[sacd lover]

909, I would say your desrciption of musical is a close approximation of how I would define musical .....

Musical to me means it sounds wholly organic, seamless and moves air and conveys emotion without sacrificing the nuances of detail, harmonics, timing, and microdynamics -- essential for lifelike reproduction of sound. The ZD is the only amp out of the three that gets all of this right at the same time, which is a rare feat.

However, I dont hear the ZD as offering more of these qualities than the Extreme. I thought the ZD could sound rough at times with Grados or the 701 .... where the Extreme can sound to dull with Senn 600/650s with the wrong gain tube. Moreover, the ZD, to my ears, has never displayed the wide open soundstaging of the Extreme.

I could live with any of the three amps in question but I would rather take the Extreme and $1000 price difference and put that towards a better source.

 

[909]

one caveat as you mentioned earlier that shouldn't be overlooked your
Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif [snip]experience is limited to the original ZD prototype. [snip]

i've heard the ZD proto and many production model ZDs, and the production ZD models sound better. my impressions of the ZD and MPX3 (5687) and ZD and Extreme Plat were both done back-to-back.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 /img/forum/go_quote.gif one caveat as you mentioned earlier that shouldn't be overlooked your i've heard the ZD proto and many production model ZDs, and the production ZD models sound better. my impressions of the ZD and MPX3 (5687) and ZD and Extreme Plat were both done back-to-back.

You compared the proto ZD directly to the producton ZD?

 

[909]

nope -- based off audio memory and my reference listening material and equipment. in fact, i'd be surprised if anyone has done a direct comparison.

the production zd has an outboard power supply and different tube rectifier and I believe other differences with respect to the caps, other stuff and whatnot, which on all accounts substantially improves on the proto.

ZD Proto (far left)

Production ZD

Here's the initial listening impressions of the proto zd.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 /img/forum/go_quote.gif nope -- based off audio memory and my reference listening material and equipment. in fact, i'd be surprised if anyone has done a direct comparison. the production zd has an outboard power supply and different tube rectifier and I believe other differences with respect to the caps, other stuff and whatnot, which on all accounts substantially improves on the proto. ZD Proto (far left) Production ZD Here's the initial listening impressions of the proto zd.

I guess that depends. I like the 5u4g rectifier better in the proto vs the damper diodes. I also dont trust audio memory especially for a one time listen.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Blutarsky and I spent a bit of time with his Zana Deux and my Woo WA6 maxed with pseudo dual power supply and Sophia Princess rectifier (RCA 6DE7), and frankly we could not correctly pick which amp we were listening to with our eyes closed! His wife picked the WA6 as her favorite twice. We used HD600 with APS V3 cable, and RS-1 with same cable, as well as HP-1000 and PS-1. Only with the PS-1 could we tell which was which because the WA6 had more bass with them.

I think the WA6 is a much better value, and also competes very well against his Melos SHA Gold and my Single Power 2008 model Square Wave XL with Blackgates upgrade. Single ended I prefer the Woo, but the Single Power balanced has a slight edge.

 

[twestby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess that depends. I like the 5u4g rectifier better in the proto vs the damper diodes. I also dont trust audio memory especially for a one time listen.

Bear in mind that Craig is a true craftsman and a perfectionist, and that every successful design is likely to evolve. For example, the cathode current is a little higher in the more recent units for better drive into low impedance cans, according to Craig. If it matters, this is why the later ZDs run a tad hotter.

I am not sure that having greater tube rolling options is really an advantage. Though it is certainly great fun (until somebody puts an eye out). It seems highly unlikely to me that the vast majority of our contemporaries have even the slightest clue when it comes to tube performance and properties. I know I don't. I know some people think they do, but they don't generally hang out here - they're in the DIY amp forums (fora?). Seems to me it's just another opportunity for audiophile mental masturbation. I'm not saying tube reviews are useless, just that, due to inherent subjectivity, their utility is essentially equivalent to that of a simple list of the tubes that are technically compatible in the given application.

Notwithstanding all of the above, forecommand, I would suggest that you look for or arrange a meet in your area if you can't get enough info here to make a decision. If I were you though, I'd just go ahead and buy the Zana Deux. They are rare, uniformly excellent by acclamation, and they don't depreciate. Eddie Current will never be able to make them fast enough to keep up with demand. Then you'll be able to spend enough time to make a real decision. If you have doubts, buy the Singlepower too. Sell the one you don't want after a year. (That's a joke - you'll keep them both/all.)

As you can see, the only way you can go wrong is by doing nothing. Have fun! -Tim

 

[forcecommand]

Thanks for everyone's help. All of you have given me so much information which help me a lot on choosing my headphone amplifier.

I'm going to get a singlepower amp and contacting Mikhail by email now. But I still haven't decided to choose extreme or MPX3. I'm using K601 and HD650. Which amp is better?

I live in China and Singlepower amps are very rare in China. Thus it is not easy for me to listen to a singlepower amp.

So please give me some advices on extreme and MPX3. Thank you!

 

[mrarroyo]

Maybe boomana and her Extreme Amp can be made available for a min comparison w/ my MPX3. Also w/ vorlon1's Extreme.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forcecommand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for everyone's help. All of you have given me so much information which help me a lot on choosing my headphone amplifier. I'm going to get a singlepower amp and contacting Mikhail by email now. But I still haven't decided to choose extreme or MPX3. I'm using K601 and HD650. Which amp is better? I live in China and Singlepower amps are very rare in China. Thus it is not easy for me to listen to a singlepower amp. So please give me some advices on extreme and MPX3. Thank you!

That will be tough. The K601 and the HD 650 are VERY different. The K601 is very bass-light and forward, aggressive sounding. The HD650 is much warmer and had considerably more bass.

 

[forcecommand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif That will be tough. The K601 and the HD 650 are VERY different. The K601 is very bass-light and forward, aggressive sounding. The HD650 is much warmer and had considerably more bass.

But both K601 and HD650 can be excellent in the same amp with suitable sets of tubes for them, isn't it?

 

[Skylab]

Sure, but the SAME tubes will likely not sound good with both headphones. You would probably need different tubes for each.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure, but the SAME tubes will likely not sound good with both headphones. You would probably need different tubes for each.

I call shenanigans on this post

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I call shenanigans on this post

OK, it is POSSIBLE that they might, but have you heard both the K601 and HD650? I owned both, and I can tell you, they are about as different sounding as high end headphones get. The K601 sound nothing like the K701, so that isn't a good proxy.

By the way, I was referring to the SP amps in my post. I have no experience tube-rolling a Zana.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forcecommand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for everyone's help. All of you have given me so much information which help me a lot on choosing my headphone amplifier. I'm going to get a singlepower amp and contacting Mikhail by email now. But I still haven't decided to choose extreme or MPX3. I'm using K601 and HD650. Which amp is better? I live in China and Singlepower amps are very rare in China. Thus it is not easy for me to listen to a singlepower amp. So please give me some advices on extreme and MPX3. Thank you!

I own both an Extreme and a MPX3. For both the AKG 701 and Senn 650 I like the Extreme. The Extreme gets more bass out of the 701 and the amps open airy soundstage is a great match for the 701s. Both amps do the Senns very well. Furthermore, I have never heard any headphone I have used sound less than excellent on the Extreme .... even headphones I dont particularly care for like the Beyer dt880 sound good to me with the Extreme. The MPX3 is more picky and sometimes takes some experimentation to get the amp/ headphone combo dialed in.

As for tubes, I generally use an ECC TYPE #1 tube socket adapter with the Amperex 7062 for gain duty .... driving a pair of Tung Sol 6AS7G outut tubes. This tube combo sounds good with Senn 600s or my modded Alessandro MS1 or stock MS2i and has remained in the amp for many months.

I have used the 2C51/ 6080 combo .... 6CG7/6AS7 combo .... 6GU7/6AS7 combo and the 7N7 (6SN7 substitute) / 5998 combo all with stellar results.