[6RS]

I have been browsing around this weekend. Doing so, I came across sites that advocate the use of wood (I think maple is best?), optimally treated with special lacquer (such as C37). Another site proclaims that brass cones improve the sound.
My questions:
Has anyone here made the experience that wooden cases, maybe lacquered, are superior to aluminum or steel cases (amplifers etc)?
How about brass cones? Oneone tried?
Please, I would appreciate people with EXPERIENCE would share their insights: Real improvement or pure wishful thinking/imagination? I know that everyone has an opinion... in which I am actually less interested as I am familiar with most of them already.
Looking forward to your contributions!

 

[Spasticteapot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6RS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have been browsing around this weekend. Doing so, I came across sites that advocate the use of wood (I think maple is best?), optimally treated with special lacquer (such as C37). Another site proclaims that brass cones improve the sound. My questions: Has anyone here made the experience that wooden cases, maybe lacquered, are superior to aluminum or steel cases (amplifers etc)? How about brass cones? Oneone tried? Please, I would appreciate people with EXPERIENCE would share their insights: Real improvement or pure wishful thinking/imagination? I know that everyone has an opinion... in which I am actually less interested as I am familiar with most of them already. Looking forward to your contributions!

I have listened to quite a lot of gear in fancy cases - there's no difference in sound whatsoever. These webpages are usually created to make you buy overpriced laquer. Of course, wood cases are often easier to build, cheaper, and more attractive than their metal counterparts, but I'd recommend using your garden-variety Home Depot stains and varnishes.

The exception to this rule will be the turntable - much like a guitar, the inherent damping abilites of the turntable's construction can affect the sound (though I've never really noticed a difference between one good turntable and another.) Even more important is how the turntable is mounted - however, I would recommend a huge granite slab in combination with some big, squishy rubber feet over the brass spikes. (Mass damping FTW!)

 

[utilisateur]

The thought behind C37 lacquer comes from violonmakers, aparently the character (tone,decay,overtone spectrum) depends not only on the tonewood but also on the lacquers viscosity, afaik when fresh there is no big difference but the normal lacquers dry out more or less quick and the instrument character changes, C37 stuff is said to be different.
If one looks around there seem to be several ideas importing from instrumentbuilding that are not really appropriate to a music reproduction chain.

It will be up to your belief/ears whether you discover such things DO make a difference
X2 on what Spasticteapot said ,TT might be a different matter as vibrations are an important factor here

 

[6RS]

A common denominator seems to transform harmful vibrations, (not only in turntables, but basically anything that is physically connected to the signal) into beneficial ones. It should be possible to measure or visualize these. At least I thought sensitive methods exist to visualize and measure vibrations, eg used in engineering motors and the like? Then, the effect or non-effect of these treatments could also been shown.
But I have not seen any data so far.

 

[Uncle Erik]

There is a benefit to using wood and non-ferrous metals in casing. Steel, iron and other ferrous metals can magnetically couple to the circuit producing unexpected effects. Aluminum, copper and wood are terrific to use because they don't do that. Personally, I like aluminum because it is relatively inexpensive, easy to drill and provides good shielding.

Oh, and that's the other side of wood - it might not magnetically couple, but it doesn't offer much shielding. Further, wood "moves" a lot. Meaning that it changes shape and size depending on heat and humidity. If you cut your wood on a Saturday that's dry and warm, a rainy, cool Sunday will actually change the size of your cuts. Really.

Problem with amps is that they produce a lot of heat, so the wood will move every time you run it, and then will change back when the amp is off and it cools. Eventually, this is what causes cracks and splits. If your design is clever, you can get away with a wood case, but aluminum is still the safest bet.

C37 lacquer? Please. There's a big difference between a violin and a box with tubes in it. That's just pure marketing copy. Just like the spikes. If you must have brass spikes, hit up the local machine shop. They'll crank out a set for probably 10% the price of the "audiophile" version.

 

[Pars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif C37 lacquer? Please. There's a big difference between a violin and a box with tubes in it. That's just pure marketing copy. Just like the spikes. If you must have brass spikes, hit up the local machine shop. They'll crank out a set for probably 10% the price of the "audiophile" version.

Oh yeah. They like to prey upon the imagery that your stereo system is akin to the Stradivarius or whatever that is playing the music, and that the same varnishes, etc. that help produce the tone of the violin will also banish all of the audio gremlins (including RFI/EMI which somehow wasn't around much in 1500-1600) that affect your system in reproducing that music. Puhleeze...

 

[naamanf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pars /img/forum/go_quote.gif Puhleeze...

x2

 

[6RS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a benefit to using wood and non-ferrous metals in casing. Steel, iron and other ferrous metals can magnetically couple to the circuit producing unexpected effects. Aluminum, copper and wood are terrific to use because they don't do that. Personally, I like aluminum because it is relatively inexpensive, easy to drill and provides good shielding. Oh, and that's the other side of wood - it might not magnetically couple, but it doesn't offer much shielding. Further, wood "moves" a lot. Meaning that it changes shape and size depending on heat and humidity. If you cut your wood on a Saturday that's dry and warm, a rainy, cool Sunday will actually change the size of your cuts. Really. Problem with amps is that they produce a lot of heat, so the wood will move every time you run it, and then will change back when the amp is off and it cools. Eventually, this is what causes cracks and splits. If your design is clever, you can get away with a wood case, but aluminum is still the safest bet. C37 lacquer? Please. There's a big difference between a violin and a box with tubes in it. That's just pure marketing copy. Just like the spikes. If you must have brass spikes, hit up the local machine shop. They'll crank out a set for probably 10% the price of the "audiophile" version.

Thanks for the interesting points! Since wood is a thermal insulator the operating temperature of the circuit increases. This may affect the sound, and also the longevity of the electronics. I think it is difficult to compensate for that when "upgrading" an existing metal case to wood, besides all the woodworking issues you mentioned.

Regarding the "magic" stuff - I agree it is overpriced. However, I am still curious to try if I could get hold of it cheap (good tip with the machine shop, and there is high-grade instrument lacquer at a fraction of C37 costs). There are many positive reviews by people that appear credible. Is this all placebo effect, mass psychosis or even a scam?
We might just not have the knowledge or theory to explain the effects that could be real. For example, in the 19th century Lord Kelvin stated that the earth CANNOT be older than about 5 million years, because after some time the sun would have burned all the fuel and vanished. He arrogantly dismissed (it is physiscs!) the fossil evidence presented by Charles Darwin that suggested earth is older than one billion years. Well, Kelvin did not know about nuclear fusion...
On the other hand, there are examples for widespread mis-beliefs, some of them harmful. In the 19th century, radioactive Radon was widely advertised to cure all sorts of diseases. And I just read the sad story in the NYT that in Africa, albinos are hunted and killed, and their organs are traded because it is believed they have magical power.
Sorry for the excursion...

 

[naamanf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6RS /img/forum/go_quote.gif And I just read the sad story in the NYT that in Africa, albinos are hunted and killed, and their organs are traded because it is believed they have magical power. Sorry for the excursion...

Read Fark.com do you?

 

[6RS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by naamanf /img/forum/go_quote.gif Read Fark.com do you?

No, actually I checked it now for the first time after you pointed it out. Interesting stuff.