Why your awesome IEMs sound bad from your iPod and what YOU can do about it!

[IPodPJ]

Ok. Right. Linux made something? Linux is a company? I didn't know that. I was under the impression that Linux was, in fact, the basis for many many many operating systems, but was itself just a kernel. I'm sure the OSS community would love to hear that Linux is now making things!
QUOTE]

Ok, well again, you know something that I don't. All I simply stated though was that Linux made an iPod OS. I work way to many hours a day to possibly research everything. Anyway, this is what I was referring to:

http://www.ipodlinux.org/Main_Page


PJ

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7 Not trying to disrespect you at all. Just being a little sarcastic. I started trolling these forums about a year and a half ago. It's both a blessing and a curse. If you are mainly interested in getting the most out of your Ipod, you can consider using the a line-out dock with an amp or if you have a 4th generation model, you may want to consider this:http://www.redwineaudio.com/iMod.html They mod the headphone out into a really high quality line out, so no need for the dock, which adds a little too much bulkiness IMO. You have to use a headphone amp, but with lossless files it's truly the best sound quality available from an Ipod. Portable headphone amps are pretty compact,too and not as much a pain to lug around as I think you believe. Welcome to the forum, and sorry about your wallet! You might not realize it, but you may have just opened a big can of worms for yourself.

Nope. As said, I have the 5th gen 30gb Video iPod. I have a hard shell case on it, and I have the dock, but it doesn't rest well in the dock (very flimsy) since with the case on, none of the plastic inserts allow it to fit, and I refuse to remove the case but once in a blue moon to wipe it down for dust because the finish is so fragile and scratches with the slightest touch. Since purchasing a 23" Apple Cinema HD Display for work, it came with a special cloth coated with some weird material to clean the screen. I cut it in half and it is the only cloth that seems to be okay to dust off the black iPod with. It is not a standard microfiber cloth, as those tend to scratch too. If all else fails and your 5th gen ipod is scratched, Brasso works. I didnt believe it until I read all about it, then told a friend to do it. Well he did it, and his iPod looks as good as new.

And I hope you're wrong about my wallet. I used to audition elecrostatic headphones back in the day. They didn't impress me. In fact, the only ones that did were the Sony CD3000 and CD5000 (identical except for more oxygen free cable and padding on earcups). I think I spent $400 or $500 on the CD3000. What a difference the 50mm drivers made. I know, most people think, "you think Sony is good?" Well, these ones were... and in my opinion were the best ones Sony ever made and I wish my friend hadn't blown them out after owning them for 4 years without a problem.

So I think with the Super.Fi 5, Triple Fi 10, perhaps an 80 gig ipod, and maybe a headphone amp and ipod line-out cable, I'll be set. Please tell me that's enough????

When I'm at home listening to my iPod, I leave it plugged in to the wall. It seems to give it about 5 - 7% more oomph! How can I do that if I have a line out cable connected to a headphone amp when that same cable is used for the charger?

Thanks.

PJ

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

As mentioned previously, I use Rockbox, FLAC and UE10's with the headphone output on my Ipod Video 60gb.

I have tested using a Porta Corda, with a 20volt power supply, and also using a battery. Currently I cannot discern any significant quality improvement over the unamped output. The volume setting on the Ipod is low because of the efficiency of the UE's, so that's probably the reason. However, I will be carrying out more tests when I can get hold of a better mains power supply. The one I used was cobbled together from a laptop supply so it was pretty crap.

With regard to equalization, Rockbox has hardware equalization which under reasonable use will not distort. In addition, the software EQ does not distort either, the way the standard Apple does, but apparently can cause the odd playback glitch with the current Rockbox builds.

I am currently using Senab's latest Rockbox build, which seems very stable.

Thanks to Senab and the guys at Rockbox.

Regards

John

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves Hi, As mentioned previously, I use Rockbox, FLAC and UE10's with the headphone output on my Ipod Video 60gb. I have tested using a Porta Corda, with a 20volt power supply, and also using a battery. Currently I cannot discern any significant quality improvement over the unamped output. The volume setting on the Ipod is low because of the efficiency of the UE's, so that's probably the reason. However, I will be carrying out more tests when I can get hold of a better mains power supply. The one I used was cobbled together from a laptop supply so it was pretty crap. With regard to equalization, Rockbox has hardware equalization which under reasonable use will not distort. In addition, the software EQ does not distort either, the way the standard Apple does, but apparently can cause the odd playback glitch with the current Rockbox builds. I am currently using Senab's latest Rockbox build, which seems very stable. Thanks to Senab and the guys at Rockbox. Regards John

John,

Well everyone keeps mentioning Rockbox so it must be good, but here's my problem: IS IT AVAILABLE FOR MAC???

Thanks,
PJ

 

[wax4213]

See, you're doing better already

Rockbox requires that the iPod be formatted with FAT, not HFS (is there a + on the end of that? I can't remember), but it doesn't matter what format your computer is. Rockbox works best with a filetree structure, instead of using the ID3 tags to organize the music. It can do either, but at the moment, it's more convenient to use filetree structure than the Tagcache option, which groups songs by artist, name, etc, regardless of the file name or folder structure. www.rockbox.org for more information.

You can find the Audiolineout cables at www.audiolineout.com. Surprising, eh?

And I know about iPod Linux. Just trying to correct a little bit of information. I'm no Linux guru either.

I do undertand about working too many hours a day to research everything, but seriously, some of these things are really easy to find, not to mention the fact that you're posting things at 1:00 AM, PST, so if you're in the states, it's at least that time if not later.

 

[plainsong]

With all the snarking going back and forth, I couldn't tell if this has really been answered, but yeah, try turning off the EQ (even without an amp, this should still be a plus!) would help. The lineout is found at the bottom of the ipod, the port. Any number of options can plug in there to give you your line out. For instance the ipod dock, which wouldn't be practical for portable use, the turbodock II (made by headfier turbo), the Pocketdock (doesn't work with a lot of ipod cases), the sik din or sik ram din, and any number of hardwired dock-to-cable options that searching will turn up with.

Plug one of those into an amp, and here great quality can be found at most price ranges. Search portable amps for more info. For instance, perhaps a go-vibe 5 would be a good starting place to search.

And as for the whole pc-mac p!ssing contest, I'll rephrase it correctly and say there are plenty of Linux distros that support Mac. I'll also rephrase and say that OsX is a windows manager running on top of BSD. I prefer this setup myself, so preaching to the choir here, but it's a similar, if more stable setup to Windows XP.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wax4213 See, you're doing better already Rockbox requires that the iPod be formatted with FAT, not HFS (is there a + on the end of that? I can't remember), but it doesn't matter what format your computer is. Rockbox works best with a filetree structure, instead of using the ID3 tags to organize the music. It can do either, but at the moment, it's more convenient to use filetree structure than the Tagcache option, which groups songs by artist, name, etc, regardless of the file name or folder structure. www.rockbox.org for more information. You can find the Audiolineout cables at www.audiolineout.com. Surprising, eh? And I know about iPod Linux. Just trying to correct a little bit of information. I'm no Linux guru either. I do undertand about working too many hours a day to research everything, but seriously, some of these things are really easy to find, not to mention the fact that you're posting things at 1:00 AM, PST, so if you're in the states, it's at least that time if not later.

Rockbox.org doesn't work.... no website found.
Also, for the 5th time, is it available for Mac??
I refuse to format my iPod for FAT (windows format)...
Had way too many errors moving files from iTunes back and forth from all my Macs.... iTunes on Mac works much better, I hate to say, and has a wealth of options/user easability that they would like to make you believe are available on PC, but that just isn't so.

I will check out the audio cable site.
Now how bout a portable amp site???

Thanks.
I'm going to bed. Thoroughly exhausted.

PJ

 

[jdimitri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ And based on some reviews that I read, everything is perfect (from their perspectives) in every respect (tonal balance, dynamics, roll off, etc) about the Triple.Fi's, EXCEPT THE FREAKING SOUND STAGING!!! Why can't UE get that part right? PJ

I don't think real soundstaging exists in headphones.. How is it possible? the drivers are next to your ears
I do hear it though, i think it's all in our heads

BTW, your post short and improved:

If you want to use eq on your ipod, mp3gain your files first.. oh and read the readme for instructions
Voila

2 of the longest post i've ever seen (especially the second one).. and there's really not that much to it.. how do you find the time?

 

[plainsong]

You don't need to go through rockboxing your ipod if you don't want to. Simply using Apple Lossless, turning off the eq, and using an amp through the lineout will help immensely. Anything past that is just down to how far you want to go or what you prefer.

A good place to search about interconnects (what these cables are called) would be in the cables subforum here at head-fi. Likewise there's an amps forum, and even a portables forum. My line out is a solution made by Audiolineout (head-fi sponsor at the very top of the page), but there are plenty others, such as Headfier Rnb180's RnbAudio, or Moon Audio (also sponsors at the top of the page). Just lurking in the cables forum can find some of these, and what people think about them.

As for the amps forum, on the first page, as of this posting, there is at least one thread about iems and portable amps.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong You don't need to go through rockboxing your ipod if you don't want to. Simply using Apple Lossless, turning off the eq, and using an amp through the lineout will help immensely. Anything past that is just down to how far you want to go or what you prefer. A good place to search about interconnects (what these cables are called) would be in the cables subforum here at head-fi. Likewise there's an amps forum, and even a portables forum. My line out is a solution made by Audiolineout (head-fi sponsor at the very top of the page), but there are plenty others, such as Headfier Rnb180's RnbAudio, or Moon Audio (also sponsors at the top of the page). Just lurking in the cables forum can find some of these, and what people think about them. As for the amps forum, on the first page, as of this posting, there is at least one thread about iems and portable amps.

Good recommendations. Is Myo still around though? His Mall-Fi post disappeared a while ago. He makes excellent cables and I would definitely recommend him!

 

[lexnasa]

ipodPJ, welcome to head-fi!

It seems your long posts have got some people worked up. This is because often new members post questions or suggestions that have already come up dozens of times in previous posts, and people go "jeez, not again! Didn't this guy do a search?"

Head-fi is actually a pretty friendly place, probably one of the friendliest forums on the net.

www.rockbox.org definitely exists, but the site appears to be down temporarily. They have suffered quite a bit of vandalism recently, and it could be they've shut down the site to repair the damage (as an open source project, anyone can contribute which includes malicious changes to the online documentation). I'd suggest you try again in a day or so.

Rockbox is software for iPod (and many other portable audio players), not Mac or PC, so it doesn't matter what computer you have, or what OS you are running (unless it's something really odd).

Custom audiophile line out cables are easily available for the iPod, and you can also take a look at the Amplification/Portable Audio forums because you'll need to buy a portable amp if you're using line out.

I'd agree that you could start with Apple Lossless on your iPod first, and then move to Rockbox if you really like the sound quality improvements.

IMHO Rockbox sounds better than standard iPod firmware, but this has been debated a lot and people have different opinions.

Also FLAC or WavPack are better supported than Apple Lossless in Rockbox, so if you go the Rockbox route, it may be advisable to convert your music to either format using Foobar 2000 which is powerful but can be a little complex, or dbPoweramp which is more straightforward.

The iPod can sound excellent, but personally I wouldn't use the onboard EQ, or reduce the volume of your music files. If you want more bass, use a portable amp with a decent bass boost, like a Xin Supermacro/Supermini or a Larocco PRII if you want to spend more.

I'd also agree with previous posts that iPods don't distort with EQ off, either using the standard iPod firmware or with Rockbox, unless the music file has been badly recorded, badly mastered or post-processed in some way.

 

[IPodPJ]

Thank you for your kind words...

However, a few things you mentioned that I have said several times already.

1) I do convert everything to Apple Lossless
2) I want the most portable setup possible, but might be willing to try
a headphone amp if the sound quality would be THAT much better, and
by that much, to me I mean at least a 25% - 30% overall performance
increase.
3) Regarding the line-out bit, when at home, I listen to my iPod plugged in to
the charger because it seems to give it about a 5 -7% bit more "oomph"
to it, clarity wise and bass wise -- so how could I have the line out
cable connected to a headphone amp if I'm using that output to plug it in
to my charger? Maybe there is some kind of cable that will split the signal
into audio RCA left and right outputs, and a USB cable to plug into the
iPod charger? I looked online for one for awhile and didn't see one. If
you know of any, please advise.
4) With the iPod internal crappy 30mw amp, I find very little bass (for my
taste) with the EQ either on Off, or Flat (seems to be just two settings
that are identical with different names). Sometimes, just the bass boost
EQ is enough, and other times I prefer the Rock EQ setting which adds a
little more presence to the highs as well as the bass. (Acoustic setting
seems to pump up the mids way too much, along with everything else,
and the Electronic setting comes in handy for electronic music sometimes,
but really cuts down frequencies in the vocal ranges). WHY CAN'T THEY
JUST LET US TRANSFER OUR OWN CUSTOM EQ SETTINGS FROM I-TUNES
TO OUR IPODS???? AND WHY CAN'T THEY HAVE A BALANCE CONTROL
SETTING???
5) Again, my PC is ancient and won't run much of anything. I only use
Foobar (which is a great little program) to convert my OGG and FLAC
files that I download from Allofmp3.com into WAV files. If you want to
recommend programs for me other than the one I use called "Audacity",
make sure it will run on a Mac. I think you guys should give "Audacity"
a try before knocking it so much. It does a lot more than you think,
and it's free (only for Mac, though). Another great little free program
for Mac is called "Senuti" (itunes spelled backwards). It copies all of your
files off of your ipod, tags, album covers, everything.... and puts them on
your hard drive. There are several programs like that for PC, but they do
charge you like $20 for them, and from my personal experience using
them, don't work nearly as well as "Senuti" does (again, for Mac only).

Regarding the new Triple.Fi's, do you think they will require more power to drive them than the dual driver Super.Fi 5s, or do you think there are ample
resistors in the Super.Fi 5s that cut down the power anyway, and the Triple.Fi's will just cut down a little less power perhaps??

Thanks..

PJ
A happy soon to be owner of #2/180 limited edition Triple.Fi's.

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

2) I want the most portable setup possible, but might be willing to try a headphone amp if the sound quality would be THAT much better, and by that much, to me I mean at least a 25% - 30% overall performance increase.

The answer to this isn't static. It depends on which amp and which headphones. In the case of the triple-fi's, not many people know yet. There's no magic answer but to say that with various setups benefit greatly. What greatly means to you and what it means to me will just about always differ. Again, no magic answer, it doesn't work like that.

Quote:

3) Regarding the line-out bit, when at home, I listen to my iPod plugged in to the charger because it seems to give it about a 5 -7% bit more "oomph" to it, clarity wise and bass wise -- so how could I have the line out cable connected to a headphone amp if I'm using that output to plug it in to my charger? Maybe there is some kind of cable that will split the signal into audio RCA left and right outputs, and a USB cable to plug into the iPod charger? I looked online for one for awhile and didn't see one. If you know of any, please advise.

Ok, now you're just being difficult. If you'd rather have the points of a percent benefit of power, versus the full benefit of an amp, then hey, that's your choice.

Quote:

4) With the iPod internal crappy 30mw amp, I find very little bass (for my taste) with the EQ either on Off, or Flat (seems to be just two settings that are identical with different names). Sometimes, just the bass boost EQ is enough, and other times I prefer the Rock EQ setting which adds a little more presence to the highs as well as the bass. (Acoustic setting seems to pump up the mids way too much, along with everything else, and the Electronic setting comes in handy for electronic music sometimes, but really cuts down frequencies in the vocal ranges). WHY CAN'T THEY JUST LET US TRANSFER OUR OWN CUSTOM EQ SETTINGS FROM I-TUNES TO OUR IPODS???? AND WHY CAN'T THEY HAVE A BALANCE CONTROL SETTING???

This depends on the setup. Some headphones are just not going to have enough of this that or the other with a given source. You can add the distortion of you prefer, but it's your preference. Of course it would be nice to have the user adjustable EQ, but with the right setup for your ears, you won't need it, IMO.

Quote:

5) Again, my PC is ancient and won't run much of anything. I only use Foobar (which is a great little program) to convert my OGG and FLAC files that I download from Allofmp3.com into WAV files. If you want to recommend programs for me other than the one I use called "Audacity", make sure it will run on a Mac. I think you guys should give "Audacity" a try before knocking it so much. It does a lot more than you think, and it's free (only for Mac, though). Another great little free program for Mac is called "Senuti" (itunes spelled backwards). It copies all of your files off of your ipod, tags, album covers, everything.... and puts them on your hard drive. There are several programs like that for PC, but they do charge you like $20 for them, and from my personal experience using them, don't work nearly as well as "Senuti" does (again, for Mac only).

No one's knocking Audacity. I'm a mac user myself and what it does, it does well. You're just using defeating yourself with how you're using it for this case, that's what we're knocking.

All-in-all, what I get from this is, that you have this setup, and you have some new iems on the way, and you're making your music sound worse, but it's like a lesser of evils kind of thing as far as you're concerned. So you ask if there's anything to be done about it, and people answer yes, but then what you really seem to mean is "I don't want to mess with my current setup. Top that!!" - and of course audio doesn't work that way at all. All we can do is say that yes, there are some options.

Hopefully the triple fi will have enough teh bass to suit your needs.

 

[lexnasa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ Thank you for your kind words... However, a few things you mentioned that I have said several times already. 1) I do convert everything to Apple Lossless

All I'm saying is that Apple Lossless isn't the most portable format. If you use WavPack or FLAC you can play your music on any Rockbox-capable music player.

 

[sonicm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ 4) With the iPod internal crappy 30mw amp, I find very little bass (for my taste) with the EQ either on Off, or Flat (seems to be just two settings that are identical with different names). Sometimes, just the bass boost EQ is enough, and other times I prefer the Rock EQ setting which adds a little more presence to the highs as well as the bass. (Acoustic setting seems to pump up the mids way too much, along with everything else, and the Electronic setting comes in handy for electronic music sometimes, but really cuts down frequencies in the vocal ranges). WHY CAN'T THEY JUST LET US TRANSFER OUR OWN CUSTOM EQ SETTINGS FROM I-TUNES TO OUR IPODS???? AND WHY CAN'T THEY HAVE A BALANCE CONTROL SETTING???

Just so you know, if you have a 5g ipod, it supposedly has a really good eq that works best with rockbox, if you do a search in the portable audio forums, you should hear some good things about them. Also, regarding you having trouble moving files, rockbox lets you drag and drop files onto the player, so I don't think you'll have much trouble there(unless its with something else)
..yeah..I hope that came out right, excuse me if thats messy, i'm very tired...