[dreamwhisper]

Zana Deux's are already considered to be very high end tube amps.
So how much could they improve as a Balancing Act, or another amp like TTVJ 307A, Ray Samuels B52 etc?
What is the price to performance ratio?

Also,
Is the way headphones react to balanced solid state comparable to how headphones react to balanced tubes?
Do headphones improve less with balanced tubes versus balanced solid state?

I'm guessing this would also be somewhat dependent on the headphone.
For example, I've read that D5000's and AD2000's don't improve as much with balanced amplification as say HD650

?

 

[Skin]

Given the fact that you dont need to spend a load of money for a balanced amp, when the benefits of balance are also subjective especially when comparing said balanced option to a superb SE option, the price/performance ratio is downright terrible in my opinion.

If you're really interested, before you go and drop 3-4 grand, i'd suggest trying to get to a meet where one is on hand or trying a cheaper balanced option and seeing what you think.

Audio is very much a personal affair, so when you get to that kind of money, especially when considering a blind purchase, its really best to get some kind of first hand knowledge on what to expect.

As far as what it benefits more, its not a bias technology so its simply a matter of what sound you prefer.

 

[Jarmel]

What I'm really interested in is how does the Zana Deux Transformer compare to other Balanced Tube Amps. This way you not only have the regular Zana Deux but also the balanced part as well.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I'm really interested in is how does the Zana Deux Transformer compare to other Balanced Tube Amps. This way you not only have the regular Zana Deux but also the balanced part as well.

No, the ZDT is not a regular Zana. The ZDT has transformers on the output. The Zana is OTL. One of the things that makes the Zana special is that it is an OTL with a low output impedance - the 6C33C can do that. Most OTL amps will not.

I doubt the ZDT is bad - it is probably excellent - but it is a transformer coupled amp nonetheless. It will have its own sound signature. Given that it has Electra-Print iron, it's probably great, but it will not sound exactly like a regular Zana.

As for the other amps you mention, keep in mind that all of them have very different tubes and topologies. Those have a large impact on sound and performance, so there are more factors than just single ended and balanced. I strongly suggest you attend a meet and do a lot of reading before buying anything. Do not make your decision by reading testimonials and reviews, deciding which member seems most credible, or just by which case looks the coolest. You're talking about a fair amount of money for something that may or may not be what you expect.

My two cents on balanced operation is that the majority of the benefit comes from bridging the amp. Simply, bridging is taking two amps and making them run as a single amp. You get four times the power, twice the slew rate, and much else.

You don't need to be balanced to run a bridged amp. Balanced lines were developed by Western Electric in the 1920s (IIRC) as a solution to running telephone lines over long distances while minimizing loss. I'm talking miles. If there's three feet between your amp and CD player, losses from running single ended are pretty much imperceptible. Strict channel separation is also said to be a benefit of balanced, but I've never heard a problem single ended.

To compound things, a lot of manufacturers know that balanced has a premium or elite status. One that people will pay extra for. So there is a bit of "balanced" gear on the market that has balanced connectors that lead to a single ended component. Beware. Not everything that appears to be balanced actually is when you open it up.

In short, I decided that balanced was not worth the trouble to replace every component I have and recable every pair of headphones. It just isn't worth it. I'm not saying balanced is bad, just that it doesn't make financial sense for me. Especially when it's tough to find a balanced radio receiver and phono preamp - sources that I love to use.

 

[Jarmel]

Well the thing is that I'm interested in a balanced amp for the HD800s and this is pretty much the best one under 4000. It seems that Eddie's Current isn't going to make more Balancing Acts so I'm kinda stuck. It also appears that nobody has heard the ZDT to make an analysis. I'm not sure if it's even possible but maybe I should ask Craig if it's possible to get the ZDT without the transformers.

I'm trying to get to Can Jam but being in NYC it's kinda inconvenient.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well the thing is that I'm interested in a balanced amp for the HD800s and this is pretty much the best one under 4000. It seems that Eddie's Current isn't going to make more Balancing Acts so I'm kinda stuck. It also appears that nobody has heard the ZDT to make an analysis. I'm not sure if it's even possible but maybe I should ask Craig if it's possible to get the ZDT without the transformers. I'm trying to get to Can Jam but being in NYC it's kinda inconvenient.

The ZDT without transformers is, more or less, the standard Zana Deux. You can order two bridged Zanas, if you want. One member (whose name I can't remember, unfortunately - nice guy) was at the LA meet last October who has two Zanas custom built in balanced configuration. It was a sweet sounding setup. You could probably order the same thing if you wanted.

However, it would probably be wise to hold off until you get the HD-800, then run it with whatever amp you have for a bit. Get a balanced cable, then take it to a few meets and listen to it balanced. Better yet, take your amp along, too, so you can A/B the difference.

I know you want the "best" and would like to order everything now. But hardly anyone has heard the HD-800 yet and who knows how things are going to shake out when it hits the street. I think it would be smart to hold off and see what happens, rather than try to make up your mind from opinions on a message board. If you get to the NYC meet, I know there will be several members with balanced rigs and many more single ended. The best thing would be to go with your headphones, listen, and talk to people there.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems that Eddie's Current isn't going to make more Balancing Acts so I'm kinda stuck.

where did you hear this? on the EC site, it says taking orders for the balancing act.

 

[Jarmel]

What am I going to the wrong website?

Page 1

I've seen it nowhere on the website.

Edit:Nvm I'm a bloody freaking moron. I can't believe this.
Of course now this means that I'm going to have to blow 500 bucks more. Sigh...

 

[Jarmel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The ZDT without transformers is, more or less, the standard Zana Deux. You can order two bridged Zanas, if you want. One member (whose name I can't remember, unfortunately - nice guy) was at the LA meet last October who has two Zanas custom built in balanced configuration. It was a sweet sounding setup. You could probably order the same thing if you wanted. However, it would probably be wise to hold off until you get the HD-800, then run it with whatever amp you have for a bit. Get a balanced cable, then take it to a few meets and listen to it balanced. Better yet, take your amp along, too, so you can A/B the difference. I know you want the "best" and would like to order everything now. But hardly anyone has heard the HD-800 yet and who knows how things are going to shake out when it hits the street. I think it would be smart to hold off and see what happens, rather than try to make up your mind from opinions on a message board. If you get to the NYC meet, I know there will be several members with balanced rigs and many more single ended. The best thing would be to go with your headphones, listen, and talk to people there.

I heard about the two Zana's thing. I can't even imagine how much that had to cost. The main thing is that I don't have a home amp only a portable one so even to really listen to the HD-800's I'm going to have to get some amp so why not one of the better ones.

 

[jochen.schell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif where did you hear this? on the EC site, it says taking orders for the balancing act.

Craig told me last week in an email that the BA is a limited edition and he will probably not do a second run.
But last week there was stilll one spot open

He will probably produce a successor of the BA, named Aficionado.

I am also very much interested in this theme.
Shall I go for a ZD, ZDT or BA/Aficionado ?
My phone is and will stay a Grado, so I need synsrgie with low impedance phones only.

I also wonder how big the difference between SE and balanced really is.

Living in Germany unfortunately I will not have the chance to go too a meet, so I need to make my decisions by reding as much as possible here in the forum.

Jochen

 

[Aura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course now this means that I'm going to have to blow 500 bucks more. Sigh...

Have you taken note of anything Erik has said? He's giving the best possible advice for your situation. Have some patience, spend some time figuring out what you like. It's going to save you money in the long run.

 

[Jarmel]

I'm aware of what he said. I am going to try and listen to the amp as soon as possible but barring my not having an opportunity, I still have to choose. I'm stuck at college most of the year so transportation is pretty limited, really the only shot I have is during this summer. As I said, I'm going to try and make it to Can Jam but we'll see.