[seanc6441]

So, lads, we've been talking HM5 pads a number of times and I'm looking to buy some for the HD6xx as well as Ref1s. Anyone had some experience with HM5s on them? There seems to be two types, fenestrated leather/velour (#10 version) or the all leather/pleather #1s. What concerns me is the height, they are way 'deeper' than the stock velour Senn pads, which will affect soundstage possibly significantly, nearly twice as deep. Any experienced comments are welcome before I push the go button. Cheers!

Using them without the plastic back plate will atleast cut the margin down somewhat right? Still considerably thicker overall. Won't sound as forward or intimate I'd imagine. I'd like to hear impressions though!

I've been too busy listening to my new Rose Mojito earbuds and waiting for my R6 dap to keep up with this thread, but I'll keep an eye out for your impressions

 

[sennsay]

Using them without the plastic back plate will atleast cut the margin down somewhat right? Still considerably thicker overall. Won't sound as forward or intimate I'd imagine. I'd like to hear impressions though!

I've been too busy listening to my new Rose Mojito earbuds and waiting for my R6 dap to keep up with this thread, but I'll keep an eye out for your impressions

I bought the fenestrated leather/velour hybrid HM5s They will go on the HD6xx for now. I figured that since great results came when using the Dekoni versions on these headphones (the tests on Head-Fi by Dekoni) and they are also quite deep and soft, so the HM5s can do the job for me too. Since they don't have to come from overseas for a change (!), they are also much cheaper for me to buy at $20AU, compared to nearly four times that for the imported Dekoni pads. At least to start with, I can play with the HM5s and see how I like them. Maybe the Dekoni versions are of higher quality, I don't know, but I'm happy to hear what the HM5s bring to the picture.

 

[Malfunkt]

The past meets the present. The 540G sounds so much more musically and enjoyable. That sound stage on the hd800s though...

Have to say, I'm enjoying a very similar setup at the moment. Just got a pair of HD800s this weekend! And just got my 540s back today.

Just some live listening impressions between these two sets:

The 800s are incredible, impressive and are perfect for so much of my listening - especially classical and ambient. I have no intention of modding them with the SDR. I like their sound as incisive as it is and it works with the best source material.

Listening to the 540s at the moment with a couple favourite test albums. Bill Evans Trio - Explorations and Jazz at the Pawn Shop

There are some obvious differences, but also there is a family heritage between the sets. The 800 spreads out the sound and divides up the instruments. The 800 seems a bit more controlled on the bass and the overall sound is more expansive.

The 540 is warmer overall. And I think I prefer the overall tonality for jazz on the 540. There is definitely some similarities between the two signatures.

The 800 is remarkable, with room ambience more realistic, background chatter alive, but also just a tad sharper on vibraphone and more present. Not that this is wrong. With the 540, the sound seems a bit more balanced. Quite smooth on the 540. Once you start listening you melt in. The 800 is bigger, cooler, wider, and has a life of its own. Both brilliant.

On the electronic spectrum, the very well engineered Ochre - Beyond the Outer Loop.

On the 800 - glitch percussion carefully pierces your eardrums, bass is tight, delineated and sinks low. You are impacted by the reverb created by the percussion, you can sense it moving around you.

HD 540 - same track - wow. Those sometimes detestable sharp highs from the 800 (that personally I'm fine with), are just not here on the 540. You still have plenty of detail. Not as separated, bass is quite good.

I'm going to say that the 540 has some more natural aspects of timbre in its frequency response, whereas the 800 sometimes can feel someone dialed up the 'sharpen image' button a bit. Conversely, the 800 has the ability to expand, image, and separate sound; this in itself is an organic and natural aspect that mitigates some of the slight artificial aspects of its presentation. The 540 is going to play well with a wider range of music, and still perform well on very dynamic material.

It's hard to fault the 540s FR curve. It remains competitive and artful after all these years.

 

[seanc6441]

When will Sennheiser release the HD1540?

Would be something else xD

 

[sennsay]

The pads and things have started arriving in the mail box this morning. First up are the HD250 Linear 'orhpolster' pads from Germany and with them came the HD400/410 pads from the US to become the inner foams for the German pads on the Linear 1s. I had to cut the thin mesh from the centre of the German pads, they just get in the way and wrinkle if you leave them in and they won't allow the plastic back ring to clip in very well either. I tried the pads without the clip ring, but it's too variable in the bass, as the pads lift easily from the correct position, bass quality and quantity is mucky. No go.
So, success means cutting out the mesh, using the clip rings, accurately place the HD400/410 pads in the centre of the drivers, clip the new pads in and slip the silver outer rings back onto the capsules. Done. - see pic.
Well, I can tell you that the bass increases significantly and the mids and treble are very nicely integrated and smooth. No brightness at all. The leather pads are quite comfortable yet I find the mid bass to be too full, obscuring some detail. This is quite normal for many of todays bass heavy cans, but it's not for me. So ..... I wondered what the velour DT880 pads would sound like and on they went. Similar in what happens with the bass, yet really very evenly so and not so boofy in the mid bass. I like them, comfortable and very balanced overall. Good with the HD6xx cable, better again with the Mogami, which, every time I go back to it, lets me hear how incredibly linear it is. There's just no editorialising with it and so transparent that the slightest alteration of anything up the chain is easily heard. If you don't like the results while using it, then look elsewhere because it's not the cable! Same when I used it with the rather forward sounding Sony MDR-1Rs, I created a 4' length Mogami 2893 in place of the stock cable and the sound balance overall didn't change much, but ohh the transparency sure did! Now I can hear how forward they are with great clarity! I wondered if I might get a smoother sound with it, but no, the Mogami is no tone control, it tells it like it is and that's that ..... beautifully!
There is a slight extra forwardness with the German leather pads too, it can sound like extra detail but isn't and it loses some relaxation capacity where you can have intimacy (like the Ref1s) and not have anything pushing at you at the same time. I'm equally sure that many folks will like that extra bit of focus forward. The DT880 velour pads allow for more intimate relaxation.
The pic below shows the German leather pads installed and you can see the upturned edge of the HD400/410 foam pad inside the cup. It is actually more centred than it looks here.

 

[quimbo]

I brought the pads from my 250 into work to use them on the HD 540 Ref IIs. When I pulled the old pads off, everything was together on the plastic ring and I had to cut them out with a small knife. Everything is fine with that. There are some black foam specks on the white part of the headphones. What is the proper way to remove the foam specks?

 

[sennsay]

I brought the pads from my 250 into work to use them on the HD 540 Ref IIs. When I pulled the old pads off, everything was together on the plastic ring and I had to cut them out with a small knife. Everything is fine with that. There are some black foam specks on the white part of the headphones. What is the proper way to remove the foam specks?

I had a little bit of that happen to my old pads, I just used a light paint brush to ease them off the white grill. I don't think you can damage the driver as this is just the protective grill over them. Heck, you could even try blu-tack.
My very nice looking HD430s are on their way now, it will certainly be interesting to hear them with the Schiit stack. At 600 ohms I imagine they will sit quite nicely in the system, as both the 300ohm and 600 ohm headphones use very similar amounts of power, effectively. Sometimes it's only the difference between 2pm and 3pm on the dial for similar volume, other times at virtually identical settings.

 

[quimbo]

I'll have to pick up a brush tomorrow. Some of it was almost adhered to the white, I had to gently rub it to get it off. I think they were the original pads but really don't know. The 2 540s and the 250 now have new pads and some ear pad cushions are on the way for the 250s. I think I am all set on these, though I could always get another Venus audio cable. I share a cable at home with the 540 Ref I and the 250 and have another cable for the 540 Ref II at work.

Last 3 months have been quite the journey. 5 vintage headphones, 2 cables, 3 sets of ear pads and one set of cushions. A Lyr 3 Amp and 8 tubes. It all started with your post on the Magni 3 forum about the 540s.

 

[sennsay]

I'll have to pick up a brush tomorrow. Some of it was almost adhered to the white, I had to gently rub it to get it off. I think they were the original pads but really don't know. The 2 540s and the 250 now have new pads and some ear pad cushions are on the way for the 250s. I think I am all set on these, though I could always get another Venus audio cable. I share a cable at home with the 540 Ref I and the 250 and have another cable for the 540 Ref II at work.

Last 3 months have been quite the journey. 5 vintage headphones, 2 cables, 3 sets of ear pads and one set of cushions. A Lyr 3 Amp and 8 tubes. It all started with your post on the Magni 3 forum about the 540s.

Aw, that's awesome How do you find that Venus Audio cable? Is it the 2893 version, or the 2534 (I think). Thinner v thicker. Sigh, I can't do the tube thing again just yet, it sure is fun, I just have other things happening.

 

[quimbo]

Aw, that's awesome How do you find that Venus Audio cable? Is it the 2893 version, or the 2534 (I think). Thinner v thicker. Sigh, I can't do the tube thing again just yet, it sure is fun, I just have other things happening.

I bought these - https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEIS...0-HD6XX-HD660S-MOGAMI-CARDAS-1-4/122113609321 - I had to shave down the ends to get them to fit. Its a nice cable, a little heavy but thats ok by me

 

[sennsay]

I bought these - https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEIS...0-HD6XX-HD660S-MOGAMI-CARDAS-1-4/122113609321 - I had to shave down the ends to get them to fit. Its a nice cable, a little heavy but thats ok by me

That be them. Shaving the ends is the usual process, next time I will be slightly less generous in my shaving I'm about to make myself a shorter cable than the stock 10' length I copied from the original cable. I really only need 4-5'. V.A don't say in this ad whether they use the 2534 cable, I assume they do because that's what they quoted in the original ads I saw. I know that they can use the slightly thinner 2893 if they are asked.

 

[dakanao]

I bought these - https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEIS...0-HD6XX-HD660S-MOGAMI-CARDAS-1-4/122113609321 - I had to shave down the ends to get them to fit. Its a nice cable, a little heavy but thats ok by me

Do you know notice a difference in sonics compared to the cable you were using before? If so, what would the difference be?

 

[sennsay]

The difference is huge. A completely linear sound from the very bottom to the top end, it will tell you exactly what is happening with your amp and DAC side of things, as well as the quality of your source. Basically, the Mogami cable is an open book, just as a top class microphone cable should be that's used in studios worldwide. If you hear something dodgy it won't be the cable! It's not a tone control. While the stock HD6XX/HD650 cable is pretty good, the Mogami bests it easily in extention and an extraordinary ability to leave the signal alone, letting it speak for itself and allow voices to sound exquisitely human and fleshed out. Again, source and amp/DAC dependant, the Schiit stack is brilliant at that.
The stock cable that came with my now 29 year old Ref1s, adds an upper midband edge, overall grain and less density in the bass. Still good if you have nothing else, but the HD6xx cable is quite superior and fits right in there too. It has slightly less of an effortless presentation and seems to push the mids a little forward of neutral, a touch brighter, though clean with it and is a good option with the Senn HD540s.
The Mogami passes music with a sonic ease that is hard to beat. Effortless dynamics too.


Again and again, I make changes to the Ref1s and always come back to the sheer ....... here's that word again ... effortless musicality of the pleather pads and Mogami 2893. Did it again last night and I really don't know why I bother Popped the new German 'orhpolster' pads in and they lasted maybe 10 minutes. They thicken up the mid bass and make it a little thumpy, sharpen up the mid focus and there is a noticeable lessening of the sheer 'out-of-the-head-and-cans' disappearing act that just happens like magic with the shallower pleather pads and their oval ear openings, AND is de rigeur for the HD540s even as stock. Those German pads did exactly the same with the HD250s as well, so it seems I haven't found the best home for those pads yet. They appear to compress and colour the bass, whereas my favourite pleather pads allow the bass to flow unhindered in a completely linear fashion. Although there is great depth and weight, an organic aliveness that seems to evade everything else I put in the Ref1s, it never colours the lower midrange. For example, Daft Punk's R.A.M., specifically Giorgio Moroder, where Giorgio's resonant voice is never coloured by the thumping bass beat underneath it, something easily noticeable with the HD250s no matter what I did.
I'm considering my options with the HD250s, the guy who sold them to me said that he would happily buy them back if I decided that I didn't want them. I may do yet. I'm thinking that the money shagging around with them might be better spent on a set of HD540 Ref Golds.
The only thing I want to try now is to use an even thinner inner foam in the Ref1s, just to see if I can add just a smidgeon of greater illumination in the very top end. They are pristinely clear and focused as they are, I would just like to hear the house lights turned up a little biddy bit If I can't do that without denigrating anything else, they will be complete as they are, their JOY Level is already outrageously satisfying. Nothing can 'out-rhythm' them! Some come close but miss out in other areas. Refs Rule!

 

[quimbo]

Thank you for that reply @sennsay. I don't do a lot of detailed analysis with audio, I just know what sounds better to me in terms of switching out tubes. cables, pads, etc. Glad there are folks like you that can articulate the details.

 

[dakanao]

The difference is huge. A completely linear sound from the very bottom to the top end, it will tell you exactly what is happening with your amp and DAC side of things, as well as the quality of your source. Basically, the Mogami cable is an open book, just as a top class microphone cable should be that's used in studios worldwide. If you hear something dodgy it won't be the cable! It's not a tone control. While the stock HD6XX/HD650 cable is pretty good, the Mogami bests it easily in extention and an extraordinary ability to leave the signal alone, letting it speak for itself and allow voices to sound exquisitely human and fleshed out. Again, source and amp/DAC dependant, the Schiit stack is brilliant at that.
The stock cable that came with my now 29 year old Ref1s, adds an upper midband edge, overall grain and less density in the bass. Still good if you have nothing else, but the HD6xx cable is quite superior and fits right in there too. It has slightly less of an effortless presentation and seems to push the mids a little forward of neutral, a touch brighter, though clean with it and is a good option with the Senn HD540s.
The Mogami passes music with a sonic ease that is hard to beat. Effortless dynamics too.


Again and again, I make changes to the Ref1s and always come back to the sheer ....... here's that word again ... effortless musicality of the pleather pads and Mogami 2893. Did it again last night and I really don't know why I bother Popped the new German 'orhpolster' pads in and they lasted maybe 10 minutes. They thicken up the mid bass and make it a little thumpy, sharpen up the mid focus and there is a noticeable lessening of the sheer 'out-of-the-head-and-cans' disappearing act that just happens like magic with the shallower pleather pads and their oval ear openings, AND is de rigeur for the HD540s even as stock. Those German pads did exactly the same with the HD250s as well, so it seems I haven't found the best home for those pads yet. They appear to compress and colour the bass, whereas my favourite pleather pads allow the bass to flow unhindered in a completely linear fashion. Although there is great depth and weight, an organic aliveness that seems to evade everything else I put in the Ref1s, it never colours the lower midrange. For example, Daft Punk's R.A.M., specifically Giorgio Moroder, where Giorgio's resonant voice is never coloured by the thumping bass beat underneath it, something easily noticeable with the HD250s no matter what I did.
I'm considering my options with the HD250s, the guy who sold them to me said that he would happily buy them back if I decided that I didn't want them. I may do yet. I'm thinking that the money shagging around with them might be better spent on a set of HD540 Ref Golds.
The only thing I want to try now is to use an even thinner inner foam in the Ref1s, just to see if I can add just a smidgeon of greater illumination in the very top end. They are pristinely clear and focused as they are, I would just like to hear the house lights turned up a little biddy bit If I can't do that without denigrating anything else, they will be complete as they are, their JOY Level is already outrageously satisfying. Nothing can 'out-rhythm' them! Some come close but miss out in other areas. Refs Rule!

I ordered the HD 540 a few hours ago. Also messaged the guy on Venus Audio.

Can't wait to listen to them when they arrive...