[rb2013]

  Its annoying because I run a headless server without a permanent monitor attached.  I paid for the D16 because I thought it had passthrough for my few 176 files and for its form factor.  The Mutec would not solve this problem.

No I'm not saying the Mutec would solve your SR rate change on the fly - but it would go towards taking the REDNET SQ to another higher level.
 
So instead of REDNET 16d = $1600
 
REDNET3 $1000 + Mutec 3+ $800 = $1800

 

[rb2013]

Roon will have a short shelf life. I give them 2 years before the next big media player comes along if it hasnt already.

They are getting a lot of audio media buzz  - I guess they hope to lock up enough users at $120/yr or commit to the $500 upfront fee.  Then they'll have a revenue stream monetized.  And that's per machine (aside from a portable device I guess), not per user.

At least with WaveLabs 6.0 they use a USB dongle that can be moved from machine to machine.

 

[rb2013]

Now the REDNET is not the perfect implementation of AES67 AOIP - but it is here and now - not a Unicorn or Vaporware.
 
It was designed for a different purpose - so the cost is high and the functionality is for the studio environment.  So it's not optimized for our purpose.
 
But what is does is superb sound - a leap frog over the herculean uber USB chain I had before (and now in my office system).
 
But it is just the first step for us Audiophiles - it's a gateway into the possibilities of AES67 AOIP.  I'm sure a unit with only 2 channels running a LP'S and maybe other tweeks will surpass it in SQ.  All these things will come with Raveena or Dante in the future.
 
But I for one an so happy to have it.  It's been running super stable (not one unlock, freeze or crash) in my main system for over a week now.  Even in a 96 degree Seattle heatwave.
 
Album after Album a revelation.  Even the 30-40 yr old stuff - just sounds stellar.
Last night listening to Jerri Tull - Benefit, Stand Up, Minstrel in the Gallery.
The results amazing.  Of particular note the sound staging - deep and wide with absolute precision imaging.  The musicality and ease just great.  A major leap over USB.
 
There is more to come on the AOIP train.

 

[BucketInABucket]

  Hi guys,
 
I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but have any of you worked out a proper case solution for the F-1?

Bump

 

[Acrobat77]

Hi all, very interesting thread! Happy Roon and microRendu user here and I'd like to correct some things. Occamsrazor is right.
 
Roon can output to almost any computer connected device which should include the DVS since it's known to the system as a virtual soundcard e.g. using the ASIO protocol. See also this page https://kb.roonlabs.com/Architecture for all supported output devices and the Roon building blocks (Core, Control and Output). The DVS would qualify as a 'local device so you could use Roon installed with 'Core' only for headless machines and remote control with something like an iPad for example or the full Roon installation which includes a local running GUI (it installs Roon's core, control and output functions).
 
RAAT is Roons proprietary streaming protocol and not related in any way to DLNA/uPnP/OH, lot's of detailed information about it here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/RAAT
 
The Sonore microRendu is a 'Roon Ready' device which means it is an endpoint certified by Roon Labs and uses a hard- and software tailored version of RAAT. More info on Roon Ready here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_partner_programs
 
There's also a slimmed down output only Roon install for Windows/Mac/Linux called Roon Bridge. It acts as an endpoint and receives a music stream using RAAT over ethernet. More info on it here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/RoonBridge
 
---
 
The microRendu is more than just a uPnP renderer, it can function in all modes below:
 
(source http://www.microrendu.sonore.us/)
 
Mode #1 - SqueezeLite Output - This output works with any Logitech Media Server and compatible controllers. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM and DSD/DoP.

Mode #2 - ShairPort Output - This is an AirPlay emulator that utilizes streams sent to it from a compatible source. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM.

Mode #3 - MPD/DLNA Output:

Mode #3a - DLNA Output - This output utilizes streams from UPNP/DLNA servers and controllers. This output can be configured as an OpenHome renderer. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #3b - MPD Output - This output is intended to work with a SMB mount. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #4 - HQ Player NAA Output - This output utilizes streams from Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by HQ Player and then asynchronously streamed to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) output. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.
 
Mode #5 - RoonReady Output - This output utilizes streams from Roon. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.
 
 
 
---
Just as an FYI introduction (first post here), my current system is: PS Audio P3 Power Plant, Lessloss DFPC/DFPC Signature power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Sonore microRendu, Curious USB cable, Mutec MC-3+ USB, DH Labs D-110 AES/EBU, Devialet 250, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112
 
There's also a pair of gigabit TP Link fiber ethernet converters with Cisco GBICs between the current PC based 'NAS' running Roon and the microRendu. The FMC close to the microRendu is LPSU powered.
 
 
In the past I have used or tried the Regen, Jitterbug and Intona USB Isolator (Industrial version) and some different ethernet (like AQ Diamond) and USB cables (including Audioquest, TotalDAC D1, Kingrex, Supra). My PC consisted of (the microRendu has replaced it):
 
JCAT USB interface + JCAT battery PSU
Paul Pang/PPA Studio Red SATA cable
Windows Server 2012 R2 standard with Audiophile Optimizer, JPlay, Fidelizer Pro
PSU: HDPlex 100W Linear PSU + HDPlex HiFi 250W DC ATX PSU
Network: gigabit optical fiber converters for full galvanic isolation

Case: Streacom FC5 WS EVO
Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5
CPU: Intel Core i3-4350T 35W dual core 3.1gHz hd4600
RAM: G.Skill RipjawsX 8GB (2x4GB kit F3-12800CL7D-8GBXM), CL7
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD
Internal star earthing and earthed shielding of certain components like the JCAT, twisted DC cables in part shielded
AC powered by PS Audio P3 Power Plant

 

[mourip]

Quote:

  Hi guys,
 
I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but have any of you worked out a proper case solution for the F-1?

 
 
I do not have an F1 but there are several posts with pictures in this thread.
 
Try around page 39...

 

[rb2013]

  Very interesting thread! Happy Roon and microRendu user here and I'd like to correct some things. Occamsrazor is right.
 
Roon can output to almost any device which should include the DVS since it's known to the system as a virtual soundcard e.g. using the ASIO protocol. See also this page https://kb.roonlabs.com/Architecture for all supported output devices. The DVS would qualify as a 'local device so you could use Roon installed with 'Core' only for headless machines and remote control with something like an iPad for example or the full Roon installation which includes a local running GUI (it installs Roon's core, control and output functions).
 
RAAT is Roons proprietary streaming protocol and not related in any way to DLNA/uPnP/OH, lot's of detailed information about it here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/RAAT
 
The Sonore microRendu is a 'Roon Ready' device which means it is an endpoint certified by Roon Labs and uses a hard- and software tailored version of RAAT. More info on Roon Ready here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_partner_programs
 
There's also a slimmed down output only Roon install for Windows/Mac/Linux called Roon Bridge. It acts as an endpoint and receives a music stream over ethernet. More info on it here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/RoonBridge
 
---
 
The microRendu is more than just a uPnP renderer, it can function in all modes below:
 
(source http://www.microrendu.sonore.us/)
 
Mode #1 - SqueezeLite Output - This output works with any Logitech Media Server and compatible controllers. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM and DSD/DoP.

Mode #2 - ShairPort Output - This is an AirPlay emulator that utilizes streams sent to it from a compatible source. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM.

Mode #3 - MPD/DLNA Output:

Mode #3a - DLNA Output - This output utilizes streams from UPNP/DLNA servers and controllers. This output can be configured as an OpenHome renderer. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #3b - MPD Output - This output is intended to work with a SMB mount. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #4 - HQ Player NAA Output - This output utilizes streams from Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by HQ Player and then asynchronously streamed to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) output. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.
 
Mode #5 - RoonReady Output - This output utilizes streams from Roon. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.
 
 
 
---
Just as an FYI introduction (first post here), my current system is: PS Audio P3 Power Plant, Lessloss DFPC/DFPC Signature power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Sonore microRendu, Curious USB cable, Mutec MC-3+ USB, DH Labs D-110 AES/EBU, Devialet 250, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112
 
There's also a pair of gigabit TP Link fiber ethernet converters with Cisco GBICs between the current PC based 'NAS' running Roon and the microRendu. The FMC close to the microRendu is LPSU powered.
 
 
In the past I have used or tried the Regen, Jitterbug and Intona USB Isolator (Industrial version) and some different ethernet (like AQ Diamond) and USB cables (including Audioquest, TotalDAC D1, Kingrex, Supra). My PC consisted of (the microRendu has replaced it):
 
JCAT USB interface + JCAT battery PSU
Paul Pang/PPA Studio Red SATA cable
Windows Server 2012 R2 standard with Audiophile Optimizer, JPlay, Fidelizer Pro
PSU: HDPlex 100W Linear PSU + HDPlex HiFi 250W DC ATX PSU
Network: gigabit optical fiber converters for full galvanic isolation

Case: Streacom FC5 WS EVO
Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5
CPU: Intel Core i3-4350T 35W dual core 3.1gHz hd4600
RAM: G.Skill RipjawsX 8GB (2x4GB kit F3-12800CL7D-8GBXM), CL7
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD
Internal star earthing and earthed shielding of certain components like the JCAT, twisted DC cables in part shielded
AC powered by PS Audio P3 Power Plant

Thanks for all the links and posts.  I'm curious with such a high end system - why the microrendu  and not the rendu signature?  It appears to have a very nice BNC spdif out, better clocks, better isolation.
 
The cost of your microrendu chain + the Mutec 3+ USB would be pretty close to the cost of the Signature.  My experience with the Mutec 3+ USB was good, but not excellent.  The XMOS USB card they use is kinda mediocre U-8/Ave clocks and of course the Mutec 3+ USB uses a SMPS Meanwell PS.

 
http://rendu.sonore.us/signature-series-rendu.html

 

Introducing the ​

Sonore Signature Series Rendu​

.  We looked at the standard Rendu, already providing fantastic performance in many systems, and thought hard about how it might be improved, how we might lower jitter, and improve on its digital precision.  We decided the correct way to go would be to upgrade all facets of the design making incremental improvements which add up to considerable performance gains.  The power supply is upgraded both in parts quality and layout.  The big addition is the new isolated, clock/re-clock, output board.  By specification, the Ethernet input is already isolated from the noise on the network, but there is still some noise produced on the processing board.  To generate an absolutely pure clock signal, we added a separate, isolated, output board with a separately regulated power supply.  This output board holds the dual Crystek CCHD oscillators, the re-clocking circuitry, and the output drive circuitry for SPDIF and I2S.  Because the Signature Series Rendu generates clean clocks and then reclocks on the output board right before the SPDIF and I2S output jitter is lowered even further.  Additionally, a very special SPDIF driver circuitry results in a perfectly clean SPDIF waveform which allows one to get the best out of any SPDIF input DAC.  While the original Rendu has set the Ethernet to SPDIF and I2S standard up to now, the new ​

Signature Series​

Rendu takes performance to the next level, this is the best SPDIF and I2S we can make, and we suspect that you will think so as well.​

SIGNATURE SERIES FEATURES
Beautiful custom made case built in the USA
Custom made footers with Sorbothane isolators
Power supply with internally shielded Plitron transformer (the best, from Canada)
QSpeed super soft diodes
Low ESR caps
Ultra low noise discrete linear regulators
Custom made Sonore output board with SPDIF (BNC 75 Ohm) and LVDS i2s (HDMI) 
Ultra high quality SPDIF output
Output re-clocking totally isolated from the processor board
All signals re-clocked on the isolated board in an ultra low noise environment via low phase noise oscillators (Crystek CCHD Series)
Blue Jean bonded Ethernet cable with test certificate

 
 
Then you could use i2s not SPDIF?

 

[rb2013]

I don't see anywhere on this list how you can use a open source non-DNLA player (other then HQ Player) - even if you were keen on paying the $500 upfront Roon license per machine:
 

Mode #1 - SqueezeLite Output - This output works with any Logitech Media Server and compatible controllers. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM and DSD/DoP.

Mode #2 - ShairPort Output - This is an AirPlay emulator that utilizes streams sent to it from a compatible source. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM.

Mode #3 - MPD/DLNA Output:

Mode #3a - DLNA Output - This output utilizes streams from UPNP/DLNA servers and controllers. This output can be configured as an OpenHome renderer. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #3b - MPD Output - This output is intended to work with a SMB mount. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #4 - HQ Player NAA Output - This output utilizes streams from Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by HQ Player and then asynchronously streamed to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) output. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.
 
Mode #5 - RoonReady Output - This output utilizes streams from Roon. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.
 

 

[atomicbob]

Three questions that I have yet to find answers in this thread (I'm sure they are in there but my google-fu is weak today):
 
1. Simple crossover cable or gigabit switch
2. If gigabit switch, which one
3. UTP or STP cable

 

[rb2013]

  Three questions that I have yet to find answers in this thread (I'm sure they are in there but my google-fu is weak today):
 
1. Simple crossover cable or gigabit switch
2. If gigabit switch, which one
3. UTP or STP cable

Regarding REDNET AES67 or ICRON/Startech GB LAN Iso USB Extender?

 

[atomicbob]

Rednet D16 Dante Virtual Audio Cable

 

[rb2013]

  Rednet D16 Dante Virtual Audio Cable

This should answer any questions you have on the networking - I use a UTP cable - but according to some folks a CAT 7 STP could be used if one end of the shielding is disconnected to preserve galvanic isolation (or a ethernet galvanic isolator if you need to use STP cables)
 
https://www.audinate.com/sites/default/files/PDF/adding-dante-to-your-network-audinate.pdf
https://www.audinate.com/sites/default/files/PDF/advanced-dante-networking-avnw-2015-audinate.pdf
 
PS This was posted over on my other thread on ethernet isolators:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-the-coming-wave-the-aes67-and-avb-ethernet-protocols-usher-in-a-new-age-of-computer-audio/75#post_12632055

 

[Acrobat77]

 
Thanks for all the links and posts.  I'm curious with such a high end system - why the microrendu  and not the rendu signature?  It appears to have a very nice BNC spdif out, better clocks, better isolation.
 
The cost of your microrendu chain + the Mutec 3+ USB would be pretty close to the cost of the Signature.  My experience with the Mutec 3+ USB was good, but not excellent.  The XMOS USB card they use is kinda mediocre U-8/Ave clocks and of course the Mutec 3+ USB uses a SMPS Meanwell PS.

 
http://rendu.sonore.us/signature-series-rendu.html
 
 
Then you could use i2s not SPDIF?

 
Hi rb2013,
 
I kind of grew into these solutions as I initially used WiFi and later ethernet using Devialet's proprietary ethernet/WiFi streaming protocol called 'AIR'. Having an IT background I initially didn't believe things could sound different, 'bits are just bits' right? I was so wrong! After trying out some things I learned from the computeraudiophile forum things went quickly and I also figured out that using a tweaked computer USB could actually sound better than the WiFi and ethernet inputs of the Devialet. (still can't explain the why or hows behind this with certainty).

Another preconception I had was that ethernet/WiFi and USB should in theory be better than the S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs on the Devialet. Wrong again! I found out in practice using the Mutec MC-3+ USB that it improved SQ significantly (I learned about the device from a fellow Devialet owner). This could of course also be because of the Mutec being a better DDC and re-clocker than the Devialet USB/ethernet internals which I today consider to be 'mediocre' as you called the Mutec's USB input (which I don't agree with! To me it's sounds brilliant in tandem with the microRendu).
 
Because of the above the Sonore Signature Rendu had never been on my radar and it never got really much press attention and little user reviews as well. Also I now see it's available in a 220/230V version but this option must have been added recently, it used to be 110V only. The Devialet unfortunately doesn't have an I2S input so I can't use that. Another thing that held me back was the fact that I am in The Netherlands and importing stuff from the US is expensive (shipping+customs duties and VAT).
 
I'm not saying the microRendu is my "end station", I'm actually very interested in Ravenna/Dante or any other audio over ethernet/IP protocol. Devialet AIR being similar, functionality wise, was one of the reasons I bought the Devialet. I didn't like finding out though that it doesn't support automatic sample rate switching, so that's a setback for me.
 
I'm waiting for the four rail custom Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4 PSU to arrive, it will power my Mutec, which I will mod, as well (and the microRendu, Anti-Mode and FMC).

 

[mhamel]

  Three questions that I have yet to find answers in this thread (I'm sure they are in there but my google-fu is weak today):
 
1. Simple crossover cable or gigabit switch
2. If gigabit switch, which one
3. UTP or STP cable

 
 
1 - Crossover cable not required. Ports are auto-sensing and will sync up either directly connected or via a switch.
2 - It should work with most if not all GigE copper switches, and should even work over 10/100, especially when we're talking two channel audio. The highest network utilization I've seen on the link I'm using for Dante has been around 20Mbit/sec. We are really only using a fraction of the capacity of the network for stereo audio purposes.
3 - UTP, though as Bob pointed out, if you want to use STP and want to maintain isolation across the network connection, probably better to have the shield only connected at the source.  Also, if you are using AES out, it is also transformer coupled right at the interface.

 

[Acrobat77]

  I don't see anywhere on this list how you can use a open source non-DNLA player (other then HQ Player) - even if you were keen on paying the $500 upfront Roon license per machine:
 

 
Well it's true, you can't. The microRendu is not a virtual soundcard. The only workaround I can think of is using an application like Jamcast (never tried it) which installs as a virtual soundcard and converts all sound output to a uPnP/DLNA stream. Personally, and I believe like you,I'm not a fan of uPnP/DLNA so I've never tried Jamcast nor have I ever had the need.
 
Anyone that values the "directly connected" computer audio functionality/experience with which you can output sound or music from any program running on a computer (whether it is currently through an internal/extern soundcard, USB or ethernet) should indeed go for a Ravenna/Dante like solution or stick to the 'old' ways but not go for a microRendu. Even Devialet AIR is trouble ridden so even as an owner I wouldn't currently recommend that either.
 
The microRendu OTOH is very versatile, more so than an Aurender, Aries or whatever commercial streamer so if it offers what you need I think it's a great value.