[macm75]

I've been listening to a new pair of HD 580's for over a week now and unfortunately I'm disappointed with them out of the box. Sure I've heard the 580's are polite and laid back but if you ask me, so far, these cans are undynamic. They possess little upper mid - higher freq extension. Brass instruments, soprano sax, and cymbals in particular are washed out and lack natural color. So my question is will they get better with burn-in or should I sell them because that is the nature of these headphones? Well of course I will give them more of a chance to break-in but I wondered if there is hope. (I drive the cans with a Mapletree Ear kit amp and Vinnie/Swenson modded Toshiba CD player. Nothing tops but certainly good enough to hear plently of dynamic sound from my older SR-80's.)
Thank You!

 

[feh1325]

do you have an amp?

 

[mariowar]

macm75, coming from the Grado signature sound, you are going to have a hard time with either the Senns 580, 600 or 650s. The Sennheiser veil is well regarded across this forum. Some people enjoy the relaxed and wider soundstage the Senns provide, others miss the in your face, fun sound of Grados and the extra sparke in the top end.
The only Sennheisers that have something in common with the Grados are the Hd590s which are a little brighter than the 580, and 600s. Additionally, even though they have the classic signature sound of Sennheiser they are known to have a Gradoish vibe in its sound.
I recommend you the new (2005) Beyer Dynamic DT990s, they are prettier, comftier than the 580s and they represent the BEST compromise between Sennheiser and Grado. You'll get the WIDE soundstage of Sennheiser, the best bass (deep and tight) in its class, very good mids and that extra sparkle in the top end that you are missing.

 

[jdimitri]

Before anything, take off the pads and remove the thin foam and see if that helps

 

[Davesrose]

It sounds like it's your amp.....did a quick check of it on this site, I noticed it's a tube amp suited for Grados. NO WONDER!!! They would bring out a veil on Sennheisers. The trick with Sennheisers is to use uncolored amps with them. IMHO, that's the only reason why some Head-Fiers experience veil. I love my HD600s for rock....there's plenty of brightness with my setup! A system that synergizes with a Grado is completely different then a system that synergizes with a Sennheiser (since Grados tend to be bright, and Sennheisers tend to be bass heavy on weak sources). So either don't get into Sennheisers (no, it's not the headphone's fault), or think about another amp that does justice for the HD580s.

some threads that show what this synergy is all about:

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206906
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206539

 

[Uncle Erik]

I was thinking the same thing. Sennheisers sound nice and lush with tubes, but that overemphasizes their shortcomings. I've found that Sennheisers are at the best with a fast, neutral solid state amp. Personally, I like them with the Dynalo/Gilmore Lite. Since you've already built a kit, why not look into a Dynalo? You can get the PCB and a full build manual here:

http://www.djgardner.com/headphone/gilmore/

They can be built for around $100, and I think they're a great bargain. You can also pick up the PCBs for a Dynahi there, which is a little more work and expense, but very well loved. Also, many people like the M^3. I haven't heard one, but I will build one eventually. You can find everything you need here:

http://www.amb.org/audio/mmm/

 

[loudwood]

I am a long time owner of Senn HD580.
I don't exactly understand what you mean by "undynamic".
It is a very dark and laid back can for sure. Having said
that, if you want something to pound your ears constantly,
HD580 will definitely make you disappointed. But if you enjoy
relaxed and smooth sound, especially if you want something
to build enjoyable atmosphere for reading or entering sleep,
it is a perfect can.

My personal suggest is to try HD580 with ballads, bossa nova
and broadway/American pop, you will be amazed by how much
joy it can bring. Also make sure you adjust the metal band to achieve
a relaxed fit. It may take some time for you to find the comfort
zone.

Last word, it is a real bargain now. If you can find one, I suggest you
hold it. Trust me, you will want some time with quiet music as you
accumulate more wrinkles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by macm75 I've been listening to a new pair of HD 580's for over a week now and unfortunately I'm disappointed with them out of the box. Sure I've heard the 580's are polite and laid back but if you ask me, so far, these cans are undynamic. They possess little upper mid - higher freq extension. Brass instruments, soprano sax, and cymbals in particular are washed out and lack natural color. So my question is will they get better with burn-in or should I sell them because that is the nature of these headphones? Well of course I will give them more of a chance to break-in but I wondered if there is hope. (I drive the cans with a Mapletree Ear kit amp and Vinnie/Swenson modded Toshiba CD player. Nothing tops but certainly good enough to hear plently of dynamic sound from my older SR-80's.) Thank You!

 

[VR6ofpain]

If you mean sounding better, no. They will always be very dull sounding. It is a Sennheiser thing, seems some people just don't dig it (myself included). Pick up a K501 for $99.95 (or a DT-880 for $149.95) for a different taste. You might want something a little more exciting.

 

[Davesrose]

The 501s are a lot more distant then the 580s......and no, the 580s are only dark when paired with a system that's bass heavy. Uncle Erik is right....a fast solid state is the easiest amp that drives Senns. On my setup, the 580s are perfect for rock and jazz (you get the deep bass for percussions, and you get plenty of high treble for brass). Only with a colored amp do you just get a muffled sound. If you're coming from the Grados, the 501s would be shockingly different (no bass, huge soundstage that makes it seem like the music is 100 feet away from you...as dull as it gets). So get an appropriate amp if you want to experience Sennheisers or AKGs. If you like your Grados and amp, stick with Grados.....Beyers probably could work too (they tend to be bright too)

 

[kramer5150]

Youre amping it with the wrong amp... Stacked buffer / AD823 loaded pimeta at 24V is a better starter amp IMHO for the 580. Best amp for the $$$ I have heard with my HD580 was an M^3, with OP amps picked for HD650 synnergy. It really amped new life into my HD580.

They are also pretty source sensitive too.... garbage in-garbage-out. If your source is not capable of revealing detail, or sounds distant... those qualities will be enhanced by the HD580.

Ditto on the Gilmore lite.
Ditto on the foam removal, give it a shot for starters. I knock a hole in mine and it really livens them up.

Good Luck!!

 

[macm75]

Actually, that "in your face" face sound from the Grado's is the reason I chose to go the Sennheiser route. It drove me nuts for too long. Don't get me wrong, there are aspects I like about the 580's. Far more tighter and controlled bass than the SR-80's and I also very much enjoy the airy or more transparent sound. Lastly they are pleasantly comfortable.
Now concerning your comments, I guarentee you're right - the amp must be changed. Now my only problem is I am a DIY tube guy at heart. Looks like I will have to break my rule and build a solid state amp.
I greatly appreaciate your comments.

 

[Davesrose]

Some tube amps do well with Senns, but it is much harder to find a tube that zings with it vs a solid state. Although I've heard some of the cheaper cmoy solid states aren't as good, since they can get kinda warm too. If you don't want to sink a whole lot of money into it right now, I would suggest something like the HeadRoom airhead ($150). Or for DIY, try the Dynalo. Essentially, anything HeadRoom, Meier (like that Headfiive), or Gilmore is pretty safe. Once you get an appropriate amp, I'm sure you'll enjoy the 580!

IMHO, they're the best headphone for having a soundstage, having bass, yet be pretty lively. I think you'd like an inbetween phone like the 580 (the 595 is a bit more in your face....so something to consider if you still find the 580 a bit too laid back). I think you'll find phones like the 501 shockingly distant (coming from an in your face Grado).

 

[Gradofan2]

Your HD580's (or HD600's / HD650's) may need more tweaks / upgrades than you're prepared to make (or that may be able to be justified) - you may be better off just upgrading to SR225's, or RS-2's, or RS-1's, unless you plan to upgrade your amp.

Do some searches on HD580/HD600/HD650's and you'll quickly discover that they need to be "deveiled," as well as be matched with the right source, IC's, amp, and headphone cable in order to sound their best (which is extraordinary). And... the HD580's need their grills swapped out for the HD600, or HD650 grills (the HD650's are better because the don't dent as easily).

As far as amps go - the XCAN v3 is ideal with the Senns, because it has sufficient power to control / drive them, and is a tube hybrid with the best of both worlds. Good SS amps are OK... but, they don't have the magical / realistic sound of tubes.

So... unless you're prepared to invest in all this stuff - you're far better off to just stick with wonderful Grados, and just upgrade to any of those noted above with your Mapletree Ear (which is a great amp with Grados). And... another very worthwhile upgrade with that setup, would be to upgrade your MAD Ear to the EAR+ HD (you can either buy the parts and DIY, or send it back to MAD and have them upgrade it for you). That's more realistic and will likely cost you less, than selling your EAR and buying a new EAR+ HD.

You will never get to quite the same sound with the Senns, as you get from your Grados - although you can get very close, with a bit bigger, very impressive sound. But... you have to invest quite a lot to get there.

If I were in your position... and didn't want to "break the bank" - that's exactly what I'd do - get the RS-2's, or RS-1's + upgrade to the MAD EAR+ HD, or perhaps the Heed CanAmp.

 

[Davesrose]

IMHO, the mods to the 580s are very finite.....something to do once you find an amp/source that you like for them. For example, the 600 grill only improves bass response by a very tiny amount. The defoaming only opens up the mids by a very finite amount. Getting a good amp really opens up the 580s.