[IgeNeLL]

Some final thoughts on the YH5000SE – having listened now to a wide range of classical music with various amps. The presentation has been stable from first listening.

While I typically prefer dynamic phones, I think the Yamaha has some appealing qualities. I find it can be quite beguiling in the way it deals with lower frequencies. I think of these phones as building on weight and power.

But for me the recessed mid-band (as I hear it – I haven’t measured it) remains a problem.

I think the Yamaha can deliver good detail and timbre with some recordings. But I feel the mid-band presentation imposes some significant constraints. Clarity and precision can be lost in a wash of sound when musical lines are complex. To my ear the Yamaha lacks the refinement and delicacy of good dynamic phones in terms of separation and dynamic shading. The music often feels slightly closed-in as a result.

Surprisingly, I find the Yamaha can also be a little ponderous and congested when bass lines are complex – not lithe or articulate – another problem for a ‘natural’ presentation, I think.

Perhaps my response to the Yamaha just tends to confirm a personal preference for a diffuse-field tuning – which does seem critical in my case to capturing the life in classical music. But, for what it’s worth, I can’t really imagine anyone who values the open spaces and separation of phones like the HD800S and ADX5000 being happy with the Yamaha.

I think the problem results from the stock cable, which is made from silver plated cooper.
I do hear the signature of SPC on YH5K which can be described as:

• Smooth and warm tonal especially mid to low mid-section. I do hear a nice tonality in the vocal section, with great amount of airy representation and airflow in the presentation, but it still lacks some clarity.
• Slighty emphasize on low treble, which make cymbal sound more presence but lack of micro tiny envelope after the strike.

 

[jamesjames]

I think the problem results from the stock cable, which is made from silver plated cooper.
I do hear the signature of SPC on YH5K which can be described as:

• Smooth and warm tonal especially mid to low mid-section. I do hear a nice tonality in the vocal section, with great amount of airy representation and airflow in the presentation, but it still lacks some clarity.
• Slighty emphasize on low treble, which make cymbal sound more presence but lack of micro tiny envelope after the strike.

That strikes me as extremely unlikely - I certainly wouldn't buy the Yamaha in the hope that it would sound ok with a new cable.

 

[up late]

x2 (even though it's frowned upon by the forum mods)

 

[Reactcore]

Hi, can someone, ideal some owner, give some advice which head amp works fine with the YH-5000SE?

I really enjoyed the yamaha on chord dave and feliks envy but that is a bit too expensive for me.
The budget is about 4000-5000€/$.

Since you liked the Dave with it,
You could try TT2 as this has a superb amp section internally to drive directly.
Chord also recently dropped TT2's retail price.
And theres no TT3 coming soon.

 

[fidgeraldo]

i appreciate that you did not comment on the sound of the yh5000se in your post but you did make other assertions, which is why i asked the question.

I did explain everything, but you still haven't; what bothers you with my enthusiasm? You just asked a question. Is this a court, and you are a judge, hmm? It reminds me of Curb your enthusiasm and Larry David whose big fan I am, even though I haven't met the guy.

Cheers!

 

[vkenz]

I did explain everything, but you still haven't; what bothers you with my enthusiasm? You just asked a question. Is this a court, and you are a judge, hmm? It reminds me of Curb your enthusiasm and Larry David whose big fan I am, even though I haven't met the guy.

Cheers!

Just quickly go to your nearest audio shop and audition it. There, problem solved. I'm sure you will enjoy the experience.

 

[up late]

I did explain everything, but you still haven't; what bothers you with my enthusiasm? You just asked a question. Is this a court, and you are a judge, hmm? It reminds me of Curb your enthusiasm and Larry David whose big fan I am, even though I haven't met the guy.

Cheers!

i don't have a problem with your enthusiasm. yes, i asked a question. no, this is not a court and i am not a judge. i think that we've taken this exchange about as far as it can go.

 

[fidgeraldo]

Just quickly go to your nearest audio shop and audition it. There, problem solved. I'm sure you will enjoy the experience.

I wish I had the store to audition them. Most of the headphones I have bought, I bought without auditioning, based on what I have found among your comments and my conclusions. The only flagship headphones I bought after auditioning were the HD800S and HD820.

Until then, I will enjoy reading the positives and your excitement, and ignore the negatives.

Cheers!

 

[jrkong]

I'm at my local headphone shop comparing the YH-5000-SE and the Focal Utopia (2022) again thinking I'd walk out with a Utopia since my shop has them on discount and rather then walking out with a pair of Utopias I'm walking out with the thought, "I NEED TUBES!"

At the shop I'm listening to a DMP-A6 -> Cayin HA-1A mk2/HDV 820 so nothing crazy but it's what they had on hand.

So to preface my intention and goal this time around, my biggest issue with the YH-5000SE is it's vocal presentation is further back when compared to most other headphones which gives them a stereo feel which is fun but it is a very specific sound. Sometimes it felt like there was something missing in the body of the midrange. The kicker here is this is on solid state amps.

This time around I started by listening to tubes first. On the tubes the YH-5000SE get that extra energy in the mids I thought they were missing and the difference was pretty noticeable too for my ears. When I was listening to tubes the YH-5000SE won pretty decisively over the Utopias for me. Whenever I swapped over to the Utopias I found that they lacked a certain energy that the YH-5000SE have and they were trailing behind when it came to soundstage presentation. So much so that I wondered why the Utopias left such an impression on me when I first tried them.

This was apparent after I swapped back to a solid state amps where the quirks of the Yammys and the warmer presentation of the Utopias made it a much closer competition on a solid state amp though there were still times where the Utopias felt less resolute and energetic compared to the YH-5000SE.

The takeaway from all this? I'm on the market for a tube amp now.

 

[jamesjames]

I'm at my local headphone shop comparing the YH-5000-SE and the Focal Utopia (2022) again thinking I'd walk out with a Utopia since my shop has them on discount and rather then walking out with a pair of Utopias I'm walking out with the thought, "I NEED TUBES!"

At the shop I'm listening to a DMP-A6 -> Cayin HA-1A mk2/HDV 820 so nothing crazy but it's what they had on hand.

So to preface my intention and goal this time around, my biggest issue with the YH-5000SE is it's vocal presentation is further back when compared to most other headphones which gives them a stereo feel which is fun but it is a very specific sound. Sometimes it felt like there was something missing in the body of the midrange. The kicker here is this is on solid state amps.

This time around I started by listening to tubes first. On the tubes the YH-5000SE get that extra energy in the mids I thought they were missing and the difference was pretty noticeable too for my ears. When I was listening to tubes the YH-5000SE won pretty decisively over the Utopias for me. Whenever I swapped over to the Utopias I found that they lacked a certain energy that the YH-5000SE have and they were trailing behind when it came to soundstage presentation. So much so that I wondered why the Utopias left such an impression on me when I first tried them.

This was apparent after I swapped back to a solid state amps where the quirks of the Yammys and the warmer presentation of the Utopias made it a much closer competition on a solid state amp though there were still times where the Utopias felt less resolute and energetic compared to the YH-5000SE.

The takeaway from all this? I'm on the market for a tube amp now.

I've seen a number of posts on the difference valves can make. For another perspective, I'll mention that I've listened at some length to the Yamaha using the iFi ICAN on various valve settings. I didn't find any dramatic difference in presentation - the differences were limited to additional mid-bass warmth in particular - and some reduced mid-high intensity - particularly in the 'full' valve mode. Having owned the Focal - which isn't a favourite - I found it more balanced and capable across the spectrum - whatever the amp.

 

[Strayngs]

I've seen a number of posts on the difference valves can make. For another perspective, I'll mention that I've listened at some length to the Yamaha using the iFi ICAN on various valve settings. I didn't find any dramatic difference in presentation - the differences were limited to additional mid-bass warmth in particular - and some reduced mid-high intensity - particularly in the 'full' valve mode. Having owned the Focal - which isn't a favourite - I found it more balanced and capable across the spectrum - whatever the amp.

Yes but with all due respects the ICAN is a hybrid and not a true tube amp.

 

[jamesjames]

Yes but with all due respects the ICAN is a hybrid and not a true tube amp.

'True'?

 

[Strayngs]

'True'?

Yes, true or real or actual. The hybrid is more like a solid state amp with a tube buffer.

 

[jamesjames]

Yes, true or real or actual. The hybrid is more like a solid state amp with a tube buffer.

Well, I'm not sure quite what you mean. The iFi can be switched between separate JFET and valve output stages.

But, in any event, the striking point for me has been the recurring suggestion/acceptance that the performance of these phones - which cost thousands of dollars - may be significantly compromised unless some very particular post-purchase steps are taken. This seems to include: only using particular kinds of valve amplifiers; using special cables; operating them for many hours (hundreds?) before listening seriously. This seems to me different to the idea that the performance of decent phones will always be pretty good but may sometimes be usefully 'tweaked' with amps, cables, etc.

 

[Strayngs]

Well, I'm not sure quite what you mean. The iFi can be switched between separate JFET and valve output stages.

But, in any event, the striking point for me has been the recurring suggestion/acceptance that the performance of these phones - which cost thousands of dollars - may be significantly compromised unless some very particular post-purchase steps are taken. This seems to include: only using particular kinds of valve amplifiers; using special cables; operating them for many hours (hundreds?) before listening seriously. This seems to me different to the idea that the performance of decent phones will always be pretty good but may sometimes be usefully 'tweaked' with amps, cables, etc.

Hybrid tube amps can be fantastic as well. They will give the tube feeling and flavor to a solid state amp. I've had a couple of them in the past. My favorite being the wells audio dragon level 2. They do bring some of the characteristics of a tube amp to a solid state but not all of them. I had the ican pro alongside a primaLuna tube amp. If you listen to them side by side you understand the difference. Nothing wrong with the Ican. It was a fine amp.

I agree this headphone has a lot of "requirements" to sound it's best. People really do have to weigh whether it's worth it to them to get that type of sound.