[Claritas]

  Define "mid-priced".
 
If it's $500-600 I can agree up to a point since you can get the HE-500 for about that.
 
But if it's $200-300 I haven't heard anything in that price ranges that comes close to the HD800 or LCD-2/3/X.

 
$200-400.
 
I've listened to those but have come to a different conclusion, which I mentioned on the K812 thread and elaborated more recently at length here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/700667/hd800-or-he500-upgrading-from-the-hd6xx-q701-impressions-updated#post_10325997.

 

[TwoEars]

   
$200-400.
 
I've listened to those but have come to a different conclusion, which I mentioned on the K812 thread and elaborated more recently at length here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/700667/hd800-or-he500-upgrading-from-the-hd6xx-q701-impressions-updated#post_10325997.

 
From that thread:
 

  Helpful impressions. Thanks.
 
Some brief responses:
 
I am not more impressed with HE500 and HD800 compared with HD600 + a good amp. I think it's a matter of taste, not a difference in quality.
 
K702 is decent for what it does, but is less integrated compared with the others. Soundstage lovers might consider it a baby HD800; that's not so important to me.
 
The sticking point for me is that one or another mid-priced model equals or surpasses the flagships and HE500 in every genre and subgenre I listen to.
 
HD600, K501, and K340 play solo piano better.
SR80i and SR225i play organ better.
HE500 stands out with solo vocal music, but K501 is just as valid a preference.
HD800 excels with orchestral music (too bright though), but HD600 is just as valid a choice and K501 might be too.
HE400 plays jazz better.
HD600 plays harpsichord better.
SR225i plays metal and rock better.
HD600 and K501 sound better with old records.
 
The guys at my local audio shop know that I listen to classical, and they're puzzled that I haven't bought an HD800 from them. In light of my explanation above, I'm puzzled why they think I should.
 
I'll have an opportunity to work with K812 in a couple of months, but my expectation that it will surpass the mid-priced models is realistically low.

 
You should have said you were a classical kind of guy

 
I can absolutely understand you like/prefer the HD600's for that!
 
I personally think the HE-500's has the HD600/650 beat in terms of sound quality when it comes to music all over the spectrum, all the way from electronica to metal, rock, pop, jazz and classical. But if you're ONLY comparing classical the HD600 is probably at least equal or maybe even slightly, slightly better than the HE-500.

 

[jbarr1989]

HD800s with just a touch more bass impact would be the absolute perfect headphone for me. I love my TH900s and D7Ks bass impact but prefer every other aspect of the HD800s to them by a huge margin.

 

[grizzlybeast]

   
But Tyll also wrote (in that review), "I have to report that while these cans delivered significantly better price/performance ratios, they just didn't have that certain something that the high-end cans have. Finnesse or PRaT, call it what you will, they sounded dull and boring in comparison. Oh, if only someone would build a flagship without serious flaw."
 
And Sanji never came clean about what he's actually listened to. He's doing it "by the numbers," except it isn't even numbers but some rubrics he concocted. I'll take him more seriously about this when he puts his ears where his mouth is.
 
My opinion: None of the flagships plays everything well. More than that, there is isn't a single genre or subgenre in which a mid-priced model doesn't tie or best the flagships.

you are right
 
and i agree I was getting at the same thing

 

[kid vic]

Sony MDR-7506- Slightly more controlled bass (same quantity and reach), wider soundstage and I'd say its perfect! <Genre Master for certain 
 
Beyer DT770- Semi-open, unrecess the mids (almost to the level of the AKG K240's) KEEP AS MUCH BASS AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!

 

[SP Wild]

  how do grado's work with hip hop etc. That is one brand I have never tried.

My HF2s are not neutral by any means.  What they do have to me is a very satisfying V type EQ curve.  If we understand that loudness effect, in that at very low volumes a bass boost and treble boost is a positive, then to me the HF2s are an excellent low, low volume headphone.  For low volume I find them great for most popular culture music.  If one recording is too bright I can lower the volume a touch, if too dark I can raise the volume a bit - all within the safest low volume envelope.  I was very surprised when I first got them that to me they are definitely a more articulate headphone than either my K701 or HD650.
 
In saying that - I do not get the connection with music or even to reality when I listen at such low volumes.  For me to zone into music the volume needs to be moderate, realistic or LOUD. 

 

[pro1137]

I can agree with some that many mid-fi cans can best high end cans in some way or another. My experience would be with the ATH-W1000X. They sound amazing, but not $600 amazing. Maybe $400 amazing, yes, but I prefer my DT770 and Phiaton Bridge MS500 for just about everything over the W1000X. It lacks any kind of immersive properties.

 

[JohnRichard]

I can't profess to have lissened to as many of the models as those previous posters, however I have spend considerable hours on my modified (some might say cheap) HD428 over the last three years in all sorts of environments and from all manner of sources. 
 
This is what I wish for: 
 
I rather enjoy the aesthetic of the K7xx line and would go with a layout such as that. 
A bass driver large enough to produce tones to 16Hz, in combination with a comfortable earpad designed to reinforce standing waves at safe lissening volumes. 
A secondary driver to provide frequencies to 50kHz, but placed in a position that would not noticeably change the presence or soundstage placement, as some "7.1 surround drivers" might. 
Careful selection of the second driver to to sound tinny or metallic, with soft crossover circuitry and a modicum of overlap by the bass driver. 
Perhaps it may be possible to combine a small electrostatic or planar magnetic driver.  
Consideration in all components to weight.  I'll be wearing these for 3 hours or longer at a time. 
 
Why? 
 
The bass driver and earcup (over ear design) would work in combination to produce exacting bass response which is required by most pizzicato playing of double bass or celli.
Membranic percussion instruments (Timpani/Snare drum/bass drum) do not respond the same as the initial attack (stick to head contact) lies above 10khz while the fundamental tone resonates much lower.  Organ pipes can produce sounds lower than reproduction possible in headphones. However, it is necessary for proper reproduction that those standing waves be allowed. An open back may help somewhat with this, but perhaps a closed design works better for the all around tradeoff in very low frequencies. 
 
Bass volume is not as important as balance with the rest of the spectrum.  Because every sound (save for pure tones i.e. whistles, artificial, some bells) is made up of a fundamental pitch and many overtones that resonate well above 100,000Hz, it is important to at least have the ability to reproduce SOME of that information.  Overtones above the 14th or so become exponentially weaker.  In choral singing, Organs, Pianos, Percussion instruments, String instruments, and the like, these overtones make up how we as humans interpret the sounds. It's how we classify a guitar as "guitar".  
 
The secondary driver that provides the mid and high frequency information must be allowed to do so.  Arguments might be made that some recordings and microphones do not record this information anyway, which is true.  Some don't.  Good "classical" recording technique using excellent equipment will preserve a lot of this information, which is unfortunately lost in the crappy mp3 translation.  
 
We can only do the best we can while recording and reproducing music. In reality, these headphones would be decent at producing all music equally, however they would not be for everyone because of personal taste.  
 
There is always a tradeoff, but I have never understood why nearly all bookshelf and larger speakers have at least two drivers but our headphones do not...  Let's change that. 
 
Thoughts? 

 

[cjl]

 
My HF2s are not neutral by any means.  What they do have to me is a very satisfying V type EQ curve.  If we understand that loudness effect, in that at very low volumes a bass boost and treble boost is a positive, then to me the HF2s are an excellent low, low volume headphone.  For low volume I find them great for most popular culture music.  If one recording is too bright I can lower the volume a touch, if too dark I can raise the volume a bit - all within the safest low volume envelope.  I was very surprised when I first got them that to me they are definitely a more articulate headphone than either my K701 or HD650.
 
In saying that - I do not get the connection with music or even to reality when I listen at such low volumes.  For me to zone into music the volume needs to be moderate, realistic or LOUD. 

 
I haven't heard the HF2s, but every grado I've ever heard has been lacking in bass. They might have plenty of midbass, but every single one (at least that I've tried) seems to roll off steeply below ~60-80hz or so.

 

[SP Wild]

   
I haven't heard the HF2s, but every grado I've ever heard has been lacking in bass. They might have plenty of midbass, but every single one (at least that I've tried) seems to roll off steeply below ~60-80hz or so.

 
Definately the bass is noticeably rolled off if you turn them up to reference volumes, like I said, I thought they were great at low low volumes and at that volume the bass roll-off is not really an issue to me.

 

[lestatdi]

Sennheiser HD600 with a little more bass and darker sound... (probably HD650? Didnt listen it yet)

 

[bleudeciel16]

  Sennheiser HD600 with a little more bass and darker sound... (probably HD650? Didnt listen it yet)

 
I had the HD595, which I believe is very close to the 600, and I agree with your statement.  Slightly darker.  Not a whole lot darker though.  Definitely more bass.  It's a good improvement.  I felt my HD595's were pretty much a "poor" rating in the bass department, even with EQ'ing the bass up a tiny bit, but the HD650's bass is "good enough for me".  I touched the bass a tiny bit with EQ and the bass really is pretty decent on the 650's for being open headphones

 

[PETEREK]

Probably a Fostex TH600 with the mids from my Beyer DT770 Premium 600 ohm, but I've always loved the look of the Senn HD700.

 

[Hawaiibadboy]

 
I found it. I think my 1st 2nd or 3rd post on Head-Fi was about /asking if this existed. A dedicated and tuned sub with a separate driver handling the mids and highs...got no answer. Found it myself. This woulda been what I woulda done. The Bass will make you nauseous but I'm a basshead, I'll deal with it. 

 

[grizzlybeast]

 
 
I found it. I think my 1st 2nd or 3rd post on Head-Fi was about /asking if this existed. A dedicated and tuned sub with a separate driver handling the mids and highs...got no answer. Found it myself. This woulda been what I woulda done. The Bass will make you nauseous but I'm a basshead, I'll deal with it. 

They tried that with the JVC headphone but the result was less than stellar mids. Its probably because they used a wack driver. It makes a lot of sense though and maybe they need to work on it better. I always wanted to hear that headphone but because of reviews I just never went for it. I was excited when it came out.