X-fi Elite Pro vs Asus Essence ST

Dec 20, 2009 at 9:59 PM Post #46 of 82
The friend of mine who is the engineer I was talking of in the previous post was Jack Strayer. He worked for A&M records, Disney Studios & a number of others. He was a electronics engineer. Whenever he went into a studio that had transistor gear he & his crew working with the studio personel removed the transistor gear & install thier own tube gear for the recording sessions they were working on to get the best possible sound.

The amps in question that he was working on before he got sick & died was sold to Red Rock Audio. They modified his design with different lower quality parts & proceeded to sell them at an exstravagant price never invisioned by Jack strayer. Jack was going to sell them for $7,000. Red Rock audio was asking 40,000 last I seen.

In the review posted by 6 moons audio reviews they mentioned that jack was old school & didn't believe in certain parts selections. What they didn't realize was Jack was actually extremely meticulous with his parts selection & used parts that were top gradeoff the shelf or custum designed by people that were 1 in a million in thier understanding of the device they were designing & precious few others could actually design his particular output transformer for example. Jack had even approched the transformer company that makes Red Rocks transformers & they said they couldn't do the type of design. The disign that Jack specified was very difficult to wind or even calculate the reactances within it because of the complex windings but done right it could have flat response well beyond the audio spectrom with very little phase shift. Someting that is impossible with standard transformer design such as what was used in the Red Rock Renaissance amp. Even the speaker wire had to be custom ordered to the length required as the transformers characteristic output impedance matching was done inside the speaker wires amp end plug & was complex enough that it would have been impractical for most consumers & even for some recording engineers to do. By doing it this way though one could very quickly change to different impedance speakers as quickly as changing a plug.

The review of the Red Rock verion is here 6moons audio reviews: Red Rock Audio Renaissance

This is the high priced version that really meant for consumers, not the pro version made by Jack strayer my friend. I spent a fair amount of time with both Jack & his amp to know that it really did sound better than any of the high priced tranny amps or tube amps we compared it to.

All this is to say please don't think it bad that I say something has a tube like sound as it is indeed the highest compliment that I can give. Jacks amps sound was full of life & body without sounding harsh. Unlike the old design consummer tube amps these had had high frquency extention up the kazoo all the way up into AM radio land 500KHz + & full power bandwith that was truely flat 10Hz to 30KHz, a far cry from the 30Hz to 15KHz +or- 3db of the older consumer tube gear.

Here is a link to Jack Strayers original amp.http://www.nutshellhifi.com/VSAC98.html It is second picture from bottom. This is the stereo model in powder coat black. The 50watt monoblocks looked just like this but had only 2 small signall tubes in the center position. There was also a brushed stailess steel top version. The stereo version had 2 chassis, one for power supply & one for the amp itself. The mon blocks were four chassis to get stereo set up the same way as the stereo version. The stereo version had 572-10 tubes & the monoblocks used 811 tubes both from Svetlana.

These amps weren't just Class A amps but Class A1 limited meaning they could not be driven out of Class A as as soon as you approached the Class A limit the small signal tubes were set up not to be able to drive any current so the amp would go into soft clipping at the class A1 limit.

Jack strayers amp is the top amp on the list of amps used at Opus 4 studios http://www.opus4studios.com/Opus4Studios/Equipment.html. I also knew Dr. Mike Matesky from when I was a member of the Pacific Northwest Audio Society, Dr. Mike Owns Opus 4 & He was involved with building it at that time.
 
Dec 20, 2009 at 11:19 PM Post #47 of 82
I highly disagree with the OP's impressions. I've found the exact opposite and I've owned both cards (well...I owned the STX not the ST).

I've owned a lot of soundcards (re profile) and the STX was definitely the best one I've tried, especially with the 3xLME49720NA. I tested with various headphones and a couple amps (for the line-out).
 
Dec 21, 2009 at 1:14 AM Post #48 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The X-Meridian 7.1 was/is a awesome soundcard. Especially with some nice opamps installed.


Couldn't agree more. Despite several attempts at something new, I still keep putting it back into the computer.
Haven't heared STX, but X-fi just doesnt do it for me.

And STX and X-Meridian are both based around CMI8788

I guess it's very much a question of personal preference
 
Dec 21, 2009 at 2:08 AM Post #49 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by germanium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The friend of mine who is the engineer I was talking of in the previous post was Jack Strayer. He worked for A&M records, Disney Studios & a number of others. He was a electronics engineer. Whenever he went into a studio that had transistor gear he & his crew working with the studio personel removed the transistor gear & install thier own tube gear for the recording sessions they were working on to get the best possible sound.

The amps in question that he was working on before he got sick & died was sold to Red Rock Audio. They modified his design with different lower quality parts & proceeded to sell them at an exstravagant price never invisioned by Jack strayer. Jack was going to sell them for $7,000. Red Rock audio was asking 40,000 last I seen.

In the review posted by 6 moons audio reviews they mentioned that jack was old school & didn't believe in certain parts selections. What they didn't realize was Jack was actually extremely meticulous with his parts selection & used parts that were top gradeoff the shelf or custum designed by people that were 1 in a million in thier understanding of the device they were designing & precious few others could actually design his particular output transformer for example. Jack had even approched the transformer company that makes Red Rocks transformers & they said they couldn't do the type of design. The disign that Jack specified was very difficult to wind or even calculate the reactances within it because of the complex windings but done right it could have flat response well beyond the audio spectrom with very little phase shift. Someting that is impossible with standard transformer design such as what was used in the Red Rock Renaissance amp. Even the speaker wire had to be custom ordered to the length required as the transformers characteristic output impedance matching was done inside the speaker wires amp end plug & was complex enough that it would have been impractical for most consumers & even for some recording engineers to do. By doing it this way though one could very quickly change to different impedance speakers as quickly as changing a plug.

The review of the Red Rock verion is here 6moons audio reviews: Red Rock Audio Renaissance

This is the high priced version that really meant for consumers, not the pro version made by Jack strayer my friend. I spent a fair amount of time with both Jack & his amp to know that it really did sound better than any of the high priced tranny amps or tube amps we compared it to.

All this is to say please don't think it bad that I say something has a tube like sound as it is indeed the highest compliment that I can give. Jacks amps sound was full of life & body without sounding harsh. Unlike the old design consummer tube amps these had had high frquency extention up the kazoo all the way up into AM radio land 500KHz + & full power bandwith that was truely flat 10Hz to 30KHz, a far cry from the 30Hz to 15KHz +or- 3db of the older consumer tube gear.



Nice post. I have an engineering friend that I have been working with for two years. We are building something weird indeed. It would take too long to describe but think sound like having speakers everywhere and I mean everywhere in one special room. We are just using two 10 foot tall, 800 lb towers but my goodness. Overkill? Yep. Fun though! I love acoustics.

Oh and for sound cards? I just use them for digital transport to an external dac. ATM I just use a X-Fi titanium DTS out into my BA receiver. Sound is acceptable. Lots of noise in most pc cases. I have not bothered with tweaking the pc yet.
 
Dec 21, 2009 at 3:08 AM Post #50 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by lo_noise /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Couldn't agree more. Despite several attempts at something new, I still keep putting it back into the computer.
Haven't heared STX, but X-fi just doesnt do it for me.

And STX and X-Meridian are both based around CMI8788

I guess it's very much a question of personal preference



I wouldn't take a Creative X-fi over a X-Meridian 7.1 either not for straight sound quality.
 
Dec 24, 2009 at 4:35 AM Post #51 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I highly disagree with the OP's impressions. I've found the exact opposite and I've owned both cards (well...I owned the STX not the ST).

I've owned a lot of soundcards (re profile) and the STX was definitely the best one I've tried, especially with the 3xLME49720NA. I tested with various headphones and a couple amps (for the line-out).



I agree with you, Totally oposite impressions than the OP here too.
 
Dec 24, 2009 at 5:20 PM Post #52 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by spacemanspliff /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nice post. I have an engineering friend that I have been working with for two years. We are building something weird indeed. It would take too long to describe but think sound like having speakers everywhere and I mean everywhere in one special room. We are just using two 10 foot tall, 800 lb towers but my goodness. Overkill? Yep. Fun though! I love acoustics.

Oh and for sound cards? I just use them for digital transport to an external dac. ATM I just use a X-Fi titanium DTS out into my BA receiver. Sound is acceptable. Lots of noise in most pc cases. I have not bothered with tweaking the pc yet.



I have had line source speakers before & thought they sounded wonderfull but setup was a chore as they tend to be very directional in the vertical plane, Even 1/2" difference in tilt of the speakers could throw off the imaging as the speaker that was tilted wrong would lose it"s high frequencies. I understand that if you use multiple drivers & incorperate a progressive delay as you move away from the center speaker that it will act more like a point source & not be so picky for tilt. A 10 foot tall line source would amost have to incorperate this. Maybe you aren't using a line source though, it just seemed like you might because of the hight of the speakers.
 
Dec 24, 2009 at 6:22 PM Post #53 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
discretes?
biggrin.gif


8772404cfc05cb580d84adb0b12f8b2f.jpg


these will kill those chips on the Elite Pro for sure! but I also love LT1124ACN8(kudos to SpudHarris for recommending it to me), you should try it sometime.



This Mod is just.............Amazing
 
Dec 24, 2009 at 8:03 PM Post #54 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by fenk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This Mod is just.............Amazing


Marko modded that card awhile back. Known around here as GWorlDofSPACE.
He modded the card using burson discrete opamps with modified Caps and he went further and changed out the master clock with a higher precision unit. The card has since been parted out and sold off, IIRC.
Modding soundcards is a great way to get the most out of them.
 
Dec 28, 2009 at 4:40 AM Post #55 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by fenk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This Mod is just.............Amazing


I can't tell for the clock upgrade, but I can definitely confirm that the Burson's sound AMAZING...mixed w/ the AD797B(on the card in my signature), they have *completely* cured my op-amp rolling sickness...and that's saying a lot
vignos.gif


there's more soundcards mods there: http://bursonaudioblog.blogspot.com/...aded-with.html

Asus+Xonar+STX+sound+card+with+Burson+opamps++4.jpg
 
Dec 28, 2009 at 10:05 AM Post #57 of 82
Read the review by stereophile today & they liked it quite a bit but guess I'm going to have to wait on thier full assessment of the headphone amp but they did say it was good though.

Much better than the squeezebox @$300 but not quite up to the level of thier $2,500 dollar Ayre DAC setup. I think however that by removing the output coupling caps that the Xonar STX could in fact match it as most of the types of differences they heard can be attributed to those caps.
 
Dec 28, 2009 at 12:17 PM Post #58 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by InFn-0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Leepery have you like plugged the opamps straight and not with an extension cable??


not enough room! and I don't use extension leads, these are the original soldered leads on the burson's...soldered w/ Cardas eutectic solder on high grade gold plated sockets, I don't get any static or stuff like that.
 
Dec 28, 2009 at 12:57 PM Post #59 of 82
Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
not enough room! and I don't use extension leads, these are the original soldered leads on the burson's...soldered w/ Cardas eutectic solder on high grade gold plated sockets, I don't get any static or stuff like that.


So you mean to say unless someone solders them like you did, discretes cannot be placed on the stx ??
ph34r.gif
 

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