[Nadim]

A while ago I posted asking for suggestions for a work system. I did a fair amount of reading and research, and then it was all placed on the back-back-burner as I moved cross-country, bought a house and car, and generally let a lot of other things slide.

Anyway, I'm back, I'm still hungering for something better than my current setup, and my wallet is in the process of recovering enough that I might actually be able to do something (small) about it.

This is one of those "whole system" questions, but I'm not sure if any other forum is more appropriate than this one... Anyway, first, my requirements: I'm looking for a small system for work. Unlike some, security restrictions at my work environment doesn't permit me to use my computer for audio, much less to actually crack the case and replace the crap built-in audio with a decent sound card. However, it's a pretty safe place so I don't mind leaving gear there. Desk space is a premium, so I can't use full-size components...only the boutique-y small stuff. Also, I'm looking for a bang-for-the-buck type starter system, not a no-holds-barred system. That said, here's what I'm thinking...any and all comments are more than appreciated (otherwise why would I post this?

)

First things first, headphones: I'm thinking Beyer 770's.
Why? I want closed cans, but my Ety's are too much of a pain to take in and out, plus eating a bag of chips with lunch sounds like the building is collapsing...

I need something comfortable for hours at a time, and a slightly darker sound would probably be less fatiguing to my ears for all-day listening as well. The bass isn't bad either.

Second, what to drive them with.
I was thinking a cheap transport with an inexpensive outboard DAC and headphone amp can all be had together for the same price or less than the price of most of the smaller systems that would begin to be acceptable (like the Denon D-F101 I had my eye on earlier).

Transport: Sony CMT-EX5
Why? Cheap, small, good controls and CD-text display. After all, that's what I want from a transport anyway. Nicer than PCDP (tuner-wise and display-wise), and doesn't have a tape deck with record (no recording devices allowed...). Sound out-of-the-box is pretty crappy, but who cares, it's got a TOSlink out. I'll leave the speakers that come with it in the closet, or donate them.

DAC: ART DI/O or Channel Islands VDA-1
I can't quite decide on this one... The ART is cheaper and has gotten some good reviews, but it seems like a bit of a pain to interface with...since I'd have to get a TOSlink to coax converter box and RCA to coax connector, plus the hot output may cause additional problems. The Channel Islands DAC looks more suited to my application, but is a bit more, and I haven't found as many positive endorsements...

Amp: Corda HA-1
Why? Has gotten good praise, has crossfeed to play with, 120 ohm output (supposedly Beyer's like that?), is inexpensive.

I figure I should be able to get the Sony/ART/Corda for $700, or the Sony/VDA-1/Corda for $850... A little more than a Denon / Yamaha microsystem with a decent DAC and jack built in, but probably a little better too (and full of audiophilesque separate-component goodness).

I know the typical advice is, of course, "listen and decide for yourself", but none of these components (with the exception of the Sony, which is nicely designed, but has distinctly dissatisfying audio, when listened to with my Ety 4p's in the store) are available for me to listen to without buying and returning at my own shipping expense. So any nuggets of wisdom about better choices, things I've overlooked, or praise at my thoughts (sure....) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

-Nadim

 

[tangent]

A path you should consider, if you don't mind MP3s, is to put them on your hard disk and then use a USB DAC driving a headphone amp. I find that when listening to music at work I'm not looking for the ultimate in quality. My current work system is now a PJB-100 MP3 player (think "oversized iPod") with a META42 amp. I love this setup because it sounds pretty darn good, and I can put it in my backpack to take it home for adding new music to, recharging batteries, etc.

Previously I've used a USB DAC (stereo-link 1200) driving various amps, including the HA-1. This works fine, too.

Beware the temptation to play CDs in your CD-ROM drive. These drives aren't designed to be run continuously -- they'll croak after a year or so of continuous use, which will make you unpopular with your IT department. Also, some CD-ROM drives can't do 1X reading at all, so they're always spinning up and down noisily. That kind will probably die even quicker than 1 year. If you want to play CDs, you'll have to go with a real CD player, no help for it.

 

[Nadim]

Quote:

Originally posted by tangent A path you should consider, if you don't mind MP3s, is to put them on your hard disk and then use a USB DAC driving a headphone amp. I find that when listening to music at work I'm not looking for the ultimate in quality. My current work system is now a PJB-100 MP3 player (think "oversized iPod") with a META42 amp. I love this setup because it sounds pretty darn good, and I can put it in my backpack to take it home for adding new music to, recharging batteries, etc.

Believe me, Tangent, I would if I could. The reason I've been having such a hard time is that my work environment imposes upon me three restrictions which conspire together to eliminate most common setup suggestions...

1) I can't use my computer as part of the audio system. I'm not allowed to stick CDs in the drive at all, I can't store personal mp3s on the drive, and (although security doesn't know what one is) they wouldn't allow a USB DAC or outboard sound card either...

2) I'm not allowed to have anything that records. This means I can't bring in the 20GB Archos MMJB that I use when travelling, because it has a mic. I also can't use most of the microsystems out there, because they have record-to-tape functionality.

3) I unfortunately don't have space for full-size components. This cuts out a vast majority of good-quality inexpensive sources like the NAD L40, Philips 963SA, or others that I can't decide between for my home system...

Hmmmm.....I wonder if the L40 can be used vertically. Maybe I can just suspend it from the wall, like so, and then run the cord.....hmmmm.....maybe I should stick with a mini-system.

-Nadim

 

[jpelg]

Just a couple of heads-up's:

Quote:

Amp: Corda HA-1..., has...120 ohm output (supposedly Beyer's like that?)

It is my understanding that the Beyer 831 & 931 models benefit from the 120ohm output, not the other models. You can use the 0 ohm output for other cans though.

There are a few amp/DAC combo devices currently on the market, or on the horizon. The Sostenuto (or PDAC as it was formerly known) is still under development with a release date on the horizon. Audio-Technica has an amp with a DAC built in, but no one seems to have experience with it. Benchmark's DAC1 is already out, but is unproven also. I have one on order. Most expensive is Grace's 901 amp w/DAC built in, which is wonderful but very expensive ($1300-1500).

Just FYI.

 

[tangent]

Quote:

I'm not allowed to have anything that records....Valley Forge, PA

Government lab, by any chance? Sounds like the kind of paranoia (justified, I'll grant) that you get at such institutions...

Given that, I'll repeat my recommendation of the PJB-100, unless "anything that records" means anything with a rewritable medium. The PJB-100 doesn't look like a removable hard disk to the OS like most other hard-disk based MP2 players do. Instead, you have to go through their special software, and that only works well in Win9x. Also, I believe that the standard software won't let you put anything but MP3s onto the box. (There's third-party programs that will let you put arbitrary data on the PJB-100, though.) These restrictions are a PITA in normal use, but it could be used as an argument that you couldn't be smuggling files off of your PC with it.

If recordable media are right out, then you'll be looking at a number of minisystems. There's one by Teac that gets fairly good reviews. It's made in a few different levels, for differing total system costs. It works just like a component system: buy the CD player, amp, tuner, etc, all separately and connect them together. Everything's really small. Other companies have similar systems.

Quote:

The Sostenuto (or PDAC as it was formerly known) is still under development with a release date on the horizon.

The near horizon. The final boards are ready, aos is just sorting out final details before making the formal announcement. I'm sure if you ask, he'll sell you one right now.

 

[Nadim]

Quote:

Originally posted by jpelg It is my understanding that the Beyer 831 & 931 models benefit from the 120ohm output, not the other models. You can use the 0 ohm output for other cans though.

Oh yeah, it's right on Jan's page. Right you are.

Quote:

Originally posted by tangent Government lab, by any chance? Sounds like the kind of paranoia (justified, I'll grant) that you get at such institutions...

Uhhhhh....I can neither confirm nor deny any such blah blah....
Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Quote:

Originally posted by tangent Given that, I'll repeat my recommendation of the PJB-100, unless "anything that records" means anything with a rewritable medium.

Yup, I suppose I could. Unfortunately, like I mentioned, I already have an Archos MMJB, which is very similar, only I can't take it in because it has a built-in mic. And, I can't trade it in, because I need the CF card downloading capability (for digital photography). So, I hate spending another $300-$400 for something so similar to what I already own, when I could play around with cool minisystems or separates instead.

Quote:

Originally posted by tangent If recordable media are right out, then you'll be looking at a number of minisystems. There's one by Teac that gets fairly good reviews. It's made in a few different levels, for differing total system costs. It works just like a component system: buy the CD player, amp, tuner, etc, all separately and connect them together. Everything's really small. Other companies have similar systems.

I saw the TEAC reference series online, but I can't find anywhere to demo it, and haven't found a lot of positive press. As for the "other minisystems", I found that most of them were either at least as expensive as what I was proposing (Linn Classik, Denon D-F101....) or I would have to make sacrifices and probably end up upgrading anyway. The nicer looking (and sounding), yet inexpensive, systems (like the Onkyo DW-S500, for example) lack some of the nice "transport amenities" like CD-Text that the cheap sony has. I'm probably missing some nice systems (I'm hoping I am, and that someone can help me out...), but it's not from a lack of looking.

The Sostenuto / PDAC sounds interesting, but I've been waiting for a while, dunno how much long I'm willing to wait. I did a search but didn't see anything on timeframes or prices. The Benchmark DAC-1 looks pretty large, dunno where I'd fit it. There are some other small products out there, like the X-DAC / X-24K that, if I could find a used one, might be in the same range.

I dunno...without being able to listen to any of this stuff (short of the purchase/return route), it's very difficult for me to figure out where it's best to spend the money. Whether a good mini-system would be better or worse than a cheaper mini with amp, or a really cheap mini with DAC and amp, or what. It's all very confusing.....

Thanks for the suggestions though...

-Nadim

 

[wordsworth]

if you are interested in the Sostenuto pm Aos, it could be an ideal solution. I have on the way (hopefully).

Wordsworth

 

[Nadim]

Quote:

Originally posted by wordsworth if you are interested in the Sostenuto pm Aos, it could be an ideal solution. I have on the way (hopefully).

Aside from some quick but tantalizing listening notes, I haven't seen any reviews of the Sostenuto DAC/Amp, or even much discussion on it. Perhaps my searches aren't picking up the right threads. It certainly does intrigue me, though. Anyone have one yet and care to sing aos's praises?

In other thoughts on this topic, I've seen in some places people mentioning that a cheapie DVD player tends to be better than more-expensive CD players, while others swear by the higher end CD players even with good, low-cost DVD players becoming very prevalent. Anyone care to comment on this? I ask because I saw a cheap, really-small-format TEAC DVD player at Costco the other day that would fit nicely in my undersized cube (not the reference series...it was a strange model, DVC200 or so I wrote down, that I can't find any info on). I didn't have my music / Ety's with me, so I'll have to go back to listen, but I thought I'd solicit opinions on this issue. I'm also unclear on whether "better" in this context means as a transport, or as a DAC.

-Nadim

 

[wordsworth]

Nadim, I have checked with Kelly (who was sent a preview copy of the Sostentu) and he will be doing a review once he gets a final version. I think he will be compairing it against a Modded Art Di/O and a High end Meta42 amp. I will also be getting mine soon, so hopefully I will be able to post comments. All I can say is that from Kelly's brief comments on other posts I think the Sostentu is worth waiting for if you want a DAC and Amp.

On the point about DVD + CD Vs CD player. Every one I have talked has stated that most standalone CD players play CDs considerably better that even high end DVD players. There maybe others that know better but that is what I have been told. If you want other opinions you could post the question as a seperate thread. Hope that helps somewhat.

Wordsworth

 

[Nadim]

Quote:

Originally posted by wordsworth Nadim, I have checked with Kelly (who was sent a preview copy of the Sostentu) and he will be doing a review once he gets a final version. I think he will be compairing it against a Modded Art Di/O and a High end Meta42 amp. I will also be getting mine soon, so hopefully I will be able to post comments. All I can say is that from Kelly's brief comments on other posts I think the Sostentu is worth waiting for if you want a DAC and Amp.

Yeah, I think I may well wait a couple weeks and see what the verdict is. My wallet sure could use the rest.

Quote:

Originally posted by wordsworth On the point about DVD + CD Vs CD player. Every one I have talked has stated that most standalone CD players play CDs considerably better that even high end DVD players. There maybe others that know better but that is what I have been told. If you want other opinions you could post the question as a seperate thread. Hope that helps somewhat.

Interesting... I guess if everyone agreed on this stuff, there'd be no need for forums like this one. Time to read more...

Thanks for the input!

-Nadim

 

[bangraman]

I'm not sure if it's out of your league but have you looked at Cyrus gear? The CD7Q is well received and you won't need the DI/O.

www.cyrus.co.uk

 

[wordsworth]

at about a grand (in £'s) its a fair bit of kit Banagraman. I know it is well out of my price range. I think I will go for a marantz cd6000 ki sig when I get a CD player (I don't currently own one, I use MP3 at the moment (at the best quality of course)). The only question is, is it better to go for a good SACD/DVD audio player which plays CD's but is not to an audiophile level and not buy a standalone cd player?

The reason I say this is because I manly use high quality MP3 over cd but thats not possible with SACD/DVD audio? Ofcourse the counter argument is that I don't own any SACD/DVD audio cds but plenty of standard cds. Ahh choices, choices.

wordsworth

 

[Nadim]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman I'm not sure if it's out of your league but have you looked at Cyrus gear? The CD7Q is well received and you won't need the DI/O. www.cyrus.co.uk

Yeah, I saw those players, but they are more than I was looking to spend. I just upgraded the big HT system (now in 7.1, with a Paradigm Reference Servo-15 rockin' the house...

) so I don't have too much cash left over for the work system. Plus, in the grand scheme of things, pairing a $1500+ source with a < $400 amp doesn't seem to be the wisest outlay of funds.

-Nadim

 

[stymie miasma]

Hi Nadim,

I am also interested in the Denon DF101. Seeing as you close by (I think - I'm new to Philly!), I was wondering if you might be able to recommend any good stores that stock Denon and similar brands and are happy to let people audition.

Cheers!

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally posted by tangent I find that when listening to music at work I'm not looking for the ultimate in quality.

I'd second this notion. I like my work rig (D-25s/TA/Grado 225) a lot, don't get me wrong. But I'd get NO WORK DONE AT ALL if I had my home rig (or a reasonable facsimile) at work.