would the amp-equalizer makes a flat signature Headphone,to be bass monster signature?
May 25, 2018 at 2:04 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

caprireds

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for example , the shure closed back srh-480 ,is said to be
Overflow with detail but lacks deep punch in lower frequencies

on the other hand V-moda or those monsters are described as deep, bassy punchy sound signature...

my question :if I connect those flat sounding studio headphones to amplifier and equalize them ,by elevating the lows ...V shaped for example, would they sound like those punchy bassy headphones by default?

thanx
 
May 25, 2018 at 3:06 AM Post #2 of 15
Not really... crank up the EQ enough and you'll hit the physical limits of the driver. Best to get a HP close to your preferred sound signature, and do mild EQ tweaks to get your final sound.
 
May 25, 2018 at 3:20 AM Post #3 of 15
Not really... crank up the EQ enough and you'll hit the physical limits of the driver. Best to get a HP close to your preferred sound signature, and do mild EQ tweaks to get your final sound.
Totally agree. Personally I do not really believe what EQ does LOL
 
May 25, 2018 at 6:03 AM Post #4 of 15
my question :if I connect those flat sounding studio headphones to amplifier and equalize them ,by elevating the lows ...V shaped for example, would they sound like those punchy bassy headphones by default?

Maybe. Your main problem when using EQ boost is that you're basically forcing the drivers to perform what they naturally can't, ie, produce more of a given frequency, and thus you get more driver distortion. If you equalized one headphone with a wide +xxdB boost in the bass region and then took an identical headphone without EQ, and played them through the same amp at a given loudness level (measured at 1000hz, or any other unaffected frequency), you'd hit distortion sooner on the EQ-d headphone.

At the same time, there's the matter of what settings those EQ settings will do - what the center frequency is, how much gain, how wide the effect is, etc. So even if you manage to avoid distortion it's hard to tell if you can get the results you want.
 
May 25, 2018 at 11:37 AM Post #5 of 15
thanx all for your nice reply... but I need more to understand...I'm really confused
for example
if we have specs of a headphone
Frequency range: 5 Hz - 25 kHz
and Driver size: 40 mm

and all the reviews says it is bass recessed ,in other words ,by default less responsive at low frequency levels isn't it? the same can be applied on the midrange and triple ,if claimed mid or triple recessed isn't it..
my question: isn't the headphone driver itself covers a wide range of frequency 5-25 ,and we can bring forward any frequency that is recessed by default using the equalizer?
for example the shure srh408 has frequency as low as 5 hz ,so they should be able to get you hearing the sub bass , when using equalizer isn't it? ot they provide such range of frequency range by default? if the second ,why I can't feel the omph ,listening to them with flat equalizer?

pardon my ignorance... but really my question is justified,and important for the new people on the audiophile community...

thanx all and waiting your comments..
 
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May 25, 2018 at 5:21 PM Post #6 of 15
Frequency range is a useless number. It's a marketing exercise. A HP with weak bass will be severely rolled off at 5hz, yet they can still claim it produces that frequency. It's similar to a car speedometer that goes up to 200 mph in 1.2L econo-box... theoretically possible in a vacuum and zero friction, practically not gonna happen. Some manufacturers refuse to even publish that number (see the MrSpeakers website)

More importantly is the frequency response curve. It takes a while to get used to interpreting it, but that will tell you what a headphone is doing at each specific frequency.
 
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May 26, 2018 at 2:24 AM Post #7 of 15
my question: isn't the headphone driver itself covers a wide range of frequency 5-25 ,and we can bring forward any frequency that is recessed by default using the equalizer?
for example the shure srh408 has frequency as low as 5 hz ,so they should be able to get you hearing the sub bass , when using equalizer isn't it? ot they provide such range of frequency range by default? if the second ,why I can't feel the omph ,listening to them with flat equalizer?

Giving you the absolute range that the headphone can produce doesn't tell you how well it produces any of that range. That range is basically meaningless if for example the response at 20hz is weaker than 2000hz by 5dB already (if not more). Which means just to hear 20hz you'll have to boost that by +5dB. And you're still nowhere near an actual bass headphone with a 20hz response that is +5dB louder than 1000hz, which means just to match that, effectively you're going to have to boost by +10dB. That kind of boost is almost guaranteed to have driver distortion.

You can try it, but don't say that nobody warned you about distortion. If your ears can't recognize the sound of drivers hitting X-Max that will be even worse since you don't know it's happening.

I'll put it this way. You have a car that can make 250lb/ft of torque at 4000rpm, but it feels sluggish. You want that heavy sedan to accelerate like a larger displacement model (like the V12 version of that car; or an American car with a V8). So you put a huge supercharger on that 2.5L 6cyl engine hoping to match the 460lb/ft at 2000rpm of a V12 car with variable valve timing. You make it run lean, you don't have an engine management computer that measures how lean that mix is, so you have no idea that at some point you've punched a hole through your cylinders and you start losing compression. Except in this case you can just get higher pressure fuel injectors and reprogram the engine management to pour more fuel in there.

One alternative to avoid driver distortion is to put a mild boost where it trails off in the bass, then reduce everything above 1000hz. That way in relative terms the bass will still be louder without forcing the driver to pump farther on its suspension just to produce high levels of boost to the low freq while still handling everything else.
 
May 27, 2018 at 12:52 AM Post #9 of 15
thanx
onevstheworld
ProtegeManiac for the information ...

would the flat signature shure srh440 or 840 ,sound as bassy, as the v shaped sound,Audio technica m50x,or V moda ,if the shures lows get equalized?

Well as everyone above has said, you'd be hard pressed to get much bass out of the SRH440 due to driver limitations. However, for the sake of your question, let's go under the assumption we have a perfect flat sounding transducer that is able to handle all EQ. Even with such a transducer it'd be practically impossible to make one headphone sound like another. There are more than 1 factors to how a headphone sounds than just the transfucer. The dampening, enclosure, etc all play a part.

My recommendation, if you want a bassier pair, just go out and buy one. I'd only use EQ to make small adjustments rather than to out right change the tonality of a headphone.
 
May 27, 2018 at 1:05 AM Post #10 of 15
How did this go on this long the answer is no.
 
May 27, 2018 at 3:06 AM Post #11 of 15
it's a multi variables problem:
a given headphone will have physical properties, and different reasons as to why they roll off in the low end. some simply have poor seal and just by paying attention to placement, you can already get a significant improvement in the low end. the SRH440 https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ShureSRH440.pdf seems to be one of those if you look at the various RAW measurements(grey lines). but you also can notice that even with the best seal, that headphone is still far from a bass heavy headphone.
the second relevant parameter for a given headphone will be how much distortions it will show in that area. if the readings on that PDF are correctly showing the headphone's behavior, we can assume that distortions in the low end will become noticeable if you push those frequencies really loud. which is something that could sound euphoric in some cases, but in general is not what we want to hear. we usually want more bass not more distortions.
and that leads us to the 30cent question, how loud would you plan to listen to music? if it's reasonable, then I see no reason why you couldn't get the low end boosted(or the rest attenuated, it's really the same thing once we remove the notion of output level). and if you want crazy low end rumble for loud bass head music, then with this specific headphone, you're likely to get a lot of crap added with the bass boost and it might just ruin your experience.

another potential issue with the idea of trying to get loud low end is that you need the amp to be able to provide the needed voltage. let's say you want +15dB boost at 30hz(if your EQ allows that much boost), that's likely to clip the signal on some songs, so you would first need to lower the digital gain to avoid clipping. so let's say you play it safe and lower the digital gain by 15dB to be absolutely sure that your EQ is never going to clip anything, you now need the amp to be able to provide the gain for your usual listening level, plus 15dB to compensate for that gain attenuation.
in most cases it won't be an issue if from the start you bought an amp with some headroom, but you can see how depending on the boost you require in the low end, the amp's maximum output can become relevant.

so unless you know what you're doing, or have the opportunity to just try and decide if you like the result, I wouldn't advise to get a headphone with weak bass and try to make it a bass head headphone. even if it works, there is probably a better headphone for the job somewhere. and as a very conservative rule of thumb, a roll off at the extreme low end or extreme high frequencies are not stuff you want to try to completely compensate with EQ if they're pretty significant. because those roll offs are very likely to exist because of a physical limitation for the headphone. so just feeding it a higher voltage is going to force it to do something it's already struggling to do, and the likely result will be rapid increase in distortions. the bigger the boost the more likely it is to really suck.
if it's just a moderate boost, then of course an EQ can do the trick. I have about +4dB boost on my hd650 in the low end, and +6dB on my ER4SR IEMs, and I really like what I'm hearing. but those are still pretty reasonable boosts and I'm a really quiet listener, so in the end with my boost applied, I still get fewer distos in the low end than what someone would measure at 90 or 100dB SPL. as I said at the start, a bunch of variables are involved and there is no one fit all answer. the headphone, your listening habits, the amp, how much boost you hope to get, they all matter.
 
May 28, 2018 at 2:15 AM Post #12 of 15
would the flat signature shure srh440 or 840 ,sound as bassy, as the v shaped sound,Audio technica m50x,or V moda ,if the shures lows get equalized?
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Like I already posted...you could, assuming

1a. Whatever EQ you use has the correct low freq as the center freq for where you will apply the boost.
1b. Whether that EQ has enough boost to compensate for the adjustment you need.
Ex: if you need to boost at around 20hz to 50hz, then you need a parametric EQ that has for example a low shelf EQ setting ( wich applies the boost to everything below the chosen center freq and a little bit above it) at 40hz, and then enough gain to match whatever bassy headphone's output you're trying to catch up to. If you only have a graphic EQ that has the lowest band at 50hz, then that's a problem.

2. That level of boosting low freq response doesn't end up making the driver pump too hard on its suspension to the point of hitting its excursion limit.
 
May 28, 2018 at 6:25 AM Post #13 of 15
would the flat signature shure srh440 or 840 ,sound as bassy, as the v shaped sound,Audio technica m50x,or V moda ,if the shures lows get equalized?
Why don't you get the M50x or V Moda? It doesn't sound like you've bought any Shure headphone yet, so in light of everything that has been discussed, isn't that the safest option?
 
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May 28, 2018 at 6:23 PM Post #14 of 15
thanx all of you...I have learned lots here.... reagarding the M50x or V Moda, occasionalyly I find good used deal on them ...but the problem , how can I trust them being original?!! the fake M50x looks in photos exactly the same as the original !!! I watchded once online video ,with someone telling that the only way to check it,is to open and check the driver itself !!! ... I can't do that and can't claim refund If i buy online used...
that is the problem , that is why I never bought any Sony , and when I bought the sennheiser hd598 ,i was lucky because the seller came to me and showed me the headphone ,and I checked it....

any way to check the originality of those M50x for example ?
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May 28, 2018 at 11:45 PM Post #15 of 15
thanx all of you...I have learned lots here.... reagarding the M50x or V Moda, occasionalyly I find good used deal on them ...but the problem , how can I trust them being original?!! the fake M50x looks in photos exactly the same as the original !!! I watchded once online video ,with someone telling that the only way to check it,is to open and check the driver itself !!! ... I can't do that and can't claim refund If i buy online used...
that is the problem , that is why I never bought any Sony , and when I bought the sennheiser hd598 ,i was lucky because the seller came to me and showed me the headphone ,and I checked it....

any way to check the originality of those M50x for example ?

If you're after mostly the bass then just get a Superlux HD660 for $60 or less.
 

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