[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by RickG jerk!

My, my.. first you tell me to get a life and then you call me a jerk. All in the space of 5 minutes! I'd say the honeymoon is most certainly over. No matter. But I have as much a right to comment as anyone around here RickG, so mind your own damn business, please. Your peanut gallery expertise on my life situation is not appreciated.

I wouldnt dream of contradicting Ross's experience with the W2002. If he hates it that much, he hates it that much. No two ways about it. He even sold them already, and I'm glad to know that at $500 they flew off the for sale forum. I feel like a cloud has lifted.. and I feel like laughing. At Ross.

 

[RickG]

You need to remove the W2002, and put your penis back where it belongs!

 

[kelly]

How did I know M Rael would post a reply insulting Ross? I must be psychic.

I'm not wealthy enough to hang onto stuff I don't like. I bought and sold a Sony D-25S. I bought and sold an MG Head OTL. Both pretty quickly too--just doesn't take long to determine that they don't do what I want them to.

Funny though. Man, poor Rick, maybe someday he can sell his Omega IIs and save up a little more money to buy something from the Audio-Technica line... maybe those open metal ones everyone's posting about. Hey Rick, if I gave you $150 for your Omega II, you'd be half way there. Let me know, ok?

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by RickG You need to remove the W2002, and put your penis back where it belongs!

Well now that we're being civilized again, thank you for the advice. Any time you have other recommendations about my penis, please let me know. It is off topic though.

 

[RickG]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly Funny though. Man, poor Rick, maybe someday he can sell his Omega IIs and save up a little more money to buy something from the Audio-Technica line... maybe those open metal ones everyone's posting about.

LOL, Kelly....your killing me , dude!!

 

[M Rael]

Speaking of the Omega 2's, heres part of a review I found:
"..but after breaking it in for a few hours, that began to change. It started to sound warmer and the mid-range accuracy improved. After about 36 hours, the sound was spectactular."

I guess its good for Rick that he didnt sell them the first hour he had them. He might have missed hearing the spectacular sound.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by M Rael Speaking of the Omega 2's, heres part of a review I found: "..but after breaking it in for a few hours, that began to change. It started to sound warmer and the mid-range accuracy improved. After about 36 hours, the sound was spectactular." I guess its good for Rick that he didnt sell them the first hour he had them. He might have missed hearing the spectacular sound.

I agree, reluctantly, that the voodoo audiophile BS of breakin is real and actual. The HD600s sounded notably better after some break in too, moreso than anything else I've listened to, including my speakers--an oddity there. However, the breakin difference was still subtle compared to my overall feelings about the HD600. Break-in matters, but only a little. Whether I'd spent $6300 on the Omega II or $800 on the W2002, both are large enough sums in my life to move me to sadness if they didn't sound damn good right out of the box.

In fact, I'm still in shock from the HD600s. I think maybe I'd built myself up to expect too much from them. There's that and the long listening session with big amps that has prevented me from selling them. The HD600s cost me less than $250 and they were still that disappointing. I'm almost certainly in for a world of hurt if I don't like the W2002. In that event, there will be another set for sale--though I doubt I'm willing to take quite so deep a loss on them as Ross did and I'll probably in the least try them on my HA-1, try them on the RKV, see if flumpus wants to hear them on his Melos, and allow a little time to break in and hit some different genres before giving up on them.

But at $800... they really need to be at least as good as the HD600 the first time I listen to them. That's REALLY not so much to ask.

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly ..both are large enough sums in my life to move me to sadness if they didn't sound damn good right out of the box.

I didnt like mine the first time I put them on. I dont think uvak liked his all that much either. And there have been other comments from new owners to the effect of 'I guess we'll see what happens.' My point is that there isnt a body of reviews to support the W2002's sounding great right off the bat. But I'm also not aware of another manufacturer saying themselves that their product might sound bright, harsh (or whathaveyou), when new. And that is what a/t does with the W2002.

But look, I'm not defending the W2002 'to the death' here.. its just a hobby and this headphone is one that I know something about. It gives me a chance to speak up, instead of lurking. I like talking about this hobby even when things get heated sometimes. When I played my headphones in I sometimes set the volume very high, and let them go that way for hours. Eventually the W2002 opened up for me, and the sound became very enjoyable.

p.s. I'm reminded of a really big comparison review a guy did who posts here, but he reviews for an established hardware website. He linked to his review (it was so big), he didnt post it here directly. Anyway, during the initial phase he mentioned playing in all the different headphones and explained how he did it. The reason I'm bringing it up here is: he clearly felt that some of the headphones he tested responded more dramatically than others to burning-in. So if true, you cant generalize and say the changes to the HD600 will be the same in nature to other headphones. Some are hardly affected at all by burning in, and some are affected greatly. It depends on the material they used in the diaphram and the suspension, and the trade offs involved in that.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by M Rael But I'm also not aware of another manufacturer saying themselves that their product might sound bright, harsh (or whathaveyou), when new. And that is what a/t does with the W2002.

The Sennheisers say this. I think most good speaker companies do, also.

Quote:

The reason I'm bringing it up here is: he clearly felt that some of the headphones he tested responded more dramatically than others to burning-in. So if true, you cant generalize and say the changes to the HD600 will be the same in nature to other headphones. Some are hardly affected at all by burning in, and some are affected greatly. It depends on the material they used in the diaphram and the suspension, and the trade offs involved in that. [/B]

What I was alluding to was that the HD600s were effected more dramatically by burn-in than I'd have expected and took far more time to settle in than the DT831s or 7506s did.

My generalization was this--even in dramatic instances, burn in is doubtfully going to be so great as to turn someone from disliking a headphone or speaker to liking it.

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly My generalization was this--even in dramatic instances, burn in is doubtfully going to be so great as to turn someone from disliking a headphone or speaker to liking it.

For simplicities sake I'll agree, but the first time I put the W2002's on (with zero playing in behind them) I did not have a good reaction. In fact I might just as well cut-and-paste what Ross said about them. My first thought was 'oh noooo! what have I done!'

And its NOT that in the time thats past I've just got used to the bad sound, so much so that I now actually prefer it (!)

What can I say? But for me the difference between now and then is significant. Also: you are correct about speaker manufacturers suggesting burn in. Sonus Faber burns in each speaker at the factory for 60 hours before they even ship! And its a given with 99.9% of the reviews of high end gear that I've ever read that they burn the gear in for greater or lesser times before getting down to reliable evaluating. And playing a speaker in means excercising the suspension-- not just vibrating the diaphram gently to the soothing sounds of Neil Sedaka (that wasnt dirested at you personally Kelly.)

 

[DanG]

Mark -- you've got to separate yourself from your headphones and realize that if someone doesn't like a headphone you like doesn't mean that he doesn't like you.

Ross has been here a while (a wink longer than you, if I remember correctly), and while I don't always agree with his opinions he's a valued member -- as are you. Please don't try to divide the community. I think it's fair to say that sometimes you can tell the character of the headphone even before a "proper" break-in. Just let Ross choose for himself what he wants to do.

And as for Ross buying and selling (probably at a loss) the AT headphones and then becoming the resident expert who hates them, I know that isn't the case. If Ross will have anything bad to say about those headphones in the future, I'm sure he'll qualify his remarks sufficiently.

 

[Tomcat]

Neil Sedaka? Forget about questioning the size of reproductive organs – this is a low blow: Neil Sedaka. Man, that’s gotta hurt.

I, too, find the decision of Ross to sell his W2002 without any break in hasty, to say the least. I would have liked to read his comments about their sound after the 50 hour break in period he had initially planned. What is his reason for acting this prematurely? Strange. Almost as strange as the exchange between Mark and Rick. Ah, wait a minute, no. That was stranger.

kelly,
I would indeed say that I didn’t like the W100 better than ANY of my headphones when I listened to them right out of the box. At the starting point, I could have told you that even the HD 600 was better (and that coming from me, that’s a lot, believe me). But then, after, I don’t know, 40 or 50 hours, I had to change my vote from “not so sure” to “there is a God”.

One more thought: it’s probably not only the drivers that need exercise, it’s the wooden enclosures as well.

 

[M Rael]

Thank you DanG, and thank you Tomcat (I'm not sure if I forgot to thank RickG for his penis advice, but if so, thank you too.)

DanG: I appreciate that first paragraph, but thats not the inspiration for what I posted. Frankly its just laughable to me at this point.. if anything, its interesting to me that someone bought his headphones in mere minutes, despite his reaction to them. I suggest you read Tomcats first paragraph directed at Kelly; it will be very instructive to you I think.

But who knows Dan, maybe Ross's method has the makings of a new school of audio component review. Sort of like a 'Name That Tune' idea.. 'I can evaluate that component in 10 minutes!' 'No!, I can evaluate it in 5 minutes!' 'No.. I can evaluate it in 2 minutes!'
'Uh.. I HATE the box it came in, it sucks!' Whatever. It seems strange and funny to me. Nothing more than that.

 

[Spad]

Sheez, where is Rodney King when we need him?

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by M Rael But who knows Dan, maybe Ross's method has the makings of a new school of audio component review. Sort of like a 'Name That Tune' idea.. 'I can evaluate that component in 10 minutes!' 'No!, I can evaluate it in 5 minutes!' 'No.. I can evaluate it in 2 minutes!' 'Uh.. I HATE the box it came in, it sucks!' Whatever. It seems strange and funny to me. Nothing more than that.

Without trying them, I don't like the upper end Grados. I don't even need to listen to them because I know I'd hate how they feel. I think it's possible and legitimate to dislike something based on aesthetics. If you hate something in the first 10 minutes, you may get moved toward tolerance later on, but I doubt you'd be moved all the way over to "these are awesome, a real bargain at $800!"