[SolarCetacean]

Yeah, the Yamaha seems to benefit from a synergistic chain (referring back to my ZX707 vs WA22 comparison), and right now I don't think I have such a chain. My current chain is optimized for estats, so it's heavy on emphasizing the macro-dynamics to compensate for that traditional estat weakness, but I don't know if the Yamaha would do well on such a chain for me. I'm fine with building a synergistic chain, but the headphones have to intrinsically (without the chain) be appealing - compelling - enough for me to justify the cost of the chain. I don't know yet if the Yamaha is compelling enough to warrant both it and the chain. But it is certainly interesting and I am eager for another chance to demo it.

I agree that the midrange is going to be the make-or-break point for a lot of people. I personally prefer that more distant presentation to vocals. I want vocalists to sound like they're singing on a stage to the audience in the room, not to me in particular. I think the YH5K does that sort of distance well, while not thinning out the vocals either like most headphones with greater stage depth. That combination is what makes it so interesting to me. But it's very unlike what "normal" headphones sound like. I have a friend who's also into audio, and he has the opposite preference; he wants vocalists to sound like they're sitting in front of him and he prefers that more forward and intimate presentation. The Yamaha by analogy is like an unusual ice cream flavor, like the asparagus-flavored ice cream that's a local favorite in Amherst, Massachusetts. Some people love it, or grow to love it, and others will hate it.

 

[HiFiDJ]

I'm not in that group but playing devil's advocate, being chain dependent could be a fatal flaw in itself for some people especially if they want a one and done solution.

For sure, I can sympathize with that. But there are other options for more forgiving headphones.

I absolutely agree with the sense of energy though, compared to the Utopia 2022 for example when I was comparing the two the YH-5000SE had some extra speed, air and a sense of crispness and dynamic that the Utopia didn't have. This isn't to say that the Utopias were bad but in the field of presentation the Utopias felt like it was more tightnit whereas the YH-5000SE is really dynamic in it's sound cue presentation.

Yeah, it kind of makes the utopia (pre-20 is what I have) boring but only by comparison. I usually reference the utopia as analytical-smooth while the yh5k analytical-sweet. I think for macrodynamics, slam, smoothness, and holographicness the utopia edges out the yh5k. The utopia carries its own charm for sure but over time, for me, my desire for it has run its course.

If anything the biggest achilles heel for the YH-5000SE, if you ask me is the mids/vocal presentation which could be offputting to people who don't enjoy how they are further back in the soundstage.

A few impressions on here have also reported that but, for me, it hasn't been my experience at all, and I'm picky with vocals. For reference, the mysphere beats out the yh5k in midrange resolution and texture but even in comparison, they're not that far off from each other imo. If the mysphere ceased to exist, the yh5k would have the best midrange I've heard so far. The d8kp, on the other hand, now that has a slightly recessed midrange presentation.

 

[jamesjames]

Yeah, the Yamaha seems to benefit from a synergistic chain (referring back to my ZX707 vs WA22 comparison), and right now I don't think I have such a chain. My current chain is optimized for estats, so it's heavy on emphasizing the macro-dynamics to compensate for that traditional estat weakness, but I don't know if the Yamaha would do well on such a chain for me. I'm fine with building a synergistic chain, but the headphones have to intrinsically (without the chain) be appealing - compelling - enough for me to justify the cost of the chain. I don't know yet if the Yamaha is compelling enough to warrant both it and the chain. But it is certainly interesting and I am eager for another chance to demo it.

I agree that the midrange is going to be the make-or-break point for a lot of people. I personally prefer that more distant presentation to vocals. I want vocalists to sound like they're singing on a stage to the audience in the room, not to me in particular. I think the YH5K does that sort of distance well, while not thinning out the vocals either like most headphones with greater stage depth. That combination is what makes it so interesting to me. But it's very unlike what "normal" headphones sound like. I have a friend who's also into audio, and he has the opposite preference; he wants vocalists to sound like they're sitting in front of him and he prefers that more forward and intimate presentation. The Yamaha by analogy is like an unusual ice cream flavor, like the asparagus-flavored ice cream that's a local favorite in Amherst, Massachusetts. Some people love it, or grow to love it, and others will hate it.

I agree the Yamaha can create a sense of distance from an apparent performance space - an audience member's perspective. This is critical I think for convincing replay of recordings of acoustic instruments. I now think this is perhaps the only quality it shares with the phones I enjoy. And even this can often be swamped by other aspects of the Yamaha's presentation (with the result I've tried to describe above) - in an effort I guess to capture the warmth and 'edgeless' quality of live performance. I speculate the unusual tuning (effectively removing parts of the conventional mid/treble presence band) is designed to achieve a richer version of the HD800S. An interesting idea. A great pity it doesn't work for me.

EDIT: I've tried to tidy this up, to give a better sense of what I mean.

 

[jrkong]

I always found the stock pads a little soft for my taste and my glasses tend to create a bit of an indent in the pads which I'm sure will wear them out sooner rather then later. So I had a crazy idea after a bit of poking around and one of my little brothers is taking mechanical engineering so having the skills to model things in 3D I wanted to get his help with a silly little science experiment...

Let the pad rolling adventures begin.

 

[jrkong]

Here are some quick notes for the pad change change so far:
I'm using a pair of cheap Brainwavz pleather pads at the moment as they are 100mm x 100mm. When I measured the original pads they were roughly around 95mm-98mm so they were the closest to the original size that I could find. I've got a pair of sheepskin earpads I wanted to use but these were my experimental pads, where if they were ruined then that's fine.

So sound impressions, boy were the sound changes immediately apparent the new pads sound more intimate and give a more in your face presentation especially when compared to stock leather pads.

TLDR here: They make them warmer, dulls the siblence of the treble by taking away some of the energy, bass is more relaxed and more prevelant, brings up the mids a bit

I notice an immediate loss in the airy presentation that the stock leather pads have, instead the pleather pads have a very in your face intimate presentation. If I were to make an analogy it's almost like going from an open back to a close back and brings back the "headphone-y" presentation vs the more open speaker-like out of your head sound the YH-5000SE usually have. It's almost like comparing a hyperactive child bouncing all over the place to a more laid back kid taking their time with things.

This has a very fun effect on the sound as it pushes the mids (especially the vocals) up a bit giving them a more forward presentation and I prefer listening to the yammys more on clinical solid states like the THX-789 compared to the Cayin HA-3A you see in the picture since it cools off the warm kick these pads give.

If I were to guess the changes I'm hearing have to do with how the pads affect the resonance and decay of the frequencies especially the bass and it's happening more abruptly then with the jersy material on the stock pads and that's what accounts for the changes we hear on the ultrasuade pads as well.

For some extra fun I've got some Dekoni velour, sheepskin, fenestrated and choice suade pads incoming. Given my current observations I've got high hopes for the fenestrated pads as they'll give more air to the YH-5000SE. Funnily enough, the entire Dekoni endevor is going to cost me about as much as one pair of official pads...

 

[TSAVJason]

They're definitely unique and not easy to describe. It's not the kind of headphone where I can say "HD650 on crack" or "follows the harman curve with stellar technical prowess" and call it a day. From a technical perspective I definitely think they're top notch especially compared to the other flagships I've had the chance to listen to but their presentation is so unique that there's a lot for someone to either love or hate them depending on where their preferences swing.

Yup it’s a tuff headphone to describe. I just tell people it’s one of those headphones you really need to have a good listening session with. Lots of mixed impressions….. but that happens on many products right?

 

[jrkong]

Yup it’s a tuff headphone to describe. I just tell people it’s one of those headphones you really need to have a good listening session with. Lots of mixed impressions….. but that happens on many products right?

It's not descriptive at all but, bipolar and unapologetic. The YH-5000SE offer a unique blend of characteristics where I would expect people to either love or hate it. If it works it's amazing but if it's not your cup of tea then it's not great at all. If the Utopia 2022 with it's safe approach is a 8/10 the YH-5000SE will either be a 6 or a 9-10 depending on if you like the delivery. That's the make or break here. From a technical perspective the YH-5000SE is undeniably top notch but the delivery is absolutely dependent on the preferences of the listener.

 

[Midian27]

Good point, it's absolutely a matter of taste and the yamaha is pretty chain-depended too.
Not because of your example but as an fresh owner of a Utopia 2022 I don't get why those two are compared so often.
They are have a completly different approach on sound. Like night and day.
I would possibly compare the yamaha more with the Final D8000 (Pro).

 

[HiFiDJ]

Good point, it's absolutely a matter of taste and the yamaha is pretty chain-depended too.
Not because of your example but as an fresh owner of a Utopia 2022 I don't get why those two are compared so often.
They are have a completly different approach on sound. Like night and day.
I would possibly compare the yamaha more with the Final D8000 (Pro).

I haven't heard the 22 only the pre-20... I think they're worth comparing because both are, imo, analytical cans and one of the strengths they both share is treble quality. Additionally, both are generally dynamic and upper-mid focused (slightly). Picky too. So they sorta have the same goals but the execution is very different. The final, on the other hand, is quite different from it.

 

[jrkong]

Good point, it's absolutely a matter of taste and the yamaha is pretty chain-depended too.
Not because of your example but as an fresh owner of a Utopia 2022 I don't get why those two are compared so often.
They are have a completly different approach on sound. Like night and day.
I would possibly compare the yamaha more with the Final D8000 (Pro).

For me personally it's because I haven't had that much time with the D8000 Pro. When I tested them I didn't like the presentation at all and when I was going to decide between flagships the YH-5000SE and the Utopia were the ones that grabbed my attention the most and made the strongest impression for me. If anything it's because of the night and day difference that made me want to own both the Utopia and the YH-5000SE when I first tested them. Though I think I'll have more fun fiddling around to see what I can get out of the Yammys now.

 

[Strayngs]

I've owned the OG Utopia twice. I don't know about the 22 version but there's not much to compare to with the yammy and the OG utopia. Completely different headphones with much different strengths and weaknesses. Not a good comparison at all.

 

[jamesjames]

I've also owned the original Utopia twice - and sold it twice. I think it's significantly less good than the other dynamic phones I've mentioned above for classical music. But I find it much more convincing than the Yamaha - completely different. I would urge anyone (particularly those who find my preferred phones too analytical) to audition the Focal before buying the Yamaha.

EDIT: But, in terms of current models, I would urge those interested in a 'weighty' presentation also to try the Beyerdynamic T1.3 - more engaging than both the Focal and Yamaha by a considerable margin in my opinion - and less than one quarter of the cost in Australia. While they're too warm for my taste - probably warmer even than the Focal - I think they do better with imaging. It costs nothing to try - and you might feel, like me, that it's possible to get a much better result at much lower cost.

 

[up late]

a review that is quite critical of the yh-5000se's sound signature and rather long - you've been warned :

 

[Umwelt]

Pretty helpful review. Do owners or those who auditioned it agree about the kinda honkey or megaphone-like sound of the mids this reviewer talks about?

 

[up late]

can't say i noticed that when i auditioned it but i do relate to much of what he said regarding its sound signature