Woo's New Flagship WA33

[Drewligarchy]

I was curious how the STANDARD edition of the WA33 compares to other brands that sell in its price range. Certainly, there are many options available for $8500.00. It obvious from the posts here the upgrades (JPS and Elite) make a big difference in the sound quality but if you get both that more than doubles the price of the amplifier which seems excessive to me. Is it really worth that extra money? I know this is all relative. I'll be at CamJam next month and I plan on doing some listening of this model.

I think the benefit proposition of the Wa33 is it’s tubes with power. You have DHTs in push pull and can use them with hard to drive planars and other headphones.

I haven’t listened to the DNA or the Auris or Ampsandsound, but most of their models don’t have the power that the Woo has. Some have 2a3s or 300b that allow for the direct heated triode flavor / and I believe one of the auris amps is as powerful as the Woo. I’m sure there are some really good amps in there, but only the auris (and maybe one of the ampsandsound) also has the power. I’d be interested in comparing, but unless I’m blown away (which would be hard because the Wa33 each of standard / elite / JPS are excellent) - I feel like it would be a side grade at best.

That’s really the litmus test. If you have hard to drive planars - it’s basically those two from a commercial production standpoint. If your phones are only Utopia and LCD 5 efficient, you could try a whole slew of the amps above and determine which flavor you like the best. From what I’ve read they are all quality, well reviewed amps. That said, from personal experience, you can’t go wrong with the 33 standard or Elite / they are both great. If you decide on the 33, get whichever one your budget allows and you will, for sure, be happy.

Edit: For the sake of completeness I forgot to mention the Viva Egoista 845 & 2a3 as well as the Trafomatic Primavera - that, with the exception of the VE 2a3, are in the same power range as the Wa33, though I'd have to doublecheck (though still, I think, powerful enough for most anything you'd listen to.) I didn't really consider the Primavera because it's impossible to demo, and the VE 845, while easier to demo and while it reviewed very well, has some well documented issues of blowing drivers. I don't know if the issue has been fixed - but with the other choices available - it was enough for me to pass on this one.

Lastly, let's not forget Woo's own 234. @Torq doesn't really check head fi anymore, but owns and loves this amp - and I trust his ear. He has done lots of incredibly thorough reviews (he did the infamous DAC shootout, and later was Managing Editor at headphones dot com for a while). Interestingly, he is one of two people I've read that prefers the SE to the EE. I exchanged PMs with him on this before I bought the EE, and after having both - while I disagree - I completely understand why. Still, he also mentioned that for the Abyss and Susvara the EE could be better. This is a gross over simplification but the EE is a bit richer than the SE - and it was too much for him. So it really comes down to preference and headphones (and DAC, Dave works better with the EE IMO). Further, I don't believe he got to try the EE with upgraded tubes - which completely change the amp - allow you to dial up or dial down richness or incisiveness and I believe, increase the gap between the EE and the SE (in favor of the EE, mainly because you can get both qualities at the same time - which I think is the EE's greatest trick). Don't get me wrong, however, the SE is still a fantastic amp - and I could happily live with it if I couldn't splurge on the EE. That said, now that I have it I'm glad I do I'd also mention that @isquirrel upgraded from the Wa33 Elite to the Wa234. He might be able to speak to the differences. Just be prepared if you see any pictures of his setup to drool. He's got the top MSB DAC as well as a few other pieces that are just out of this world - and his tube collection probably costs more than all my gear.

Anyhow, the fact that Mike generally recommends the Abyss with the 33 made this an easy choice for me, though I've never demoed the 234 and sure it's spectacular. It certainly has enough power for anything as well.

There are other amps, such as Eddie Current's line, that I'm not including because they aren't in production any longer.

TL;DR - the various incarnations of the Wa33 are both the most powerful tube headphone amplifiers you can get, and are relatively easy to get a demo in. They are both fantastic amps, so I didn't feel the need to hunt down some of the more esoteric DHT headphone amps because they either lacked power or were difficult to demo.

 

[joseph69]

I was curious how the STANDARD edition of the WA33 compares to other brands that sell in its price range. Certainly, there are many options available for $8500.00. It obvious from the posts here the upgrades (JPS and Elite) make a big difference in the sound quality but if you get both that more than doubles the price of the amplifier which seems excessive to me. Is it really worth that extra money? I know this is all relative. I'll be at CamJam next month and I plan on doing some listening of this model.

I owned the WA33 (Standard Edition) w/upgraded tubes for +/-2yrs and made a huge mistake by selling it around September of '19. By November of '19 I missed it so that I wanted another. I could've bought any of the 4 iterations of the WA33, but already knowing how much I missed the sound of the SE, I was lucky enough to find a pre-owned in January of '20 and couldn't be happier with it.

Although I've never heard any of the other iterations, I have no desire to because I enjoy what I'm hearing already and I'd be a bit weary it would be more of a side grade (regardless of price difference) and I possibly wouldn't enjoy any other as much. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the SE WA33 whatsoever, so if it fits your budget, go for it and never mind what you might be missing.

I think the benefit proposition of the Wa33 is it’s tubes with power. You have DHTs in push pull and can use them with hard to drive planars and other headphones.

I haven’t listened to the DNA or the Auris or Ampsandsound, but most of their models don’t have the power that the Woo has. Some have 2a3s or 300b that allow for the direct heated triode flavor / and I believe one of the auris amps is as powerful as the Woo. I’m sure there are some really good amps in there, but only the auris (and maybe one of the ampsandsound) also has the power. I’d be interested in comparing, but unless I’m blown away (which would be hard because the Wa33 each of standard / elite / JPS are excellent) - I feel like it would be a side grade at best.

That’s really the litmus test. If you have hard to drive planars - it’s basically those two from a commercial production standpoint. If your phones are only Utopia and LCD 5 efficient, you could try a whole slew of the amps above and determine which flavor you like the best. From what I’ve read they are all quality, well reviewed amps. That said, from personal experience, you can’t go wrong with the 33 standard or Elite / they are both great. If you decide on the 33, get whichever one your budget allows and you will, for sure, be happy.

Very well said.

 

[joseph69]

PS: Might have been around March '20 that I bought the pre-owned...it was made in January of '20.

 

[Lucky87]

Hey Lucky - I was seriously considering the Bartok to replace my Dave/Mscaler, but never pursued it after I got the EE because the Dave was a really good match. You have me slightly intrigued though. How would you describe the headphone out on the Bartok - and the character of the DAC - especially with the EE? I don't remember if you've had or heard the Dave, so would love to hear how it compares.

Further, I am interested in picking up a Sennheiser HD 800s, 800, or 600 series. Mainly because I've read they synergize really well with tubes. I bought and returned the original 800 many years ago, because I found it slightly fatiguing on solid state, and I had a Stax 009 at the time and I felt they were too close. I have always slightly regretted getting rid of it so quickly and not giving it more of a chance.

My question is - there is a lot of talk in the thread about how good the 800 is with the Wa33. Does this apply to the 800s as well (I never listened to that version)? If you want an original 800, it seems like you have to go used - where the 800s can be gotten easily new at close to the same cost.

While not in the same price category also interested in the 600, 650, and 660 just to mess around with. I know they are much more inexpensive, but I had a 600 in the past and know how good it is for the price. I had never tried the 600 on tubes, so interested in how this series sounds out of the Wa33 - especially the 660 as some say it combines the best of the 600 and 650.

Yeah I found our same combo with tubes for me is not a good match,I find it to hyper detailed and smoothed over and dry sound.

I too had the V281 which was fantastic with my Dave > HD800 & Empyreans. When I tried my other headphones with the Bartok the overall sound was not my taste. I find the headphone section of the Bartok to sound very close to the Benchmark HPA4 very detailed and build is outstanding but out of all my headphones only the HD800S sounded amazing with the HPA4, and for the Bartok my Utopia’s.
I want to revisit the Sennheiser line up from the 600 never tried, to the others I have owned at one time or another 650, 800,& 800s with my WA33 EE

I would like to try MSB line along with Holo May, and the Riviera AIC-10 this year.

Has anyone hear listened to both the WA33 ELITE and the Riviera AIC-10?

 

[Drewligarchy]

Has anyone hear listened to both the WA33 ELITE and the Riviera AIC-10?

@Ciggavelli has. He had the Riveira on loan after he sold his SE and while his EE JPS was being made.

I don’t want to speak for him, but he mentioned that it was very similar to the Wa33 SE - albeit a little more confused during busy passages, and he prefer the EE JPS to both. Cig, sorry if I got any of this wrong.

 

[Ciggavelli]

@Ciggavelli has. He had the Riveira on loan after he sold his SE and while his EE JPS was being made.

I don’t want to speak for him, but he mentioned that it was very similar to the Wa33 SE - albeit a little more confused during busy passages, and he prefer the EE JPS to both. Cig, sorry if I got any of this wrong.

You are 100% right! Yeah, Riviera felt muddy with very fast passages. I was just using the stock tube. Others have noted that the stock tub on the AIC-10 makes for a muddy sound with really fast songs. @mammal said that if you change the stock AIC-10 tube it helps. I don't have any firsthand experience with new tubes on the AIC-10 though.

I prefer the WA33 EE JPS for several reasons. The soundstage is bigger, the layering is better, the dynamics are better, you can use many more tubes, it can be used as a pre-amp, etc.

 

[innocentblood]

has anybody had any experience using the dCS Bartok with the Woo Audio 3ES?

 

[mammal]

You are 100% right! Yeah, Riviera felt muddy with very fast passages. I was just using the stock tube. Others have noted that the stock tub on the AIC-10 makes for a muddy sound with really fast songs. @mammal said that if you change the stock AIC-10 tube it helps. I don't have any firsthand experience with new tubes on the AIC-10 though.

I found AIC-10 respond very well to tubes, my findings are here.

Has anyone hear listened to both the WA33 ELITE and the Riviera AIC-10?

I was considering purchasing WA33 JPS EE, but was difficult to audition so instead tried Viva Egoista 845 and Riviera AIC-10. After realising how hot Viva runs, I decided not to pursue WA33 anymore. Riviera on the other hand runs very cool (only one tube inside after all).

I too had the V281 which was fantastic with my Dave > HD800 & Empyreans. When I tried my other headphones with the Bartok the overall sound was not my taste. I find the headphone section of the Bartok to sound very close to the Benchmark HPA4 very detailed and build is outstanding but out of all my headphones only the HD800S sounded amazing with the HPA4, and for the Bartok my Utopia’s.

I owned V281 with Hugo 2 and did not like the combination (was very dark), and HTT2 loaner sounded much better so I purchased it. I have only tried Dave in a show room and shop settings, never at home, so cannot comment. Neither tried HPA4, but found Bartok very good with Spirit Torino Valkyria for example, Utopia and to a degree also Susvara (did not feel underpowered, but Viva sounded better).

 

[ThanatosVI]

I found AIC-10 respond very well to tubes, my findings are here.


I was considering purchasing WA33 JPS EE, but was difficult to audition so instead tried Viva Egoista 845 and Riviera AIC-10. After realising how hot Viva runs, I decided not to pursue WA33 anymore. Riviera on the other hand runs very cool (only one tube inside after all).


I owned V281 with Hugo 2 and did not like the combination (was very dark), and HTT2 loaner sounded much better so I purchased it. I have only tried Dave in a show room and shop settings, never at home, so cannot comment. Neither tried HPA4, but found Bartok very good with Spirit Torino Valkyria for example, Utopia and to a degree also Susvara (did not feel underpowered, but Viva sounded better).

Nice to see you active again

 

[Drewligarchy]

Yeah I found our same combo with tubes for me is not a good match,I find it to hyper detailed and smoothed over and dry sound.

This is interesting - this is why I like the Dave and EE so much: It's hyper detailed yet smooth. Just goes to show how we all appreciate different things in this hobby

I also disliked the HPA4, though as it's so transparent, maybe it wasn't a good match with my Dave. I found the direct headphone out of the Dave much more liquid. The v281 retains the liquidity but isn't as transparent at the HPA4. That said, the HPA4, while incredibly transparent, I found a little grainy in comparison to Dave direct and the v281 - and certainly the Wa33.

 

[mat.1]

Amy recommendation for interconnect ? I am using shunyata alpha XLR v2 and don’t have synergy with WA 33 .

 

[Darkliner]

Check out https://highfidelitycables.com/
I am using interconnects by them, try one out within your budget. They are fantastic with tube gear.

 

[Drewligarchy]

Easy question: what are your favorite headphones with your version of the Wa33? I have said before that I don’t think there is a better pairing for the Abyss - but interested in what others feel have really good synergy, so that I might try some of those headphones - especially as can jam is coming up.

Especially interested in the Utopia. From demoing it - it seemed to have a sound signature reminiscent of the Abyss, and while I couldn’t get completely into it with my Violectric v281 or Dave direct, I feel like with the Wa33 it might just click. I know the HD 800 is well regarded as well, and I enjoyed it when I had a home demo - but it was too fatiguing out of solid state. I haven’t tried the HD800s though. Anyone using ZMF or Kennerton or the HeaddPhone? How about the Raal Sr1a with th Wa33 as a tube pre to the hsa1b.

While I think the Wa33 generally works great with all headphones, I think there are some really special pairings - and the Abyss is one of them. Looking for your thoughts on others, and perhaps, relevant tubes.

 

[Roasty]

Easy question: what are your favorite headphones with your version of the Wa33? I have said before that I don’t think there is a better pairing for the Abyss - but interested in what others feel have really good synergy, so that I might try some of those headphones - especially as can jam is coming up.

Especially interested in the Utopia. From demoing it - it seemed to have a sound signature reminiscent of the Abyss, and while I couldn’t get completely into it with my Violectric v281 or Dave direct, I feel like with the Wa33 it might just click. I know the HD 800 is well regarded as well, and I enjoyed it when I had a home demo - but it was too fatiguing out of solid state. I haven’t tried the HD800s though. Anyone using ZMF or Kennerton or the HeaddPhone? How about the Raal Sr1a with th Wa33 as a tube pre to the hsa1b.

While I think the Wa33 generally works great with all headphones, I think there are some really special pairings - and the Abyss is one of them. Looking for your thoughts on others, and perhaps, relevant tubes.

I'll sound like a broken record..

- wa33 + utopia is my match made in heaven.
- prefer TC with Milo Reference or musical paradise pre
- prefer Susvara with Primaluna/M7 combo
- SolP sounds good on everything, but need to stick to 2a3 tubes on wa33 as the 300b 2.5v gives too much low end bloom and bloat on this hp

Also, Dave + wa33 + Utopia/SolP/Stellia/HD650 over straight Dave any day.

on a side note, I'd recommend the we417a tubes easily. they're a nice upgrade to the EH gold pin drivers.

 

[Lucky87]

For me this is my best pairing with the Utopia

1. dcS Bartok headphone amp balanced with Norne Audio custom 8 wire (only headphone I liked with Bartok)
2. WA33 EE upgraded KR HP tubes with Dave/MScaler Norne Audio custom 8 wire
3. WA33 EE stock tubes & Tak 274B Dave/MScaler Norne Audio custom 8 wire
4. Felix Euforia stock tubes Dave/MScaler Norne Audio custom 8 wire