DMR
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Maybe try one of these? Shop Clari-Fi -- Intunition
Will a resistor adaptor diminish sony hiss? Help clarify my understanding of impedance!
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jant71
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Faichiu is right that sensitivity of the phones is equally important. Now, seeing you have the SA6 there is the anwser. Their sensitivity is why you still hear the hiss but less than the stock since the impedance is greater than the stock phones. If you had, say the q-Jays(40 Ohm, 95 sensitivity), that combo of lower sensitivity and higher impedance would almost eliminate it. I had the Sony while using Yuin PK2's and ES cable modded SF3's. The Yuin(32 Ohm) had no hiss while the 13 Ohm, 115 sens. Ultimate ears had some hiss as it was easier to drive plus more sensitive. The adapter helped nicely with the hiss but did not totally eliminate it when using the UE.
The SA6 plus adapter should do the trick as the Sleeks' are already not that bad. Can't tell you if it will totally go away. I would say that the 75ohm is still the best amount. Punnisher says 50 Ohm should cure it but I still had some with 75 Ohm and a Sony 610.
As for adapters, I use the actual Etymotic one. Head-direct has one for $25 and some people seem to like it. You can find their link on the left side of the page in one of the boxes with the Head-fi sponsors etc.
Good luck with it! And hopefully Sony can get continue to get their act together. Their minidiscs have no hiss and a larger soundstage than their MP3 players. They certainly can make them right but they want the most profit and don't quite use the better components anymore. They have improved but aren't quite "back" yet.
The SA6 plus adapter should do the trick as the Sleeks' are already not that bad. Can't tell you if it will totally go away. I would say that the 75ohm is still the best amount. Punnisher says 50 Ohm should cure it but I still had some with 75 Ohm and a Sony 610.
As for adapters, I use the actual Etymotic one. Head-direct has one for $25 and some people seem to like it. You can find their link on the left side of the page in one of the boxes with the Head-fi sponsors etc.
Good luck with it! And hopefully Sony can get continue to get their act together. Their minidiscs have no hiss and a larger soundstage than their MP3 players. They certainly can make them right but they want the most profit and don't quite use the better components anymore. They have improved but aren't quite "back" yet.
ILikeMusic
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BloodSugar00, the design impedance of the player's amp output or the phones themselves do not produce hiss pre se, hiss is simply the result of poor signal/noise performance in the amplifier. The reason adding resistance helps is that it lowers the level of hiss. It also lowers the level of the desired sound, but increasing the volume can overcome that. The net effect is that the hiss is reduced but the desired signal stays the same.
High-sensitivity phones are good things as they can make the most of the signal delivered to them, but they do require a quiet amp to avoid problems with hiss. So hiss problems are not related to the phones themselves, but rather the DAP driving them. The Sony player's audio seems to be highly touted but if they have this problem then it looks like some improvement is possible.
Short of using a higher-performance DAP an attenuator (resistor adapter) can help. An attenuator will not necessarily harm SQ in the slightest so usually no real concern about that... the only likely scenario in this regard might be using too much attenuation and in turn having to turn up the volume too much, possibly creating distortion. So... just don't use too much attenuation, just whatever is necessary to reduce the hiss to a tolerable level... it shouldn't take much.
High-sensitivity phones are good things as they can make the most of the signal delivered to them, but they do require a quiet amp to avoid problems with hiss. So hiss problems are not related to the phones themselves, but rather the DAP driving them. The Sony player's audio seems to be highly touted but if they have this problem then it looks like some improvement is possible.
Short of using a higher-performance DAP an attenuator (resistor adapter) can help. An attenuator will not necessarily harm SQ in the slightest so usually no real concern about that... the only likely scenario in this regard might be using too much attenuation and in turn having to turn up the volume too much, possibly creating distortion. So... just don't use too much attenuation, just whatever is necessary to reduce the hiss to a tolerable level... it shouldn't take much.
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all my daps sound much better when i use 75ohm resistor for my victor 16ohm 100db sensitive fx-500. same with my 32ohm 112db atrios. i have not tried it with armature phones, as i used to use an amp but the hiss from an amp is bad too.
the resistor gets rid of all but the worst of hisses. my sony still hisses but not terribly. i can detect a small very small whisper from my ipod touch where my nano 3g is silent. the d2 went silent as well where it hissed a little before. my meizu m6 is not with me now but that will be a test. i assume it will hiss less than the sony with the cable but... not possitive, they both hiss madly
bass: tighter as there is less roll off: more definition in the low end, so no boom
stage: much wider
hiss: near null
the resistor gets rid of all but the worst of hisses. my sony still hisses but not terribly. i can detect a small very small whisper from my ipod touch where my nano 3g is silent. the d2 went silent as well where it hissed a little before. my meizu m6 is not with me now but that will be a test. i assume it will hiss less than the sony with the cable but... not possitive, they both hiss madly
bass: tighter as there is less roll off: more definition in the low end, so no boom
stage: much wider
hiss: near null
Drag0n
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I use an inline volume control on my IEMs if i hear a hiss, and the hiss is gone. I keep one in my music bag with me in case i need it.
BloodSugar00
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Soz for late resonse but I have been away from a computer for a few days.
Cheers everyone for your informative replies! Very much appreciated. It appears the sensitivity of headphones was the factor I wasnt taking into account, and, maybe others who supposed sony daps were great at driving low impedance phones but not high impedance ones (though I do remember both the terms impedance and sensitivity being used in these assertions and maybe I didnt recognise their independance). Hence why I got confused. Thanks for helping me gain the clarity and understanding I was after, and, ultimately, realising the very postive opportunity available to me in being able to aquire an attenuator/resistance adaptor, and, thus, be able to reduce dap hiss whilst also improving aspects of SQ. Very sweet news as the hiss is becoming mildly annoying, slightly tarnishing an otherwise very impressive sound response from my 829! Some shure black olives, a resistor adaptor, a protective case for the DAP, a new cable to replace the currently faulty one I own for my sa6 and its looking like I'll have a nice little portable setup at my disposal! Get in!
Cheers everyone for your informative replies! Very much appreciated. It appears the sensitivity of headphones was the factor I wasnt taking into account, and, maybe others who supposed sony daps were great at driving low impedance phones but not high impedance ones (though I do remember both the terms impedance and sensitivity being used in these assertions and maybe I didnt recognise their independance). Hence why I got confused. Thanks for helping me gain the clarity and understanding I was after, and, ultimately, realising the very postive opportunity available to me in being able to aquire an attenuator/resistance adaptor, and, thus, be able to reduce dap hiss whilst also improving aspects of SQ. Very sweet news as the hiss is becoming mildly annoying, slightly tarnishing an otherwise very impressive sound response from my 829! Some shure black olives, a resistor adaptor, a protective case for the DAP, a new cable to replace the currently faulty one I own for my sa6 and its looking like I'll have a nice little portable setup at my disposal! Get in!
BloodSugar00,
More than a year passed since the last post here and you've changed to higher class IEMs, but I'd like to know, what resistor adapter did you get to block the hiss then, and at what impedance?
More than a year passed since the last post here and you've changed to higher class IEMs, but I'd like to know, what resistor adapter did you get to block the hiss then, and at what impedance?
qusp
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nobody mentioned the fact that an impedance adapter can have unpredictable effects on the performance and FR of multiple driver IEMs as it effects the performance of the crossover circuit. some become brighter, some become more bassy, so EQ is very helpful to overcome this. basically the resistor is like a wall to the hiss. the hiss is more correlated to the sensitivity of the phones than impedance exactly. basically the resistor presents a barrier that means that small fluctuations/noise in the signal are no-longer enough to move the driver enough to be noticeable.
Punnisher
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I'd like to add that adding impedance does indeed change the frequency response of any earphone. To what degree may vary depending on the earphone and the value of the resistor.
For example my UE sf3 had an upward shift in frequency response after I added between 50-90 ohms. This was actually a positive change because the sound was very dull, veiled, boomy and dark.
Anyway, I usually don't mess with added resistance anymore. It's not worth the effort. I just research gear before I buy to make sure it's got the sound I want and isn't so sensitive.
For example my UE sf3 had an upward shift in frequency response after I added between 50-90 ohms. This was actually a positive change because the sound was very dull, veiled, boomy and dark.
Anyway, I usually don't mess with added resistance anymore. It's not worth the effort. I just research gear before I buy to make sure it's got the sound I want and isn't so sensitive.
Quote:
Maybe nobody mentioned that, because probability of umpredictable effects to happen isn't a fact by itself yet, especially when SA6 IEMs have single drivers. No offence
Quote:
Good point. I'm happy to use SA6's with portable DAP's, but there are times when i need to plug them in a PC or notebook, which hiss way too noticeably.
Hmm, if same adapter would have different effects with different DAPs, I'll better make my own resistor adapter and experiment with it's resistance. Right.
| Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif nobody mentioned the fact that an impedance adapter can have unpredictable effects on the performance and FR of multiple driver IEMs as it effects the performance of the crossover circuit. |
Maybe nobody mentioned that, because probability of umpredictable effects to happen isn't a fact by itself yet, especially when SA6 IEMs have single drivers. No offence
Quote:
| Originally Posted by Punnisher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyway, I usually don't mess with added resistance anymore. It's not worth the effort. I just research gear before I buy to make sure it's got the sound I want and isn't so sensitive. |
Good point. I'm happy to use SA6's with portable DAP's, but there are times when i need to plug them in a PC or notebook, which hiss way too noticeably.
Hmm, if same adapter would have different effects with different DAPs, I'll better make my own resistor adapter and experiment with it's resistance. Right.
BloodSugar00
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Wow, this is an old thread brought back from the dead!
The responses you've received since reawakening this thread make sense and reveal a probable factor not previously discussed in this thread, nor that I was made aware of back then in other threads/discussions when I was geting my head around impedance and impedance adaptors and evaluating for myself whether to aquire one for my portable rig (the only clue I was given was that adding impedance could help add bass, though I didn't connect this to resistor adaptors altering the FR of DAPs/hps/rigs, but rather with the physics of the added impedance to electronic circuit helping the relatively low quality and/or low power amp of the concerned DAP to better drive the phones in question, thus removing any roll-offs in the FR caused my previous poorer driving of headphones without the added impedance present, the bass region, in my experience, often being the one to suffer roll-off in these circumstances; I can see how both of these effects can apply/affect the output FR independently now, however, when using an impedance adaptor in a portable rig, how they are both relevant). So, up until now, that adding resistor adaptors to portable rigs can change the FR of the phones used in the rig- this only the phones ie can the FR/sonic signature of the DAP and/or the synergy between the DAP and the hps not be altered?; understand that, if FR/sonic character of hps is changed, their synergy with DAP would be different anyway but can the addition of an impedance adaptor not independently affect the sound of the DAP before syngery or does it affect the synergy ie when it has an effect on FR of sound, the DAP and hps sound has already synergised?- had not been something I'd been formally aware of, though and despite never getting round yet toconducting my own hands on evaluations, was something I suspected from having used resitor adaptors in my portable rigs, fundamentally to eliminate (the possibility) of driver hiss, since shortly after the original time period of this thread.
To answer your PM to me active, I originally used an 120 Ohm Oehlbach plug-type attenuator, purchased from another member here at Head-fi about 13 months or so ago. I found that fantastic; it eliminated hiss, I could still get impressive volume levels- more than I needed- out of my Sony A-829, it looked aethetically sharp and it was practical for portability, being physically small and compact, slotting into my rig extermely neatly. The only problem I've had with this adaptor is when, some time later (early 09), I bought an ipod classic 6.5G as, using this adaptor with this DAP often- dependent on music/recording- meant, relative to the DAP in question, the volume levelshad to b right at the upper end with little in abeyance for higher volumes. I put this down to the 120 Ohms of resistance and eventually bought a 75 Ohm varietal, still plug-type; despite the common criticism/disuading factor for many of using this type of adaptor causing too much stress on the hp jack of audio device it's being used in conjunction with, I had no experience of this drawback and couldn't see it as having much relevance to my useage habits; since, this adaptor snapped when I was in Spain recently for Benicasim festival ie releatively rough living, so, certainly in such conditions were one is naturally less careful and/or clean living, I can see how this drawback can come into play. I'm planning on aquiring anotherone of these asap (got from recommended ebay member awwan).
Good luck with whatever adaptor you get and/or in making your own!
Steve
The responses you've received since reawakening this thread make sense and reveal a probable factor not previously discussed in this thread, nor that I was made aware of back then in other threads/discussions when I was geting my head around impedance and impedance adaptors and evaluating for myself whether to aquire one for my portable rig (the only clue I was given was that adding impedance could help add bass, though I didn't connect this to resistor adaptors altering the FR of DAPs/hps/rigs, but rather with the physics of the added impedance to electronic circuit helping the relatively low quality and/or low power amp of the concerned DAP to better drive the phones in question, thus removing any roll-offs in the FR caused my previous poorer driving of headphones without the added impedance present, the bass region, in my experience, often being the one to suffer roll-off in these circumstances; I can see how both of these effects can apply/affect the output FR independently now, however, when using an impedance adaptor in a portable rig, how they are both relevant). So, up until now, that adding resistor adaptors to portable rigs can change the FR of the phones used in the rig- this only the phones ie can the FR/sonic signature of the DAP and/or the synergy between the DAP and the hps not be altered?; understand that, if FR/sonic character of hps is changed, their synergy with DAP would be different anyway but can the addition of an impedance adaptor not independently affect the sound of the DAP before syngery or does it affect the synergy ie when it has an effect on FR of sound, the DAP and hps sound has already synergised?- had not been something I'd been formally aware of, though and despite never getting round yet toconducting my own hands on evaluations, was something I suspected from having used resitor adaptors in my portable rigs, fundamentally to eliminate (the possibility) of driver hiss, since shortly after the original time period of this thread.
To answer your PM to me active, I originally used an 120 Ohm Oehlbach plug-type attenuator, purchased from another member here at Head-fi about 13 months or so ago. I found that fantastic; it eliminated hiss, I could still get impressive volume levels- more than I needed- out of my Sony A-829, it looked aethetically sharp and it was practical for portability, being physically small and compact, slotting into my rig extermely neatly. The only problem I've had with this adaptor is when, some time later (early 09), I bought an ipod classic 6.5G as, using this adaptor with this DAP often- dependent on music/recording- meant, relative to the DAP in question, the volume levelshad to b right at the upper end with little in abeyance for higher volumes. I put this down to the 120 Ohms of resistance and eventually bought a 75 Ohm varietal, still plug-type; despite the common criticism/disuading factor for many of using this type of adaptor causing too much stress on the hp jack of audio device it's being used in conjunction with, I had no experience of this drawback and couldn't see it as having much relevance to my useage habits; since, this adaptor snapped when I was in Spain recently for Benicasim festival ie releatively rough living, so, certainly in such conditions were one is naturally less careful and/or clean living, I can see how this drawback can come into play. I'm planning on aquiring anotherone of these asap (got from recommended ebay member awwan).
Good luck with whatever adaptor you get and/or in making your own!
Steve
The picture got clearer for me now.
qusp
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Quote:
actually yes it is a fact mate, the only thing unpredictable about it is in relation to the components in the crossover in question, the drivers and the amount of resistance used; as well as the stock output impedence of the dap/amp used. so with all the information it is I suppose predictable, but that information regarding the spec of resistors, drivers and caps used in the XO of particular IEMs, is not made widely available by manufacturers.
and yeah punnisher is correct. it will effect the FR of your single driver sleeks as well.
Quote:
good idea, the facts will become clearer
that way (subjectively of course)
| Originally Posted by active /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe nobody mentioned that, because probability of umpredictable effects to happen isn't a fact by itself yet, especially when SA6 IEMs have single drivers. No offence
|
actually yes it is a fact mate, the only thing unpredictable about it is in relation to the components in the crossover in question, the drivers and the amount of resistance used; as well as the stock output impedence of the dap/amp used. so with all the information it is I suppose predictable, but that information regarding the spec of resistors, drivers and caps used in the XO of particular IEMs, is not made widely available by manufacturers.
and yeah punnisher is correct. it will effect the FR of your single driver sleeks as well.
Quote:
| Good point. I'm happy to use SA6's with portable DAP's, but there are times when i need to plug them in a PC or notebook, which hiss way too noticeably. Hmm, if same adapter would have different effects with different DAPs, I'll better make my own resistor adapter and experiment with it's resistance. Right. |
good idea, the facts will become clearer
BloodSugar00
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Quote:
Cool, have fun
.
| Originally Posted by active /img/forum/go_quote.gif The picture got clearer for me now. |
Cool, have fun
Quote:
Made an adapter and tested with resistance ranging from 33Ω to 180Ω.
Yes, it diminished the hiss and electronical interference noise, BUT the more resistance I added, the more edgy and hard the sound became. Mids and lows weakened, highlighting hights.
Came to the same conclusion: a resistor adapter would help to brighten the sound, when it's too bassy, but in my case of SA6's it had a negative effect.
An external sound card or USB DAC would be a better solution for diminishing a hiss from a computer.
Wonder, if a stereo potentiometer would have the same effect. Apparently, yes.
| Originally Posted by Punnisher /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd like to add that adding impedance does indeed change the frequency response of any earphone. To what degree may vary depending on the earphone and the value of the resistor. For example my UE sf3 had an upward shift in frequency response after I added between 50-90 ohms. This was actually a positive change because the sound was very dull, veiled, boomy and dark. |
Made an adapter and tested with resistance ranging from 33Ω to 180Ω.
Yes, it diminished the hiss and electronical interference noise, BUT the more resistance I added, the more edgy and hard the sound became. Mids and lows weakened, highlighting hights.
Came to the same conclusion: a resistor adapter would help to brighten the sound, when it's too bassy, but in my case of SA6's it had a negative effect.
An external sound card or USB DAC would be a better solution for diminishing a hiss from a computer.
Wonder, if a stereo potentiometer would have the same effect. Apparently, yes.
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