PhilS
Headphoneus Supremus
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- Jul 17, 2004
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So (to return somewhat to the original topic) when should you trust your ears, and when should you not trust your ears?
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif So (to return somewhat to the original topic) when should you trust your ears, and when should you not trust your ears? |
Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif Speaking for myself, if the objective measurements tell you that two components measure very similarly/identically, trust only your ears in isolation, by means of blinding. |
Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif e case no matter how different they look. For a clearer example see: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....lon_fraud3.gif This is an instance where you shouldn't trust your eyes: the colors are exactly the same, no matter how much you tell yourself you can tell them apart. If they were randomized and put in a quiz form, you would fail - i.e. once your knowledge of which shade is which is blinded, the differences no longer appear to be there (I'm using the generic you btw). |
Originally Posted by ph0rk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Given the levels of science literacy in the US these days, I suppose one shouldn't be too surprised at lack of trust in what remains an agenda-free method. (It is those that apply it that have the agendas). |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where do the objective measurements come from? Is there a website that has all the objective measurements regarding DAC's and CD players that are currently on the market, for example? Or do people get them from somewhere else? And speaking of objective measurements, what should one be looking at in terms of DAC's and CD players? As you can see, I'm interested in the practical aspect of this issue. |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Scientists don't have agendas? Oh, please. They're people too, you know -- or so I've heard. |
Originally Posted by ph0rk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Latest News. Audio Rightmark Most anyone that wants to can compare things like cables a good deal more objectively than by listening to them. |
Originally Posted by ph0rk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please reread the lines you quoted. |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not talking about cables. And I don't want to talk about cables. It's too much of a lightning rod for dogmatic and inflammatory points of view by both sides. I'd like to talk about DAC's, or amps, instead. The same issue, i.e., when do you trust your ears, would seem to apply. |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where do the objective measurements come from? Is there a website that has all the objective measurements regarding DAC's and CD players that are currently on the market, for example? Or do people get them from somewhere else? And speaking of objective measurements, what should one be looking at in terms of DAC's and CD players? As you can see, I'm interested in the practical aspects of this issue. |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Woops, I read it too fast. Or maybe, I should say, "I know you said that, I was just emphasizing your point." |
Originally Posted by ph0rk /img/forum/go_quote.gif And you can RMAA dacs and amps just as easily as cables, if you wish to. In fact AMB posts RMAA results for each of his designs, and others have done so for various pieces of consumer gear. There are some minor niggles with relying solely on the RMAA results of others, but when they are so easy to reproduce at home it is a nonissue. |
Originally Posted by mike1127 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The colors on that web page are different. They have different RGB values. They also appear quite different on my monitor. You might want to come up with a better example. |
Originally Posted by mike1127 /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, your basic point is that if theory and experiment with the eye's perception of colors indicates that we can't tell two apart, then we shouldn't expect to pass a blind test. |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where do the objective measurements come from? Is there a website that has all the objective measurements regarding DAC's and CD players that are currently on the market, for example? Or do people get them from somewhere else? And speaking of objective measurements, what should one be looking at in terms of DAC's and CD players? As you can see, I'm interested in the practical aspects of this issue. |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not that familiar with RMAA, and (no offense meant) your response really doesn't enable anyone to further help me with my question, unless they know what RMAA does and what measurements they provide, and what measurements are arguably relevant to our issue (and can take your lead and run with it, so to speak). Could you ( or anyone else who thinks one should not trust his or her ears) elaborate as to what measurements are allegedly relevant to comparing two DAC's or CD players? Also, what type of measurements are you referencing that are easy to produce at home? |
Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif RMAA is a software that's downloadable for free. You can use this software to test your components. It's all outlined in the user manual that comes with the software, I suggest giving it a read. If you want to find tests on the internet, usually "xxxxx rmaa" will bring up results. A lot of components are tested, mainly DACs but even some headphone amps. Here's one site with a lot of measurements: RMAA Results Headphone amps are tested at the bottom. As for what's relevant, it's all in the report that you get from the software. It even gives you an assessment (poor, good, excellent, etc). |