Winnipeg meets' thread (Ongoing)

[deeplogic]

Quote:

Good Lord when did I become such a sound addict ?

Probably around the time you started posting headphone reviews at 3 in the morning.

 

[Armaegis]

Hey guys, I'm in talks with Doc B (the owner of Bottlehead, they make all sorts of tube stuff: speaker amps, headphone amps, preamps, phono preamps) to potentially trade headphones for some of their gear. I've built several of their kits and they do sound fantastic.
 
Here's their site: http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php
 
Anyhow, they are mostly interested in full sized and vintage stuff. If you've got something you've been thinking of selling or trading, and/or if any of the bottlehead stuff interests you, drop me a pm with what you've got so it'll increase our collective bargaining power.
 
I can also build kits for people if interested.

 

[DigitalFreak]

Does anyone on here believe in burn in?

 

[Armaegis]

I've tried to give it the benefit of the doubt, but from my experiences I remain highly skeptical. Drivers loosening up in the membranes does occur, but this typically happens at the very beginning and the shifts are not terribly strong. The only exception I can figure here would be if the stiffness coefficient changed enough to move a harmonic distortion peak, which would likely create a half-phase shift which for all intents and purposes should not be audible to the human ear anyways.
 
What I do believe in though is the frame of the headphone breaking in. Given the proximity of the drivers, slight changes in positioning can lead to noticeable changes in sound. This can be from the pads softening, frame loosening, elastics stretching, etc. As the pads age, they will also compress which changes the coupling pressure with your head. This affects low end transmission into your head, as well as changes back wave reflections to the headphone and driver stability.

 

[acidbasement]

I suspect psychological burn-in is a bigger factor than the physical burn-in a lot of people swear exists.  It takes me awhile to switch from one headphone to another and get used to the "new" sound signature, despite the fact that none of my headphones are particularly new.  I've certainly seen a lot fewer arguments about the existence of headphone and speaker burn-in than about amp and dac burn-in, due to the loosening of drivers that Nathan mentioned (ie. there is a mechanism that might explain it at least).
 
Can't wait to try out those DT1350s!  I'll be out of province till the start of September, and in Winnipeg on Sept. 27 in case anyone wants to get together then.

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

I've tried to give it the benefit of the doubt, but from my experiences I remain highly skeptical. Drivers loosening up in the membranes does occur, but this typically happens at the very beginning and the shifts are not terribly strong. The only exception I can figure here would be if the stiffness coefficient changed enough to move a harmonic distortion peak, which would likely create a half-phase shift which for all intents and purposes should not be audible to the human ear anyways.
 
What I do believe in though is the frame of the headphone breaking in. Given the proximity of the drivers, slight changes in positioning can lead to noticeable changes in sound. This can be from the pads softening, frame loosening, elastics stretching, etc. As the pads age, they will also compress which changes the coupling pressure with your head. This affects low end transmission into your head, as well as changes back wave reflections to the headphone and driver stability.

 
I wasn't a big believer of burn in either but now I'm  wishing you had been with me the first time I threw some music at my DT1350's so you could tell me if what I'm hearing now is just a mental placebo. I didn't want to say it without giving these cans the benefit of the doubt but I was a little disappointed in it's sound. My main pain with these HP's were the vocals, for a lack of a better description the vocals had a very unnatural tinny tone to them and it was quite annoying. Last night before going to bed I plugged the DT1350's into my laptop hoping it would make a difference and the same tinny metallic tone was present in the vocals. Disappointed I decided to call it a night but before crashing as an experiment I plugged in my iPod chose my top rated playlist and left it playing through the night and morning with repeat shuffle going. This afternoon I decided to try the DT1350's and see if I could find music that would work well with it. Last night when I gave up I was playing Melody Gardot and her vocals just wasn't to my liking on the DT 1350's. This morning is a different story the tinniness is practically gone now. If I really listen for it I can notice it in spots but for all extensive purposes it's gone and Melody Gardot's vocals now sound real nice. I'm also noticing the overall sound although still on the lean analytical sound is nowhere near as lean as it was last night. The bass has become very slightly fuller in spots and the mids seem to really have straightened out and refined themselves. The highs still have that nice sparkle without being screechy. In my first post on these things I stated my HD25 did the metal genre more justice but after some quick listening today metal doesn't sound half bad on the DT1350's. The HD25's still do metal better but the DT1350's aren't to far behind in their presentation of the genre anymore. Seriously I was so surprised I even went into my sound card settings and my iTunes settings to see if they were set the way I remembered them and everything is set the way I remember it.
 
I don't know you think it's just a mental placebo?

 

[Armaegis]

 
Quote:

I suspect psychological burn-in is a bigger factor than the physical burn-in a lot of people swear exists.  It takes me awhile to switch from one headphone to another and get used to the "new" sound signature, despite the fact that none of my headphones are particularly new.  I've certainly seen a lot fewer arguments about the existence of headphone and speaker burn-in than about amp and dac burn-in, due to the loosening of drivers that Nathan mentioned (ie. there is a mechanism that might explain it at least).
 
 

 

Yeah, the whole psychological/placebo thing. I just didn't want to bother with that whole can of worms.
 
Inner Fidelity has an interesting article on break in here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break
There's a follow up one as well if you dig through the archive.
 
Amp/dac burn-in makes me thump my head against a wall. For solid state devices, nothing should change. Vacuum tubes will change because they are literally burning out, so in theory should sound best when new or slightly used (when the filaments and plate reach a quasi-equilibrium state), not after a thousand hours of break in. Some arguments can be made for film capacitors, but those are tenuous at best. The rest of it, circuits and wires etc should not change. The material properties do not change at the voltages and temperatures involved.
 
 
Quote:

Can't wait to try out those DT1350s!  I'll be out of province till the start of September, and in Winnipeg on Sept. 27 in case anyone wants to get together then.

 
We can tentatively set a meet for then 

 How about a BBQ like the first time?

 

[dahan]

I do believe in burn in, I have heard a sound change in my new headphones and amps that I have bought over years..

 

[DigitalFreak]

So you guys think it's just me wanting to really like my DT1350's or maybe it just took awhile for my brain to get used to the sound signature?

 

[Armaegis]

Probably a little of both. Any big purchases have a lot of mental self-justification built in. We spend all this money on new toys, and we have to tell ourselves that it was worth it.

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

Probably a little of both. Any big purchases have a lot of mental self-justification built in. We spend all this money on new toys, and we have to tell ourselves that it was worth it.

Mmmmm maybe you're right. Over the coarse of the afternoon I also started playing around with the positioning on my head. I've shortened the cup length one notch slightly repositioned the cups a millimeter or two further forward on my ears and slightly repositioned the headband so its real tight up against my skull. With the cup length shortening/repositioning  the cups are really really tight up against my ears. If the cups get any tighter they're going to be sitting inside my skull. I've been wearing them for a good couple of hours and I'm still not experiencing any discomfort. The repositioning seems to have caused the sound to have filled in a little bit more and the vocals are really sounding good now. I don't know maybe I wasn't as lucky with positioning as I originally thought? In any case whether or not it's mental placebo repositioning or the famed burn in debate the sound has started to really open up for me and I'm enjoying these cans. The bass is nice without being over powering and the highs and vocals are also nice. I also did a quick A and B with my iPod vs my laptop. On my laptop I'm using the same volume setting as I use with my other cans and it works just fine. On my iPod I'm having to crank up the volume to get the same volume. I can hardly wait to try my cmoy on these cans and experiment with op amp rolling. I'm starting to wonder what a tubey sounding op amp would do to the sound of this can. Looks like you were right Nathan op amp rolling probably is a curse.

 

[DigitalFreak]

Hey Nathan check out the link. I laughed when I saw the Beta22 enclosure the guy was using
 
 

 

[Awah]

Im going to toss up my pico amp with dac on the for sale and trade forums today for 350+s/h. If any
winnipeggers are interested let me know (no shipping of course id jus drop it off) cheers

 

[mythless]

Quote:

OK I'm back from work and I'm tired but I'll add a bit more to my previous post. The DT1350 sound for me is really weird. While the HD25 is lush and laid back the 1350 is far leaner sounding. As work station studio monitors they would probably perform well with it's analytical sound. I dare say their sound could even be described as rather tinny and dry with certain songs. That being said I still have to put this can through more before I can give a more full description of it's signature. Another thing I should add is while my HD25's can scream at roughly 75 or 80% volume setting from my iPod touch I practically have to have my iPod cranked to about 95 to 100% with the 1350's to attain the same full loud screaming sound that my HD25's are capable of. Although they can be driven well by an iPod I'm guessing the 1350's might respond better to amping.  Tomorrow I'm going to try hooking them up to my Acer laptop which has a more warmer sound card and see how these can's respond. I also have an old stereo with a 5 cd disk changer in my room and I may even try plugging them in and see how they respond. My guess right now is maybe I can get more out of them if I mess around and try throwing more juice at them.
 
Good Lord when did I become such a sound addict ?

Hrmm interesting review, the Tesla drivers seem to love power and actually responds very well to amp.  The Pico Slim works well with my T50P.  Sadly, I don't use my headphones much anymore.
 

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

Hrmm interesting review, the Tesla drivers seem to love power and actually responds very well to amp.  The Pico Slim works well with my T50P.  Sadly, I don't use my headphones much anymore.
 

Believe me when I say this HP has got to be the most finicky can when it comes to positioning. Since I finally found a proper seal my observations have changed over the last day or so. I just threw some Tragically Hip at them and I'm really loving what these cans can do for the Day For Night album