[mwb]

Ouch! ( I ought to learn to use those little smiling faces)

First Off MReal I am an adult not a child and I am more than willing to take full and complete responsibility for ALL my actions. I simply came here for a little help to put together a first class Headphone system.

I have been a stereo hobbyist for years and have been unable, recently, to do much listening because of the birth of my first child (I am a late bloomer in this regard).

In a short time I have gained a quick look at what's available and it has been quite helpful. I am listening to Sennheiser HD600s now because it was cheap, easy and I needed some first hand (or ear) experience with these things in order to better appreciate the honest experience so graciously offered here.

As to any responsiblity I might feel you personally should shoulder for my decision to purhcase a set of Headphones; well, you need not worry. I know enough to take opinions for what they are. In fact, in your case I exercised increased caution because, in a somewhat vitriolic comment you once made to Markl (Clash of the Titans thread) you said:

QUOTE :"I was forgiving of the R10 in my comparison because Vertigo-1 had mentioned he was going to sell his (during the same time you were asking him to tell you about their sound (!)), and then you bought yours markl.. and I didnt want to detract from the possible resale value." ENDQUOTE

So, due to the candor of the above quoted remark, I knew that your opinions could be based on motivations having to do with driving market prices as well as considerations of sound and build quality. I want you to rest at ease because your decision to offer an opinion to Markl which was based on the fact that you did not want to "detract from the possible resale value" was in one of the first threads I read when I came to this board.

So you see Mreal, I already knew, long before ordering my set of ATH W2002s, that your opinions were capable of holding subtext which might mitigate them for my purposes ( which were, as stated, to try to put together a first class headphone system ).

I would, however, like to thank you for helping to bring them to my attention - and I say this regardless of if I like them or not. I am prepard to listen and judge, as everyone must, for myself.

Most Cordially,
Michael

 

[markl]

I think mwb was just joking, going along with the silly posts that you started MRael. mwb is a big boy, and I think he knows what he is doing. I think anyone who would invest $800 in anything has considered the situation well.

The thing is, the W2002 is an endangered headphone species with only 1000 in existence. Plus, Vincent led us to believe that he had just 5 left, but with all the people who seem to be buying from him, I wonder how many are really left? No, I don't want to start any rumors, and in the end, I guess it doesn't matter to me if he has 400 of them under his desk-- I got mine and I'm glad.

"If you are so gullible that you'd let some off hand comments by markl put a black cloud over your decision, then I dont know what to tell you."

I think I've been extremely positive so far. I really LIKE these headphones. However, I felt it was important to post my early incomplete findings ASAP because so many people were e-mailing me privately asking what to do. So far, I have told them all to "go for it" because if they don't they will forever lose their chance.

It's also possible that not all these people will like the W2002 better than their favorite current headphone. I expect that will happen to at least one or two purchasers, but I think that's to be expected.

"You have to think for yourself! Markl spent $1700 on the R10's without ever hearing them... you dont think that involved some agony?"

MRael knows first hand that I agonized over that, but it worked out OK. Again, I owned the CD3000 and loved them, so I had every reason to believe the R10 would be better and they are.

"How much do you think markl will sell his R10 for? (if he sells it.) How much would he get if he praised the W2002 up and down the block as being better for rock music?"

MRael is right to point out any "hidden" motivation I may have, but I would expect that this is obvious to everyone, and in the backs of all their minds. If I wasn't me, I'd be paying attention to that fact as well, so I don't blame you.

"If you dont think markl is keenly aware of his R10 investment you're ignorant".

Like I said, I'm sure everyone has this in the back of their minds. Am I expending all this energy to falsely prop up the value of the R10s so I can sell them to some "sucker" for a lot of cash and keep the superior W2002? Well, that's for you to decide.

All I can tell you is that music and headphones are my hobby-- I'm as big a headphone geek as you'll find on these boards. I call 'em like I hear 'em.

I believe in break-in (both physical and psychological). I'll say it again-- this battle is not over. I've already decided that if I do have to sell my R10's I will keep the W2002 and NOT go back to the CD3000.

Is that sufficient enough of an endorsement?

This is getting too personal, and it's not so fun!

markl

 

[kelly]

Thanks Rick, it was Hillary Hahn. I don't know how she plays but they sure liked her in the latest Stereophile and she equals Vanessa-Mae in cuteness.

I'm sure if markl decides to part with his Sonys, he'll have interested buyers without having to misrepresent his opinions. I really do appreciate that you guys are sharing your opinions but questioning everyone else's integrity every time they edge toward disagreement is a bit much.

I love you guys but sometimes this forum is like an ad for an anti-anxiety medication.

Inevitably someone will get a pair of W2002s and not care for them even if the other 90% of you guys love them. Since they're no longer in production and already difficult to acquire I'm sure those will be easy to move too.

Kelly

 

[M Rael]

I'm glad you quoted that earlier post of mine, mwb. It goes right to the heart of how people decide to use language when they are describing a headphone experience. There was a lot going on during the time those R10's were bought that you have no idea about! Suffice it to say that instead of jumping up and down on the R10's for sounding too polite on rock music, I mentioned it in passing and left it at that. I saw no reason to make more of a point about their sound in that regard than I already had. BUT, it wouldnt surprise me if someone else might hit that point harder.

I chose my way, and I'm comfortable with it.

 

[M Rael]

Markl: theres a lot of tension, no? Thats why I tried to lighten things up with my fake news story.

I know what you mean about the pm's and emails about the W2002! I got a bunch of them, including from Kelly, and I think the pressure of having 20 guys asking me if they should spend the $700.00 finally caught up to me. I hope you know I didnt mention the value of the R10's as a shadow over your impressions. When mwb was like, 'oh no! what have I done!' I just snapped. Sorry.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

BUT, it wouldnt surprise me if someone else might hit that point harder.

If you read my R10 review back at Headwize, I'd say I was pretty critical on the R10s. I specifically defined which genres would or wouldn't fit the R10s, which in turn led to a whole string of replies saying whether or not somebody would even consider them based on what genres I said the R10s worked best or worst with. You could look at it two ways...that they can't do a specific genre well, or that they're the ace of all trades...they can carry that natural sound through each genre and leave you wandering in the land of music, regardless of whether or not tonally they can handle a genre well, such as rock. Then again, I don't know how you listen to your rock, I know for some people rock = 90+ db loud + bass, in which case, no the R10s wouldn't do the job.

Wow, I learned a lot more in this thread than just about wooden headphones...that pic RickG posted was the cover of an SACD I had been eyeing. If Hillary Hahn is anything like Vanessa-Mae, I'm hitting Tower Records ASAP.

BTW, if you like Vanessa Mae, try Bond - Born, which is my avatar. Just imagine Vanessa-Mae x 4.

mwb, I can actually sympathize with you...I believe you're a person that is looking for, and can afford, some of the better headphones out there that're $1000+. And given you are still relatively new here, it's good to note that yes, headphones do pop up and get their glory days, and then pass on by (and I am not talking about the W2002s strictly, this goes for the entire history of Headwize and Headfi). You just happened to arrive at a time when the W2002 is the new kid on the block...and not only that, but it's also an entirely newly released headphone, which doubles its fame. New high end headphones do not get released often at all. And to boot, it's apparently a limited edition one. With all that, you can see why there's been a sudden movement on the W2002s. You're right, this is a very difficult hobby. If you look at my profile, you'll see the mess of headphones I've been through myself. It's sickening, and at the end of it all, you just want to go back to $20 headphones to end the misery of it all.

I've held back from posting in W2002 threads because quite simply, I'm not interested in them, but I've got to hand it to M Rael, willing to be the first in line to import in a headphone that costs so much when there isn't even a whiff of a review out there. That takes serious guts. Even when I purchased my R10s, and I believe I was second in line on Headwize, I had the chance to read over reviews done by mrbeanyohan, and to also talk with him online about it. I do not believe I would have purchased the R10s otherwise, unheard of and unreviewed. I don't believe I would purchase anything, for that matter, that has been completely unheard of and unreviewed. Unheard I can live with, but unreviewed as well, no way. I'm not that brave.

 

[RickG]

Vert, I have the Hilary Hahn SACD and it's one of my favorites. However, keep in mind that Hahn is straight classical, not anything like the pop/jazz/crossover stuff that Vanessa does (which I also like). Hahn is well regarded in classical music circles while Mae is viewed more as a pop phenom. BTW, I'll have to order the "Bond" disc immediately!

 

[kelly]

Rick, that Hillary Hahn CD doesn't happen to have a redbook layer does it? I'm at least an amp and possibly another set of headphones away from thinking about SACD and even then I'd only have the SACD at home. BTW, the Vanessa-Mae CD I'm listening to now is "The Classical Collection Pt I" which actually is traditional for the first two discs then miscellaneous stuff on the third disc. I definitely consider her capable of both.

Vert, I will certainly check out Bond - Born. Were they named that because they all look like Bond girls or what?

If I ever run out of interest in the hardware of this hobby, it'll still be great to have you guys as music resources. I was checking out The Gathering last night on Amazon based on a prog rock thead in the music forum. My wish list is beginning to queue up.

M Rael, sorry I made you feel so pressured. There are worse things in life than having people value your opinion. I promise not to sue if I make a purchase and disagree with your take on something though I hope you won't be surprised if I air the disagreement. In the last month you might have noticed that I bought and sold Sony D-25S player and an MG Head OTL and didn't consult any legal council over it. That said, I have the forum to thank for turning me on to my Corda HA-1, the ART DI/O (the BEST value in audio), the Beyer DT831s and Jan Meier's business in general--all of which I'm quite pleased with. When you don't have opportunity to audition as much as you'd like in real life, you become a bit more reliant on the opinions of others--but I still only value them as opinions.

Kelly

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

Vert, I will certainly check out Bond - Born. Were they named that because they all look like Bond girls or what?

If you do end up liking them, consider picking up their DVD that shows their first concert they did in London. You WON'T regret it. It's both a feast for the ears and eyes.

 

[RickG]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly BTW, the Vanessa-Mae CD I'm listening to now is "The Classical Collection Pt I" which actually is traditional for the first two discs then miscellaneous stuff on the third disc. I definitely consider her capable of both.

Oh, I agree Kelly....It's just that the "classical community" doesn't really take her seriously. Also, none of the Sony SACD's are hybrids: they want you to have to purchase a SACD player! (wonder why?)

 

[markl]

I emphatically deny that the R10s are "no good" for rock. Given that I listen 90% to rock, obviously I think they're GREAT for rock. This is an example of how two people can hear things differently. We're all chasing our own personal "ideal sound".

Yes, this has become very stressful for me.

I had the option of keeping my mouth shut and just quietly posting my R10's or my W2002's in the "For Sale" section with no explanation.

How many of you would have bought either of them from me with no explanation? In a way, there was no option for me but to 100% open the kimono so to speak, and make it clear why I'm auditioning the W2002s at all:

1. I need money for a move. The R10s would indeed net me more money than the W2002's
2. I gambled that I'd like the W2002's "enough" so that I could bear to part with the R10's
3. It appeared at the time that there were surely less than five left from the only known reliable source: Audio Technica Singapore. It was now or never.

That's my situation and psychology going into this review. I can't possibly be any more honest with you. I hope someone appreciates this, or I'l just stop and beat it.

markl

 

[M Rael]

markl: suggestion? Just post a review or a comparison in its full form. You know how these threads can get.. one minute its about headphones, then about review fraud, back to headphones, then on to asian violinists with nice bod's! I hate to admit I was a hemerroid on the posterior of your original post, but just lay it out there in one fell swoop and it will be much better.

 

[mwb]

I agree with MReal - Please post what you think, for one thing it is what this forum (or at least this thread) is supposed to be about. I doubt very seriously, given the rarity of either of your headphones that you stand to be left without potential buyers for either phone you decide to part with.

Obviously a robust conversation concerning personal experiences with a superb product can only serve to better your chances that someone will be happy to purchase it. Look at me, I came here from a Headroom ad where it looked like the only choices I had were Stax Omega or Orpheus - I even had an Orpheus lined up to purchase at a very low price (well, not low but lower than advertised).

It was largely after reading posts and then talking a bit with MReal and Markl and Vertigo and Uvak that I began to feel comfortable about choosing anything. You see NOBODY had an Orpheus and no matter how revered this product might be here ( and I posted several times about this ) I cold not figure out why a product THAT GOOD had nobody buying it.

Heck, I know dozens of people who own speakers alone costing many times the Orpheus - nobody is ever really happy, they all trade eventually just like in here, but there were buyers.

It was the experiences of a few in here that gave some shape to my INITIAL plunge into the HEadphone world. So far the Cary 300SEi isn't perfect by any means and surely not comparable to my speaker based amplifiers BUT I THINK I CAN ENJOY IT and given the fact that I NEED TO ENTER THE HEADPHONE ZONE ro listen to music anymore enjoying it is just FINE!

SO hats off to MReal (believe me when I tell you I have never meant to cause you a moment's pressure), to Markl, to Vert and Uvak and the rest of you whose opinions and experiences I have devoured and taken to heart only out of my own desire to enjoy the music.

It certainly looks like it can be done from my admittedly limited perch.

Incidentally, I just ordered a power cord for the Cary that was actually more than a new pair of ATH W2002s if you want to hear something really crazy. I've never heard it although I do have some experience with high end power cords. The Shunyata Viper V2....supposed to really inject some adrenalin into a tube amp.

I'll let ya know......only if I can do so in relative safety >I'd put a smiling face here but I'm not sure I'm allowed to use them according to the Forum Rules which I have to admit not having read<

 

[M Rael]

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[KR...]

This is all a bit distrubing, if you asked me.

When I review something I am always 100% honest. To me any review that isn't 100% honest is totally worthless and not worth reading.