[Icarium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziplock /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the whole "high-end" thing is completely blown out of proportion. If I bought a pair of $230,000 headphones and compared them to say an AKG K240 Sextett, they wouldn't sound all that different.

This is pretty off topic, but how do you qualify that statement?

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziplock /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the whole "high-end" thing is completely blown out of proportion. If I bought a pair of $230,000 headphones and compared them to say an AKG K240 Sextett, they wouldn't sound all that different.

Probably because they may turn out to be K240 Sextett's, fully loaded with diamonds and other bling-bling.

..and don't forget that Hi-End is not just about sound quality. Its also about build quality, parts quality, design, vendor support, and more.

Quote:

Most decent headphones can get you 90 - 95 percent of the sound you're looking for at an extremely reasonable price. This is considering you have an OK rig supporting them. But, to me, the land of diminishing returns and that last 5% are just not worth the time and money. So long as someone is willing to pay the price, manufacturers will continue to market their sub-par products at astronomically "high-end" prices. Thus the cycle is continued. It's not surprising to hear about products that do not make the cut for the price point. It seems in the "high-end" world, you don't always get what you pay for. Apparently, sometimes much less. I'm glad to see these kind of topics on Head-Fi.

Its those last 5-10% that make the whole difference between mid-/hi-fi and Hi-End. The last percents always cost way more than the first 90-95%. Thats just how it goes, for audio products, cars, boats, clothing, wine, ...

 

[Icarium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Probably because they may turn out to be K240 Its those last 5-10% that make the whole difference between mid-/hi-fi and Hi-End. The last percents always cost way more than the first 90-95%. Thats just how it goes, for audio products, cars, boats, clothing, wine, ...

Yep. It's how much a person wants to put into a hobby. I'm sure you and various other people invest a lot into various pursuits that we would consider silly/frivolous/simply not worth it. It's the sameeee thingggggg.

But I would like to hear more about how you qualify that 230k statement. Personal experience? Science? Logic? Please elaborate.

 

[Pacific Microsonics]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Germania, have you gotten a decent fit from the Qualias from the times you heard them? That might make a big difference in your assessment.

The difference for me was not only big, but with the wrong fit the sound was just.. wrong. Adjusting the angle slightly gives you either (most likely) the worst sounding thing you've ever put on, to (probably) one of the best.(unless you like slow muddy closed in things)

Adjusting the fit is only fine tuning. The actual size of the model in respect to your head is the most important issue. If the size is small and your head is big, no amount of fiddling will correct that.

 

[Anders]

Obviously worst for someone is bliss for another. Eventually, every component will come up on the list of awful sounding equipment!

 

[dvse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll start with one contribution: dCS P8i CD/SACD player. In a general sense, yeah this CDP was ok, I guess. But for a machine that cost $14K when it was production, it sounded pretty terrible - I mean we're talking $14K here! It should sound freakin' amazing!

If I remember correctly, your initial impressions were very positive: "the machine is absolutely flooring me"

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/dea...3/#post4281581

What happened that it turned into "pretty terrible"?? Surely even a few hours should be more than enough to make a reasonable call?


But indeed not all is well at dCS - a few years ago it was bought out by their marketing director I think and all the principal designers left. So now they've discontinued their realistically priced pro lineup and instead are pushing $70k+ audiophile craziness which is just the same thing in a 15kg aluminium case. P8i might have been the first product under new management.

 

[malldian]

Don't expect a reply..

 

[milkpowder]

I think the issue with the dCS P8i is that it is such a tremendous "meet" gear, meaning it impresses almost everyone the second they start listening like it did when I first heard it. The clarity, the speed and the precision is astounding. I came away totally floored too. What I didn't experience ere the more subtle, perhaps annoying "thorns" which one only notices through extended listening. It's not unlike the Stax Lambda series, which manages to 'fool' (for lack of a better word) every person who listens to it. You never really get to the nasty (or conversely juicy), intricate bits

 

[davidhunternyc]

I already contributed my 2 cents to this thread but someone else mentioned that not only is the high-end about sound quality but about build quality as well. This got me going about something I really hate. Since this forum is essentially about headphones, the one thing I hate about most headphones is their build quality, regardless of sound. I am sorry, but when you are paying $1000 plus for headphones, there should not be any cheap plastic on them! I can't stand the plastic on headphones! What gives?

 

[philodox]

Well, I was going to come here and post my list, but it seems that tkam has done it for me already. With the exception of the couple things I haven't heard, that is pretty much bang on Todd.

 

[ckoffend]

Theta Dreadnaught II in stereo (2-channel mode). Tried several different speakers (VS VR4 JR, Totem Forrest, Wilson Duette and Wilson W/P 5.1), different sources and different pre-amps. Different SC and IC's too boot. Nothing ever allowed this to sound good in 2-channel. The amp I had lasted about one week, sold it to a guy who kept it for less than a week for the same reason. I actually auditioned one later in a store to make sure the unit I had wasn't bad - sounded the same in 2-channel mode.

Best performance to price basis in high-end (obviously in my opinion):

#1: Aesthetix Calypso with Mullard 10M NOS tubes - you need to spend close to $10K new to better it
#2: Jeff Rowland Capri preamp used can be had for under $2K and I think new it is only $3K
#3: Resolution Audio Opus 21 with GNSC mods, can be had used for about $3200 ish, as an added bonus it has digital inputs and analog volume control.

 

[ldj325]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Grado GS1000. It failed to impress. Especially considering its price tag of USD 2,300 (NOK 12,000). That said. Sound quality is one of the main factors when giving a product the "High-end" grade. So those who fail on the sound part will never be graded "High-end" from me, regardless if it cost $100,000

Whoa, you guys must really have some kind of customs duty on imported gear. here in the USA the GS-1000 is list at $995 US. More than 200 % mark up, that's insane.

 

[ldj325]

The one thing I am taking away from this thread is a re-affirmation that we all hear differently (although there may be similar sub-groupings), we all have different sound preferences, and that system synergy/source material likely accounts for some of the various reactions.

For me, I have consistently not liked the K-701 (SE or balanced and various expensive re-cable jobs) for all the reasons previously stated, until I heard them recabled with lowly Mogami Quad 2534 balanced. Then I actually liked them a lot.

I was also very disappointed with the K-1000 until I heard it on a really high end 300b amp.

 

[troymadison]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well that's probably because all of those are clearly not "high end". That is what this discussion is about. Loving this thread and the impressions so far. Thanks to everyone that has contributed.

Yeah but I'd consider my cheap MB Quarts as top tier alongside my AKG K1000.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blubliss /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, but I have to completely disagree with this statement. From my SDS-XLR, I can't even listen to my HD650s any longer. The sound is so muddled, unrefined and thick, it's just not enjoyable (and i have tried different tube combos). In comparison, the L3000 and R10, especially the R10 are on par with my ES-2/HE90 combo. The music is exquisite, with a great soundstage and excellent tonality, especially on the strings and guitar. In my limited experience, there is no better phone than the R10 for classical. Now, whether it is worth 10x the price of the HD650 is another question. It is certainly worth it to me . IMO, the HD650 does not belong in the high end category. I used to like it before i heard other gear. I used to think i liked a lot of bass, it's dark signature, until i heard music in all its detail through the HE90 and R10.

you have the newer version of HD650? It has little less bass with more transparent high, although still not as transparent as R10, but much improved.