 days and I assure you that it was easy to find an amp that will make them "unbearably analytical" as you put it. Out of my Dark Voice 336i that is exactly what I got out of the K701, and I got the same unbearably analytical result with the W11R, W5000 and CD3000. But that same Dark Voice really shines and sounds great with HD600, RS-1, HP-1000, Edition 9, D2000, Grado HF-1, Proline 2500, HFI-700, HFI-780, Yamaha HP-1, AKG K240M and Alessandro MS-1.
Obviously I am not gonna say the Dark Voice 336i isn't a great amp based on the failure to make those very few headphones sound good (12 out of 16 were a success). At the time I got the K701 my 336i was my best amp in the house, and I didn't know about the nice bassy Tung Sol 5998 tube for it, but I did have a nice JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G in it. So the K701 were sold because I did not yet have anything to drive them that would make them sound good. It's good to know the K701 have more synergy with a SS amp with OPA627 opamps.
What I saw here was the OP being happy with the Zero but looking to upgrade the Zero's headphone amp to either a 336SE or a LD III/IV, and in his musings he wrote about maybe buying a Duet to go with the new amp. It looked like he was assuming the Duet doesn't drive headphones (or assumed it doesn't do it well, not sure). So, my goal was just to express how good the headphone out of the Duet is, and that the 336i is very close to that. I didn't mean to phrase my reply in a way that would make it look like I was putting down the Zero.
He could certainly drive the 336 or MkIV with the Zero and get great sound, but will it be better than modding the Zero's opamps? Don't know. But, what I do know is that if he buys a Duet then it might actually sound the same or better via the built-in headphone jack than when driving a Dark Voice 336i. I've spent a fair amount of time listening to Blutarsky's Duet, and it is wonderful with Grado RS-1, Grado HP-1000, Grado PS-1, Denon D2000 and HD600.
I don't know how the Zero sounds, but I wanted to help and was able to use some circuitous reasoning to at least compare the other items that he asked about - i.e. I have heard 336i vs mini-DAC, mini-DAC vs Duet, 336i and mini-DAC vs 2 other OPA627 amps that might sound like a modded Zero, etc... Then I threw in a couple of amps that I have heard that might be a more clear upgrade over what he has (or over the Duet) than what he listed. I would hate for someone to end up spending $500 on Duet and $300 shipped for tube amp, just to find the combo only a little better than what he has and end up being disappointed. Obviously you would hate for him to spend the $800, when he could buy opamps for $60-120 to upgrade the Zero first.
So using that reasoning - if you say the Zero with OPA627 opamps is similar to the Duet and better with K701, and I say the Duet/mini-DAC is slightly better than a 336i and slightly behind a Woo WA6 - then one option is to upgrade the Zero's opamps, but then if not satisfied he could add a WA6 amp to the Zero (as a DAC only). The WA6 with only the pseudo dual power supply mod would be about $700, and added to the modded Zero as the source should be an upgrade over the 336i or the Duet (or both together). It wont be transportable like the Duet, but he wont be locked into Macs and will get a better headphone amp section in the deal.
