[Daniel Johnston]

Hello, I am extremely curious about the Woo Tube Mini. I'd be using it with iems such as the Thieaudio Prestige LTD and some headphones, nothing crazy to drive. My source would be a Samsung S21 Ultra, soon to be upgraded to the S24 Ultra. I understand some have interference and noise with cellphones? But from past experience with other dongles and dacs, I find simply putting your phone on airplane mode completely eliminates this. So my question is. How does it compare to something like the Chord Mojo 2? I don't care about power but mainly overall sound. I am looking at the Mojo 2 as a possible upgrade to, but the Tube Mini has piqued my interest. How is staging, imaging, detail, all them things on the tube mini when compared to something like the Mojo 2? I've heard the Mojo 2 and it's great. But if the Tube Mini has that special more engaging sound. I may go for it. The Mojo 2 is $799 AUD where as the Woo Tube Mini is $929 AUD.

Edit.
Read a few posts back. So Mojo 2 slightly better technical performance as in detail, speed, clarity?

Tube Mini. More musical and spacious with larger staging.

I don't need eq, already have parametric eq on UAPP. If you had to choose one, which would it be? This would mainly be for at home, sitting in the backyard. And maybe some portable use, but not much. Don't need any blutooth and stuff like that. Just pure sound quality

I have both.

The Tube Mini is as you described. But, it is a bit to powerful for IEMs. The ringing from the tubes and the noise just switching from SE to balanced and vice versa is impressively loud with even "harder to drive" IEMs.

The Tube mini was designed for harder to drive full size headphones. The Mojo2 is much more flexible IEM/Headphone wise. The Mojo2 is also better dongle wise because of the battery.

If you want a tube based dongle that is excellent, the tube mini is awesome. If you want a dongle that is much more flexible and also sonically excellent, the Mojo2 is better. The sonic differences between the two are not huge. IMHO

 

[Promee]

Hello, I am extremely curious about the Woo Tube Mini. I'd be using it with iems such as the Thieaudio Prestige LTD and some headphones, nothing crazy to drive. My source would be a Samsung S21 Ultra, soon to be upgraded to the S24 Ultra. I understand some have interference and noise with cellphones? But from past experience with other dongles and dacs, I find simply putting your phone on airplane mode completely eliminates this. So my question is. How does it compare to something like the Chord Mojo 2? I don't care about power but mainly overall sound. I am looking at the Mojo 2 as a possible upgrade to, but the Tube Mini has piqued my interest. How is staging, imaging, detail, all them things on the tube mini when compared to something like the Mojo 2? I've heard the Mojo 2 and it's great. But if the Tube Mini has that special more engaging sound. I may go for it. The Mojo 2 is $799 AUD where as the Woo Tube Mini is $929 AUD.

Edit.
Read a few posts back. So Mojo 2 slightly better technical performance as in detail, speed, clarity?

Tube Mini. More musical and spacious with larger staging.

I don't need eq, already have parametric eq on UAPP. If you had to choose one, which would it be? This would mainly be for at home, sitting in the backyard. And maybe some portable use, but not much. Don't need any blutooth and stuff like that. Just pure sound quality

I think it is a really solid product, but you will have some static / background noise if you are using it with an IEM. I have tried it with the ie600, and you’re right that putting a device in airplane mode totally takes away the sounds produced from the device radio, but you will not have a black background on IEMs - this is just from the nature of the tubes. To a lesser degree, some slight hiss is noticeable on very sensitive headphones, but it is very noticeable on IEMs. If that is your primary use case, then it’s a major consideration. High impedance headphones seem to cover up this issue. It is tolerable with IEMs, and you don’t really hear it while music is playing, but you know that it is reducing detail. If you are absolutely in love with tube sound, you might go for it anyway, but I think you might look elsewhere if IEMs are your #1 transducer for this device.

I don’t know the mojo personally, but it has a legendary reputation. You might also look at the Luxury and Precision W4 if you want something in a more pocketable form factor - it has really tremendous sound quality for such a little thing and works well with IEMs. I had a whole bunch of other dongles, all of which were sold for the W4, until the Tube Mini came along - but it is really for a different use case.

 

[HardstyleLoco96]

I think it is a really solid product, but you will have some static / background noise if you are using it with an IEM. I have tried it with the ie600, and you’re right that putting a device in airplane mode totally takes away the sounds produced from the device radio, but you will not have a black background on IEMs - this is just from the nature of the tubes. To a lesser degree, some slight hiss is noticeable on very sensitive headphones, but it is very noticeable on IEMs. If that is your primary use case, then it’s a major consideration. High impedance headphones seem to cover up this issue. It is tolerable with IEMs, and you don’t really hear it while music is playing, but you know that it is reducing detail. If you are absolutely in love with tube sound, you might go for it anyway, but I think you might look elsewhere if IEMs are your #1 transducer for this device.

I don’t know the mojo personally, but it has a legendary reputation. You might also look at the Luxury and Precision W4 if you want something in a more pocketable form factor - it has really tremendous sound quality for such a little thing and works well with IEMs. I had a whole bunch of other dongles, all of which were sold for the W4, until the Tube Mini came along - but it is really for a different use case.

I have both.

The Tube Mini is as you described. But, it is a bit to powerful for IEMs. The ringing from the tubes and the noise just switching from SE to balanced and vice versa is impressively loud with even "harder to drive" IEMs.

The Tube mini was designed for harder to drive full size headphones. The Mojo2 is much more flexible IEM/Headphone wise. The Mojo2 is also better dongle wise because of the battery.

If you want a tube based dongle that is excellent, the tube mini is awesome. If you want a dongle that is much more flexible and also sonically excellent, the Mojo2 is better. The sonic differences between the two are not huge. IMHO

I understand what you mean by the Tube Mini being too powerful for iems. But that is no issue at all for me. I used a E1DA 9038s for my iems on performance mode.... I'd just simply set my output level on -16db on UAPP and no issue hahaha. My main portable dac/amp is the Cayin RU7 but I just wanted to upgrade. I really am liking how the sound of the Tube Mini is described, I want something lush, silky, spacious and overall musical. But just that little quirk of the noisy and not totally black background is a little 50/50 for me. It's unfortunate that I have no where to test it. The Mojo 2 I heard many times and love it. But the Tube mini is kind of a blind buy. It's either go for something where I know I'll have no issues. But I know I'll still be extremely curious about the Tube Mini (I do love tubes) or just go for the Tube Mini and deal with that noise.

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I understand what you mean by the Tube Mini being too powerful for iems. But that is no issue at all for me. I used a E1DA 9038s for my iems on performance mode.... I'd just simply set my output level on -16db on UAPP and no issue hahaha. My main portable dac/amp is the Cayin RU7 but I just wanted to upgrade. I really am liking how the sound of the Tube Mini is described, I want something lush, silky, spacious and overall musical. But just that little quirk of the noisy and not totally black background is a little 50/50 for me. It's unfortunate that I have no where to test it. The Mojo 2 I heard many times and love it. But the Tube mini is kind of a blind buy. It's either go for something where I know I'll have no issues. But I know I'll still be extremely curious about the Tube Mini (I do love tubes) or just go for the Tube Mini and deal with that noise.

My suggestion is buy what you know you love.

I love Woo. I have 2 WA8s and the tube mini. But, I'm not paying the price you are because of export/exchange rates. I'm sure used ones will pop up near you (FOTM is real). That way the previous owner took the hit.

 

[Clemmaster]

The tube mini hiss is a killer for me.
When I see people use it with Utopia or Stellia I don’t get how they can tolerate the hiss: I can hear the hiss with ZMF Atrium, DCA E3 and HE1000SE, which are by no means “easy to drive”. The only headphones I don’t hear hiss with are Susvara, but it doesn’t drive them that well.

When I asked Woo audio if I could send my unit back to get it checked for hiss, I was told (twice) that hiss is a “feature” of the Tube mini, and is what gives it its charm (like vinyl). I call this BS and just poor design… it’s a damn shame because it otherwise sounds really great!

 

[davehutch]

The tube mini hiss is a killer for me.
When I see people use it with Utopia or Stellia I don’t get how they can tolerate the hiss: I can hear the hiss with ZMF Atrium, DCA E3 and HE1000SE, which are by no means “easy to drive”. The only headphones I don’t hear hiss with are Susvara, but it doesn’t drive them that well.

When I asked Woo audio if I could send my unit back to get it checked for hiss, I was told (twice) that hiss is a “feature” of the Tube mini, and is what gives it its charm (like vinyl). I call this BS and just poor design… it’s a damn shame because it otherwise sounds really great!

If that is the case, I might give the Aune Flamingo a try for a small piece of 'tubiness' instead.

 

[Zachik]

The tube mini hiss is a killer for me.
When I see people use it with Utopia or Stellia I don’t get how they can tolerate the hiss: I can hear the hiss with ZMF Atrium, DCA E3 and HE1000SE, which are by no means “easy to drive”. The only headphones I don’t hear hiss with are Susvara, but it doesn’t drive them that well.

When I asked Woo audio if I could send my unit back to get it checked for hiss, I was told (twice) that hiss is a “feature” of the Tube mini, and is what gives it its charm (like vinyl). I call this BS and just poor design… it’s a damn shame because it otherwise sounds really great!

Tube Mini is better used with less sensitive headphones. HD600 is a very good example.
Whether you call is a "feature" or just design limitation - it is what it is, but with the "right" headphones, it is quite awesome.

 

[Techfixation]

I wonder what output people have been using when they describe the hiss. From the 3.5mm with my Meze Elite it's barely noticeable (almost silent), however from the 4.4mm it's much more noticeable. Still when there's music playing even with the 4.4mm it's not all that bothersome unless there's a particularly quiet part of the track.

Typically balanced output is more prone to internal noise due to twice the amplification whereas single ended output is more prone to external noise due to RFI/EMI. Unless you really need the extra power single ended could be the better choice and I certainly find that with my Meze Elite.

I will say in comparison the Mojo 2 is dead silent with a completely black background. In terms of sound I'd actually say the Mojo 2 is slightly warmer with more subbass extension, the Tube Mini has more realistic timbre and sharper transients, the Mojo 2 has great timing but slightly rounded edges. Stage size is impressive on both but the Tube Mini has a longer and IMO more natural decay over the quicker decay of the Mojo 2 which gives the Tube Mini a better perception of size and openness.

I've had the Mojo 2 a while and I think it's an amazing device but I sold it shortly after getting the Tube Mini as I find the Mini's sound profile more appealing.

For those with IEM's, even though the Elite are rather sensitive and easy to drive for full size headphones I do believe you will notice more hiss from IEM's so the Mojo 2 could be a better option. Not to mention you'll have much better control over the
volume.

 

[meomap]

I wonder what output people have been using when they describe the hiss. From the 3.5mm with my Meze Elite it's barely noticeable (almost silent), however from the 4.4mm it's much more noticeable. Still when there's music playing even with the 4.4mm it's not all that bothersome unless there's a particularly quiet part of the track.

Typically balanced output is more prone to internal noise due to twice the amplification whereas single ended output is more prone to external noise due to RFI/EMI. Unless you really need the extra power single ended could be the better choice and I certainly find that with my Meze Elite.

I will say in comparison the Mojo 2 is dead silent with a completely black background. In terms of sound I'd actually say the Mojo 2 is slightly warmer with more subbass extension, the Tube Mini has more realistic timbre and sharper transients, the Mojo 2 has great timing but slightly rounded edges. Stage size is impressive on both but the Tube Mini has a longer and IMO more natural decay over the quicker decay of the Mojo 2 which gives the Tube Mini a better perception of size and openness.

I've had the Mojo 2 a while and I think it's an amazing device but I sold it shortly after getting the Tube Mini as I find the Mini's sound profile more appealing.

For those with IEM's, even though the Elite are rather sensitive and easy to drive for full size headphones I do believe you will notice more hiss from IEM's so the Mojo 2 could be a better option. Not to mention you'll have much better control over the
volume.

With true mobile, I go with mojo2.
Stay home then tube mini.
Another newer toy for this weekend on is iBasso PB5 Korg tube hp amp.....Amazing sound......

 

[Techfixation]

With true mobile, I go with mojo2.
Stay home then tube mini.
Another newer toy for this weekend on is iBasso PB5 Korg tube hp amp.....Amazing sound......

Yeah I wouldn't use the Tube Mini "on the go" either, but as a portable option in and around the home. I look forward to hearing your impressions of the PB5 and how it compares to the Tube Mini?

 

[wj18]

The tube mini hiss is a killer for me.
When I see people use it with Utopia or Stellia I don’t get how they can tolerate the hiss: I can hear the hiss with ZMF Atrium, DCA E3 and HE1000SE, which are by no means “easy to drive”. The only headphones I don’t hear hiss with are Susvara, but it doesn’t drive them that well.

When I asked Woo audio if I could send my unit back to get it checked for hiss, I was told (twice) that hiss is a “feature” of the Tube mini, and is what gives it its charm (like vinyl). I call this BS and just poor design… it’s a damn shame because it otherwise sounds really great!

I use it with the U22s + Forza AudioWorks Noir Hybrid HPC cable and get no hiss at all, mind you that's a static desktop setup fed by iPad mini 6 (non-cellular) and maybe my ears aren't as sensitive to hiss anymore, but altogether it's sheer euphonic bliss so your experience really puzzles me, could it be something in your ecosystem?

 

[Techfixation]

I use it with the U22s + Forza AudioWorks Noir Hybrid HPC cable and get no hiss at all, mind you that's a static desktop setup fed by iPad mini 6 and maybe my ears aren't as sensitive to hiss anymore, but altogether it's sheer euphonic bliss so your experience really puzzles me, could it be something in your ecosystem?

Do you use it balanced or single ended? I use the same Forza Cable in 4.4mm termination but I use a DD HiFi DJ44C 3.5mm adapter as I get significantly less hiss from the 3.5mm.

 

[wj18]

Do you use it balanced or single ended? I use the same Forza Cable in 4.4mm termination but I use a DD HiFi DJ44C 3.5mm adapter as I get significantly less hiss from the 3.5mm.

Balanced, I no longer have a 3.5mm terminated cable but the adapter you're using is a good one so I doubt that's what is creating the problem.

 

[Promee]

Just finished a little experiment that I hope some will find helpful If considering using it with a phone. Plugging the device straight into the phone is definitely going to result in audible interference from the cellular radio when it is running (not typically an issue when cellular is off and phone is only using WiFi), as Woo themselves and others here have pointed out. This is separate from the hiss, which is present at a low to moderate level in all of the following conditions. I did this test with my Focal Celestee and a 4.4 mm Apos Flow 5 ft. cable.

1) I connected to my Raspberry Pi 4B that I use as a Roon endpoint with Ropieee. Hiss is there, but no significant interference the sounds like wireless digital transmission.

2) I connected to my Raspberry Pi 4B with a Topping HS02 galvanic isolator in the middle - no difference from 1.

3) I connected to my iPhone 15 Pro Max directly through USB-C - extremely obvious and bothersome cellular radio noise.

4) I connected to my iPhone through the Topping HS02 with the Tube Mini at the same proximity on the table - cellular radio noise greatly attenuated.

5) While still connected to iPhone through the HS02, I moved the phone over the Tube Mini and the noise increased, but not to anything like the degree present when plugged into the phone.

6) I moved the Tube Mini and HS02 as far from the phone as possible and had almost full attenuation of cellular noise while browsing, streaming, and reloading websites.

7) Back on the Raspberry Pi, I moved the phone over the Tube Mini though it was not physically connected and loaded some websites - some cellular radio noise was present, much less than when plugged directly into the phone.


This has led me to conclude that the cellular radio noise enters the Tube Mini by 2 mechanisms.

1) Through direct connection with the phone, presumably through the power transmission through USB-C as opposed to the data, as the HS02 greatly reduced the severity of the sound. Just trying to think of other differences - there was more total wire between the two with the HS02 attached, but I don’t think this was the reason for improvement. Proximity was not a factor here as the phone and Mini were kept at the same physical distance on the table.

2) Through RF interference transmitted through the air. I believe that this is a smaller part of the overall issue than number 1, but it is definitely a factor. It seemed that I needed to increase the distance from the Mini as well as from the HS02 - as keeping the phone close to the HS02 still seemed to result in some noticeable interference. When both devices were moved far enough away, I did not notice any interference (while still connected to the phone through the HS02)

_______

I did an additional test while I had the items handy and plugged into my iPad Pro 6th gen w/ cellular via USB-C. Once again the galvanic isolator helped to reduce the cellular interference, however, it was not able to completely stop it, unlike with the iPhone. This was true even when the tube mini and HS02 were plugged into a 6 ft cord and kept as far back as possible. Also notable, I do believe the bass response for really big bass drum hits / loud sub-bass synths is a tiny bit better on the iPad. Someone had mentioned above that it may have a higher allowable power output via USB than the phone, but the difference is pretty small to my ears.

_______

***EDIT*** I picked up an in-line USB power tester and compared the scenarios with extra power available and when connecting to different devices. There was no difference in any scenario when the Tube Mini was powering my HD600 through a balanced connection. I tried connecting to USB A and C ports on Raspberry Pi, with and without auxillary power and in all cases the Tube Mini was drawing 0.118-0.130 A at 5 V which puts its power consumption around 0.65 W. This is well under the 0.500 A that iPhone can output, so I now really doubt that this is making any difference. Placebo effect is a powerful force, and I think that may be what I was hearing below. I will leave my initial impressions, but I am no longer confident that extra power is beneficial. ***END EDIT***

Just as I was about to hit post on this, one more test idea hit me. I remembered seeing in the manual for the HS02 that the port that is not being used for data could be used as a power source, so I got a 5V / 2.1A wall wart and dug out a high quality shielded USB A to B cable. I hooked up the HS02 via USB-C to the iPhone and via USB-C out to the included adapter to the Tube Mini. It stayed powered even when the phone was unplugged in this configuration, and once the phone was connected, I could hot plug and unplug the USB-B power connection with no interruption in playback, which allowed for immediate A/B testing. On the track 15 Step from In Rainbows by Radiohead, the bass response was improved when connected to additional power. On Starboy by The Weeknd, I noticed improved slam / intensity of bass and less distortion of vocals over the repeated sub-bass hits. My theory is that, at least with the relatively easy to drive Celestee, it is clipping ever so slightly off of phone power alone, barely noticeable, but full extension is possible with the additional power connected. Maybe this would be more noticeable on a harder to drive headphone.

Sliding a little deeper into the rabbit hole, just to be totally absurd, I dug out a BRZHiFi 5V/25W linear power supply that I had picked up on eBay for my Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital before I sold it. When I hooked this up instead of the wall wart for the additional power, I heard… no discernible difference at all from the wall wart providing the extra power, but hey, there’s nothing wrong with being a little over the top in this hobby…

_______

One last little bit of info I gathered. When hooking up the Raspberry Pi to the HS02 again via USB-A to B, and this time connecting the USB-C input on the HS02 to the Zendure Supertank Pro via the second USB-C port on that device. The Supertank Pro’s display shows a 0.2 W power draw when the Tube Mini is not connected, and when it is connected it shows a draw of 1.3-1.75 W, variable with volume (with 1.75 appearing only at obviously unsafe listening levels). This would confirm that the HS02 is, in fact, using the input that is not being used for signal to receive some power. Subtracting it out, this would suggest that the Tube Mini may be drawing as much as 1.1-1.55 W. I’m not sure if this wattage is reported relative to the 5V being requested by the Tube Mini or an internal higher voltage on the power bank, but a reasonability check would suggest not, as the Tube Mini is supposed to output 1W into 8 Ohms, so with the only slightly higher impedance Celestee, it would make sense that it would be putting out a little less than a Watt and chalk the difference up to the energy used by the DAC and losses due to efficiency. Also confirmed same power use amount / behavior by connecting the iPhone through a USB C to A adapter and a USB A to B cable into HS02 and USB C from Supertank to HS02, so not using more additional power when connected this way than when connected to Raspberry Pi’s USB port.

Interestingly, it would appear that this power is supplementary, as I had a very long (15 or 20 feet) USB A to B cable with resistors that I had previously used to try to troubleshoot a problem connecting a device to my computer. When I attempted to play music by connecting this to the Raspberry Pi and the HS02, the music was extremely grainy and muffled (not a subtle audiophile effect, obviously not functioning correctly), and this did not improve with connecting the extra power (though the Supertank still showed a 1.6 W output, so maybe it was an issue of data transmission). It was fixed by switching to the short USB A-B cable included by Topping with the device.

________

Overall, I think that using the Tube Mini with a phone with cellular enabled is not ideal, however, if you are pulling data through WiFi or are listening to locally stored songs, you are only likely to notice interference when receiving a call or send / receiving text messages (or using cellular data for browsing, etc. if listening off of your internal storage). The power may be slightly limiting, and this may be more of a factor on headphones that are less sensitive than the Celestee.

This was done pretty quickly, and it is possible that there may be other variables I didn’t consider or some interference that I just didn’t hear. In other words, YMMV, but I hope that this info is helpful for anyone who may have a use case where a device with cellular connectivity is all that is available and it is not practical to go into airplane mode. If you are going to attempt this and you are able, I would strongly suggest adding a Topping HS02 and a 6 foot USB cable to your kit to allow for electrical and physical separation respectively, and if you want to max out quality, use a charger connected to the unused input on the HS02 to make up for the difference in power if using an under-powered output device like an iPhone.

 

[stevedlu]

Anyone know if the Woo Mini pairs well with the Audioquest Nighthawk or Nightowl?