Some not all. Depends on your relationship with a dealer, though rare but yes some offer that for a 5-15% restocking fee
Woo Audio WA23.....
- Thread starter Vindication
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I think the best answer I can give is, “It depends on what you’re going after.” Many people don’t have just one of one thing, whether or that’s headphones, amplifiers, DACs, cables, and so forth.
For me, I’ve built mostly around the Susvara, but that’s because it is my preference & reference tuning. I end up coming back to it. Others have headphones that fit that bill more and admittedly, there are other headphones that, to me, do specific things better, but it‘s just my jack-of-all trades can.
I think your list is pretty good, but again it will come down to being able to try them. Part of what I was getting at before with the whole journey/experience posts was you start to understand your own preferences, what to look for, and can assess pretty quickly what fits into your preferences or not. Auditioning, buying/selling, going to a dealer, going to headphone meetups, or going to CanJam. I will say CanJam is fantastic, albeit not necessarily the best place mostly because it’s noisy, so critical listening is mostly impossible. However, if you go in knowing your own preferences, you can still get an idea of what you don’t need to spend more time with and what you really want to spend more time with. It’s not perfect, mind you, but it helps a tiny bit with the process of elimination. For example, I heard the Susvara on the DCS Lina stack and knew I didn’t want to go that route for myself. The same for the Amethyst Kallyste hybrid amp, despite still sounding very, very good. I wasn’t entirely impressed with the WA33, but the WA23 I was.
For buying and selling, if you are buying new, you are going to lose out on a lot of money, selling it off used. New, the Susvara is $6K+tax, but used, you can find it somewhere between $3-4K. If you’re not sure about something, try to find it used. You almost possibly can break even with items this way or, at the very least, lose out on much less.
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unfitstew
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Utterly fantastic amp at a steal of a price, for sure! Enjoy the heck out of it! I cannot stop listening to mine.
jlbrach
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sounds like you got a great deal..every now and then it happens...you could probably resell it at a handsome profit...you dont want to make the seller feel too bad lol
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Congrats! I'm curious how you find it vs. your solid state amps. You have quite a stable! I have no interest in listening to the ORR since getting the Luna. I try but go back after 15 minutes. I've wondered if I would like the Zahl or Mass Kobo better for solid state, or maybe I'm just a tube guy now.
unfitstew
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When I can I will let you know but I don't have the HM1 right now. I traded it for the Diana MR + Cash. But I have another one ordered for this years batch. My Oors power plug broke so waiting on a replacement one. Debating grabbing the Hypsos though but I doubt I will use it much after WA23 and 465. My 465 is suppsoed to be finished beimg built this month. But Goldensound will be reviewing my 465 before I get it. So it will be a bit.
I didn't get much time today to use the WA23 due to work and other obligations but will try to use it more tomorrow.
Like Chris, my Oor gets pretty much no attention anymore since the WA23 landed. I have gone back and forth, I’ve also used the WA23 as a pre to the Oor, but that seemed moot. I really can’t wait to hear your and Cameron’s impressions on the Mass Kobo 465.
I‘m following suit with the Zahl HM1 as my solid state choice and I am really eager to receive it this year!
unfitstew
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Honestly even from the time I listened to (30ish minutes) the WA23 has a very nice clean and warm sound. I think it will be a very good pairing with the fast, dynamic, and technical yet musical sound of the HM1. That way you can choose HM1 for HP that benefit from its sound and you can use WA23 for those that prefer its sound. Also being able to preamp into HM1 is a nice ability to add some tube flavour to it. Going to for sure try that out.
I'll be very excited to hear more about the 465 from you and Goldensound. Happy to sell you a like-new Hypsos.
avin13
New Head-Fier
Thanks for allowing golden sound to review the unit. Looking forward to it.
Hi, everyone! After reading your impressions in the thread, I couldn't resist and decided to join the ranks of WA23 enthusiasts. It's supposed to arrive in town on Friday! I don't have any previous experience with 2A3 tubes, and it doesn't seem like there's any discussion about 2A3 NOS tubes in this WA23 thread. Have any of you tried using 2A3 NOS tubes in your WA23? I'm pleased to see that there are still some Sylvanias, RCAs, and Ken Rads available at reasonable prices. Interestingly, Raytheons appear to be quite expensive.
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pippen99
Headphoneus Supremus
I used RCA 2A3s in my WA33 for awhile to great effect. Try for the Black Plates from the early to mid 50s.
I had the opportunity recently to test out a pair of Takatuski 2A3 tubes with the 274b rectifier tube, all courtesy of @HONEYBOY (thanks again man!).
Here are my findings.
In short, the Takatsuki 274b definitely adds some heft in the bass to the sound versus the stock rectifier tube. But, it does something where it overshadows the midrange when the Takatuski 2A3s are in with it. The Takatsuki 2A3s add more spaciousness, more awesomely precise and lifelike imaging (more detailed is another way of putting this) and an even bigger soundstage versus my Psvane 2A3 tubes. This is regardless of what rectifier tube was in.
The longer version:
I put the Takatsuki 2A3s and 274b in after listening to my WA-23 with the Psvane (upgraded tubes I bought it with at CanJam SoCal 2022) and all other stock tubes for the last year or so. It was immediately obvious to me that something had been enhanced in the bass and that the soundstage had opened up. I wanted to listen for a couple of weeks for the sound to integrate so that’s what I did. I enjoyed listening during this time and got used to what I was hearing so I could start to pinpoint more nuanced sounds. Everything sounded bigger - the bass, the soundstage, the imaging. Even better and more high-fi than the Psvane/stock tube configuration.
I then switched back to the Psvane 2A3s and stock tubes to start a more active, less passive-listening comparison. It was obvious listening back on the Psvanes that they were more present in the midrange than the Takatsukis. But, less resolving, less big soundstage and not quite as powerful of a bass punch. Although they were great in all those areas, just not as good as the Takatsukis. I missed the big-ness of the Takatsuki’s, but I wanted the midrange of the Psvanes. I found it, but in an interesting way that I’ll get to.
I then put the Takastuki 2A3s and 274b in. My impressions were the same as when I had first put them in: bigger soundstage, more precise, lifelike and impressive imaging and a more robust, big bass punch. But, something was missing. Voices sounded more distant. After listening to all of the same tracks on these tubes that I had on the Psvane/stock configuration, I was left pretty emotionally unmoved. The bigness of the sound was impressive at first, but it just didn’t engage me in that emotional way. I thought maybe they’d need more time to warm-up (I was giving each tube configuration at least 20 minutes to warm up, per Woo’s recommendation), so I left them a bit and then came back. Same conclusion, although the bass sounded a tad more focused. But it could’ve been me imagining it.
I texted @HONEYBOY a bit though this whole thing, which was fun, and he recommended switching out the rectifiers. I told him I was already on it!
And, what I did next was my favorite out of all configurations: Takatsuki 2A3s with all other being stock tubes, so no Takatsuki 274B. This was the magic for me. The midrange returned but all the other positive attributes of the Takatsuki 2A3s stayed (that soundstage, and lifelike imaging). I was the most engaged and kept wanting to listen long after I had told my wife I was going to stop. I decided to buy the Takatsuki 2A3s and not get the rectifier. The bass is still big and punchy on the stock rectifier and sounds more balanced to me versus the Tak 274b.
The next day, I tried the Psvane 2A3s with the Takatsuki 274b. This was great too. The nice midrange stayed and the bass was improved. But, I still preferred the Tak 2A3/stock tube configuration the most. I did that one again and did one more A/B test between Psvane 2A3 and Tak 2A3 and still preferred the Tak 2A3/stock tube combo over everything. Psvanes are great though and, if you liked a really focused, beautiful midrange, they do that the best out of these options. Takatsuki midrange sounds beautiful too, but it sounds slightly less focused and intimate sounding on vocals comparatively to the Psvanes. Perhaps because there’s more happening in the Tak 2A3’s sound and that bigger soundstage, more high-fi imaging, takes a little bit away from the vocals.
I did these tests on 4 different headphones: ZMF Caldera, Atrium Closed, Atrium and HiFiMan Susvara and used my iFi Pro iDSD Signature throughout. Caldera and Atrium Closed are what I listen to most on these days, and the Susvara was there because it gives the best microscope.
Side note on comparing with the Feliks Envy: I own both amps and I prefer the WA-23. The Takatsuki 2A3/Takatuski 274b/stock tube configuration kind of sounds more like the Envy: huge bass, huge soundstage, but more hollow and distant, overshadowed mids (this is with stock performance edition tubes). Ultimately, less engaging to me personally. I get bored with that sound quickly. The Envy also sounds more left to right in the soundstage, like reallllly wide, and the WA-23 has much more depth. This is another reason I prefer the WA-23: it sounds more like you’re in the space and hearing all these great layers in front of you, where the Envy sounds more unnaturally wide and less cohesive comparatively.
Hope this was helpful to anyone considering getting Takatsuki or Psvanes! One thing to note - I talked to @HONEYBOY about these findings and he said that his findings matched mine, but, he left his WA-23 on for 24 hours with the Takatsuki 2A3/Takatsuki 274b/stock tube configuration and it sounded unbelievably good when he listened at that point. So maybe that 274b just needs a ton of warm up time. But, hopefully it wouldn’t always be 24 hours!
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I had the opportunity recently to test out a pair of Takatuski 2A3 tubes with the 274b rectifier tube, all courtesy of @HONEYBOY (thanks again man!).
Here are my findings.
In short, the Takatsuki 274b definitely adds some heft in the bass to the sound versus the stock rectifier tube. But, it does something where it overshadows the midrange when the Takatuski 2A3s are in with it. The Takatsuki 2A3s add more spaciousness, more awesomely precise and lifelike imaging (more detailed is another way of putting this) and an even bigger soundstage versus my Psvane 2A3 tubes. This is regardless of what rectifier tube was in.
The longer version:
I put the Takatsuki 2A3s and 274b in after listening to my WA-23 with the Psvane (upgraded tubes I bought it with at CanJam SoCal 2022) and all other stock tubes for the last year or so. It was immediately obvious to me that something had been enhanced in the bass and that the soundstage had opened up. I wanted to listen for a couple of weeks for the sound to integrate so that’s what I did. I enjoyed listening during this time and got used to what I was hearing so I could start to pinpoint more nuanced sounds. Everything sounded bigger - the bass, the soundstage, the imaging. Even better and more high-fi than the Psvane/stock tube configuration.
I then switched back to the Psvane 2A3s and stock tubes to start a more active, less passive-listening comparison. It was obvious listening back on the Psvanes that they were more present in the midrange than the Takatsukis. But, less resolving, less big soundstage and not quite as powerful of a bass punch. Although they were great in all those areas, just not as good as the Takatsukis. I missed the big-ness of the Takatsuki’s, but I wanted the midrange of the Psvanes. I found it, but in an interesting way that I’ll get to.
I then put the Takastuki 2A3s and 274b in. My impressions were the same as when I had first put them in: bigger soundstage, more precise, lifelike and impressive imaging and a more robust, big bass punch. But, something was missing. Voices sounded more distant. After listening to all of the same tracks on these tubes that I had on the Psvane/stock configuration, I was left pretty emotionally unmoved. The bigness of the sound was impressive at first, but it just didn’t engage me in that emotional way. I thought maybe they’d need more time to warm-up (I was giving each tube configuration at least 20 minutes to warm up, per Woo’s recommendation), so I left them a bit and then came back. Same conclusion, although the bass sounded a tad more focused. But it could’ve been me imagining it.
I texted @HONEYBOY a bit though this whole thing, which was fun, and he recommended switching out the rectifiers. I told him I was already on it!
And, what I did next was my favorite out of all configurations: Takatsuki 2A3s with all other being stock tubes, so no Takatsuki 274B. This was the magic for me. The midrange returned but all the other positive attributes of the Takatsuki 2A3s stayed (that soundstage, and lifelike imaging). I was the most engaged and kept wanting to listen long after I had told my wife I was going to stop. I decided to buy the Takatsuki 2A3s and not get the rectifier. The bass is still big and punchy on the stock rectifier and sounds more balanced to me versus the Tak 274b.
The next day, I tried the Psvane 2A3s with the Takatsuki 274b. This was great too. The nice midrange stayed and the bass was improved. But, I still preferred the Tak 2A3/stock tube configuration the most. I did that one again and did one more A/B test between Psvane 2A3 and Tak 2A3 and still preferred the Tak 2A3/stock tube combo over everything. Psvanes are great though and, if you liked a really focused, beautiful midrange, they do that the best out of these options. Takatsuki midrange sounds beautiful too, but it sounds slightly less focused and intimate sounding on vocals comparatively to the Psvanes. Perhaps because there’s more happening in the Tak 2A3’s sound and that bigger soundstage, more high-fi imaging, takes a little bit away from the vocals.
I did these tests on 4 different headphones: ZMF Caldera, Atrium Closed, Atrium and HiFiMan Susvara and used my iFi Pro iDSD Signature throughout. Caldera and Atrium Closed are what I listen to most on these days, and the Susvara was there because it gives the best microscope.
Side note on comparing with the Feliks Envy: I own both amps and I prefer the WA-23. The Takatsuki 2A3/Takatuski 274b/stock tube configuration kind of sounds more like the Envy: huge bass, huge soundstage, but more hollow and distant, overshadowed mids (this is with stock performance edition tubes). Ultimately, less engaging to me personally. I get bored with that sound quickly. The Envy also sounds more left to right in the soundstage, like reallllly wide, and the WA-23 has much more depth. This is another reason I prefer the WA-23: it sounds more like you’re in the space and hearing all these great layers in front of you, where the Envy sounds more unnaturally wide and less cohesive comparatively.
Hope this was helpful to anyone considering getting Takatsuki or Psvanes! One thing to note - I talked to @HONEYBOY about these findings and he said that his findings matched mine, but, he left his WA-23 on for 24 hours with the Takatsuki 2A3/Takatsuki 274b/stock tube configuration and it sounded unbelievably good when he listened at that point. So maybe that 274b just needs a ton of warm up time. But, hopefully it wouldn’t always be 24 hours!
I know I already chatted with you briefly about this, but just reading your post again and really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, Matt. Everything you described with the Takatsuki 2A3s is what I am looking for. I‘ve been enjoying the WA23 in stock form and have been utterly impressed so far, but eventually I will be upgrading tubes. The Psvane were on my short list simply because they were an easier pill to swallow than the Taks. I think I may just need to go full-bore with the Taks and be done with it.
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