Why your awesome IEMs sound bad from your iPod and what YOU can do about it!

[cerbie]

Or, if you can drop $400 on canalphones, you could spend $80-$200 for a line-out connector and amp, rather than butchering files. In fact, I can think of two amps off the top of my head that are smaller than a HDD iPod, and one similar to the Nano.

Also, who has said any decent IEMs aren't much better than the iBuds? I sure haven't heard or read this anywhere, and I know the Nano actually isn't bad as a source for Shure E3c.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio I have to disagree with this. There's no reason to kill your audio quality on the file level to get what you want on the output. The problems with my iPod's line out are the general grainy - harsh nature of the sound... that isn't the file and it isn't distortion. That's the internal amp, and you need to bypass it.

By line-out do you mean the headphone out? The line-out bypasses the internal amp.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder By line-out do you mean the headphone out? The line-out bypasses the internal amp.

Oop, yep, I meant headphone out. The line out is much more acceptable with a nice little amp of some kind.

 

[IPodPJ]

Thank you all very much for responding, and I appreciate all the feedback and help.

I will try to respond to all the responses made to me:

First of all, I don't use any of the MP3 gain or AAC gain programs because, like I mentioned, I rip all my CDs in lossless format. I want to keep the integrity of the source sound.

Yes, of course there is also some inherant audio nuances that will be lost when dropping by 2db but I used a handy little conversion program (I will have to find it and post the link for you guys/gals) and I still get approximately 97.5% of the original volume (2.5% loss). However, after these conversions are done, you can turn your iPod volume as high as you want to the point that your ears don't bleed and it still sounds great, and I can hear every single thing I had heard before. Since it is a digital file, the 2.5% sound reduction applies to the overall song... so even if there is a very very quiet cymbal crash for example, it is only being made quieter by 2.5%, so in essence, you really aren't losing anything except increasing your Signal-to-Noise ratio by a tad.

The way the program works, and what may be confusing because of the terminology they use in the programming, is that you are really just reducing the percentage of volume, but you need to enter it in a decibel equivalent, and I found out that a 3% reduction would be about a 2.1db reduction (so I went with an even -2db figure and it works great for me -- 2.5% reduction approximately. Since it is applying it to the whole waveform overall (And please correct me if I'm wrong here), it won't take a very quiet sound at lets say 20db, and lower that by another 2db and give you an 18db sound. It will lower it by 2.5% and make that original 20db sound become 19.5db. It works very much in the same way as a graphic equalizer.... frequencies crossover eachother so there is no way to cut off an entire section completely (again, to the best of my knowledge which may be seriously flawed, but I am here hoping to learn as much as I share and can teach in certain areas

).

Maybe there was some misunderstood confusion. I have had this same problem with my Shure e2c's as well. When I said distortion, I am referring to the bass parts of the music that distorts. I know it isn't my iPod (or perhaps it could be due to the fact that...) because in the past year, this is my 3rd iPod. Less than 2 weeks after I purchased the first one, I realized the battery was taking virtually NO charge. It would take about 5 hours to charge the iPod a whole 10%. So, I did what any normal person would do who spent $300 on a product that doesn't work properly and returned it.

Luckily I bought it at the Apple store instead of using my Xmas bonus -- $300 in Best Buy gift certificates (that's one hell of a nice christmas bonus for someone who personally makes my boss about $1.3 million a year in earnings (his total yearly gross is around $6 million and it's a small sized copy and print shop), but I won't get started on that or his brazen cocaine use or his greedy nature... but hey, I have top notch Mac equipment at work... whoopee... nope nope I won't take any Valium to calm the stress,

easy now Phil, you can do it -- breathe in, breathe out... ahhh.... nope, still stressed

). Sorry for that.

Since it was less than 2 weeks from the date of purchase, Apple just swapped it for a brand new boxed item (and they will ONLY do that if it is within 14 days from the date of purchase). I have had horrible luck (and so has my ex-girlfriend) in every regard at Best Buy.

Then, about 6 months go by and my iPod (despite trying to restore it, format it, run Mac Disk Utility on it, etc.) decides it no longer wishes to be a 30 gig hard drive and transforms itself into a 17 gig -- and a 17 gig that deletes songs when it feels like it, restarts the iPod in between songs, yadda yadda, etc... This started happening when I began adding more songs past the 600MB mark (on my iPod Video 30 gig 5th generation).

So now I am on my 3rd iPod, and it seems to be working fine so far. A FAIR WARNING FOR EVERY HARD DRIVE BASED IPOD USER: When your iPod starts getting full, make sure you do not fill up the last 3-4% of your drive with data. 2% of a 30GB hard drive is 600MB, which is where I had the problem. I know quite a bit about hardware myself (been using computers since I was 5 yrs. old [I'm 27 now], back in the days of the Commodore 64, and can build them now from almost scratch) but I did ask a high level Apple tech support rep (high level Apple tech support rep - that's a laughable joke all by itself) for confirmation and they recommend, at least with their computers, that you leave 10% of your hard drive free of space for optimum performance. An iPod, is indeed a computer, too, just one that performs a smaller and different set of tasks. I am not sure how this would apply to FLASH memory, as in the Nanos, but you could always call up and ask. The Nanos would serve no purpose to me unless they came out with FLASH memory of at least 30 gig or greater (my 30 gig has no space left to put new music, and I like carrying my entire library around with me at all times).

So I guess after my Triple.Fi purchase it's on to the iPod 80gig, and then maybe that JVC surround for headphone thingy (has anyone tried it? If so how is it? Does it increase the staging or spacial perception without too much added noise or other garbage?)

So, yes... in conclusion my iPod seems to work just fine.... for the moment. The reason I noticed this bass distortion to begin with was that when I listened to any older album originally recorded in analog then transferred to CD (such as TOTO IV, or STEELY DAN's box set: Citizen), there was no distortion. But when I played any other kind of music genre (bands included: Porcupine Tree, Chroma Key, Zero 7, Bela Fleck & The Flecktones, Jamiroquai, Aerosmith, even Al Jarreau and Andreas Vollenweider, O.S.I., Dave Matthews Band, Concrete Blonde, Dire Straits, Eric Johnson, Mark Knopfler, Ozric Tentacles, Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, The Polyphonic Spree..... just to name a few

I get bass distortion. My original pair (before the clear ones cracked) also had some minor stray armature humming that you could hear at times but that is non-existant with my new clear Super.Fi 5 pros (which sound better than my last pair did, both right out of the box).

Ok, what line out are we talking about? The only line out I know about on my iPod video is the headphone out, which certainly includes the amp section output. How can you bypass that without cracking your iPod case open and doing some "warranty voiding" re-wiring?

And if you can indeed bypass it, again back to my point of lugging something extra around like a headphone amp... Trying to keep these products smaller are certainly a convenience when you have to transport them places with you, and in my case, riding a bus. I would not want 5 pieces of equipment hooked up for a 30 minute ride. For you home headphone enthusiasts, I'm not even in the same league as you nor am I trying to compete, but I did concede that any good home amplifier or headphone amplifier will gladly take a peak signal and play it flawlessly with the least amount of Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) possible. Of course by lowering the initial song by 2.5% volume, you will gain noise-to-signal. I have not noticed that much noise being gained, and while the iPod amps are weak, they can perform clean when they want to. I can use a program called AudioCatalyst (alas, this is a PC program) to convert to MP3s or WAVs but also what it does for me is show a bunch of red volume level bars. Songs taken from CDs always tend to reach the peak area (above 80-90%) and often go to 100% You can even see this by zooming in on your waveform all the way at + and - 1 kHz and noticing that your waveform is right there at the top. If you analyzed my converted songs in AudioCatalyst, you would see that the red bars don't peak past 98%, and I think therein lies the problem with the iPod amp. The songs that naturally go all the way to 100% are the ones that present the bass distortion when using iPod's built in EQ. The iPod amp just doesn't seem to be able to process the music normally at full peak level with EQ, and in my opinion, the music sounds totally lacking without the EQ on my Super.Fi 5 pros. Maybe a pair of Super.Fi 5EB are in order for me? Would they be good for me, you think? Anyway, I have a pair of Triple.Fi 10 Pro coming soon, and I hope they will be fantastic. Certain songs require equalizing anyway, all songs are not mastered perfectly, and for that equalizing to lend itself to sound that won't distort bass, the iPod amp needs to be better, or I see my solution as the only viable one (for me anyway). Maybe I won't need to use the EQ with the Triple.Fi - that is what I am hoping, anyway..... that I can leave the EQ flat, and with that, comes...................

[size=small]THE REVELATION:[/size]
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... I just realized something.... This should have struck me sooner. Yes Yes Yes, when you leave your EQ setting as NONE or FLAT on your ipod, even with a peak recording, you guys are correct, it will not distort. But I like to get a good amount of bass and evenly-rounded tonal balance for my taste/ears (and the Rock and Electronic presets come closest to this; until they one day allow us to make our own). I just assumed (and in this case it only makes the ass out of me) that most people wouldn't want to hear their supposedly brilliant $200 - $250 IEMs sounding flat -- but maybe flat is what you are looking for, especially in Classical Music recordings that are microphoned and mastered brilliantly.... (check out Erich Kunzel and The Cincinatti Pops Orchestra... they are great and play music that you would find from the Cantina Band on Starwars, or all of the Star Trek themes, or even music from movies like Cocoon. One of his albums, which I believe is called The Great Fantasy Adventure Album that contains a warning on the CD that frequencies on the disc extend all the way down to either 15 or 10 Hz. Someone stole my original copy so I'm not sure which of the two it is. The album also has an amazing, thunderous boom and roar of a T-Rex.) So my apologies to ALL for the miscommunication there... hey, I'm new.. I'm learning.. and that's progress! YAY!

Hey, don't look at me

like that!!!

[size=small]Next:[/size]
Congratulations xcodeguy to you for getting in at number one position. I was really beginning to wonder how someone could get in any earlier than 12:00 a.m. + 5 seconds (12:00:05).... Actually, I pressed send at 12:00:01:47 atomic time, PST. Thank you for setting my mind at ease, as that e-mail speed issue was not the first-place case. "The First" on your roadie case is rather appropriate. Do you know when we will be getting our little blue beauties?

I went to Amazon.com last night and zoomed in to the max amount but it only showed be bits and pieces of the headphones at that size, so I did about 70 local screen area snapshots of the different parts of the headphones and pieced them together very meticulously in Adobe Photoshop with the layers at lowered opacity values, and then pieced them together bit by bit. It all took several hours, but now I have a very high-res 300 d.p.i. (printing press quality) file at approximately 9" x 10" of the Triple.Fi 10 pro. 150-200 d.p.i. (dots per inch) is perfect for ink-jet printers, so you could print larger sizes. If anyone would like it, I would be more than happy to send it to you: just provide me with your e-mail address. I can also make you large format posters (18" x 24", 24" x 36", etc. - specify indoor [dye inks] or outdoor weatherproof and sun exposure use [UV inks] please.

[size=medium]AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST:[/size]
[size=small]Bomb Inside.... Please Do Not Touch![/size]
Yes, I thought it would be funny and hope that people do not touch them. I don't travel much, so that is not a big worry of mine and if I do, I'll clearly let them know that if I was a bomb-maker, would I really be so stupid as to advertise to you, the baggage checker, a.k.a.: the people-sniffing, people-feeling, people-questioning, people-holding, people-in-your-pockets, people-in-your-suitcase, people-who-rip-the-pacemaker-from-your-chest-because-they-initially-didn't-believe-you-and-now-you've-proven-it-to-them-just-so-they-could-shut-the-machine-up, and people-with-gloves-that-go-'a-rectally-huntin'-fo-wabbits?

And to the one of you who are concerned or worried, no, each roadie case is customized for YOU and you only! I will probably be the only one with that kind of phrase on my 1/180.

Well, thanks again for all your time, for accepting my apologies if you prefer FLAT music. But by the way, if an album is mastered perfectly, and Madonna is a good example of an artist who does this (despite the fact that I don't care for her music), the only way one SHOULD listen to that kind of album is FLAT (with good speakers and amplifiers, of course). The problem is that many albums today are mastered poorly, with many "pressings" being made in in-home studios by musicians/producers/do-it-yourselfers who are just barely learning how to use the software themselves. A lot of heavy black Swedish and Nordic metal bands (I only know of them through association, not because I have a taste for their music) prefer to use rack-mounted gear still. I'm sure many musicians prefer this style. Fortunately, there are virtually no limits in the computer audio editing and mastering world, and software modules for almost every rack-mount module ever made, including amplifiers. It's time to expand your horizons, old dudes!


peace/love/light

[size=medium]PJ[/size]

 

[rincewind]

...... So much text..... So little info.

1) This idea has been known about for a long time. If you view the modifications ReplayGain wants to make to files, you'll see that an adjustment of -10dB is very much the typical requirement. -2dB won't do a whole lot. Yes, many people view this as massacring the files and losing info. As I used to think. Try it for yourself - particularly on poorly mastered (not poorly recorded) music, and you'll notice less or no distortion in some parts where their used to be prior to using a negative gain. I tried it on a variety of music, tested on music I know very well, and added the gain info to everything soon after. I've since listened to non-gained music on my same audio setup (and other setups) and hear the same "roughness" I was hearing before using ReplayGain (regardless of source/setup, and using original media). Yes, it's modifying the original data. To my ears (and that's all that should matter to anyone really) it sounds better. It's a free thing to do, and can't hurt the original data (assuming u use replaygain), so I think everyone should at least try it out and see what they think. If someone is so snobby that they won't even try it, this forum is the wrong place for them, and they should go buy one of the many stereo magazines out there

2) The explanation of the theory is all here: http://www.replaygain.org/

3) Congrats on the good earphones, now get yourself an amp (if you have an amp already, I don't know about it, cos I didn't bother reading you're whole post).

4) Man, are you ever adjusting the album gains in a round-about way lol. In foobar it takes 2 clicks and 15 seconds.

 

[Mercuttio]

Dear sweet sassy Jesus, you were using EQ!? And complaining about distortion!? You were correcting innocent music files to make them not distort on the iPod's HORRIBLE EQ!? You're writing a guide like this, and you don't even know about the line out on your iPod?

I'm pretty sure this qualifies a hate crime. It's like Toto pulled back the curtain and there wasn't anyone there at all.

And please, more info, less text. Your paragraphs are hollow.

 

[IPodPJ]

Ricewind,

I've said that I am using a MAC for my audio processing. I find Macs are much better for that sort of stuff, and since my PC is 9 years old, I won't even attempt it.

I use foobar on my PC to convert OGG or FLAC files I download from allofmp3.com aka alltunes.com to WAV files, then network them to my Mac. That's about all I can do with my PC. It crashes every 30 minutes or so - I run XP Pro.

There is a reason the majority of the industry uses Macs for audio and video editing -- they are just better at it... Macs run on a UNIX based operating system, not some visual garbage (Windows) that still after all these years since the 8086 processor runs as a shell from DOS. You can blame that on the Intel/Microsoft money-grubbing co-op. Yes, Microsoft gives plenty of money to philanthropy, but their operating system is still a piece of garbage in my opinion. If you're using an iPod, made by Apple, you obviously like the interface of the device. For this very reason, people use Macs -- the interface is cleaner and the core operating system runs more efficiently. I could go into a number of reasons why Macs are better for most anything except web browsing, but that would just be more "verbal diarhea" that you would most likely skip over anyway.

My suggestions on how to make an iPod were merely that -- suggestions.
You certainly don't have to try them. But I guarantee you that they work very well when all you want to take with you is your iPod and your IEMs, and no other piece of equipment.

PJ

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio Dear sweet sassy Jesus, you were using EQ!? And complaining about distortion!? You were correcting innocent music files to make them not distort on the iPod's HORRIBLE EQ!? You're writing a guide like this, and you don't even know about the line out on your iPod? I'm pretty sure this qualifies a hate crime. It's like Toto pulled back the curtain and there wasn't anyone there at all. And please, more info, less text. Your paragraphs are hollow.

Well then how about instead of throwing out some insult, you tell me where I might be able to find this line-out on my iPod. Again, I have said I don't wish to be carrying around a suitcase full of equipment with me, so I really can't see much good it would do me anyway.
As my original post and clarification stated, the best way with the least amount of equipment = Super.Fi 5 Pro + iPod .... to get better bass response since you can't customize your own EQ settings.
With no EQ, you get little bass from those IEMs. So I came up with a solution to work for myself, and any others not wanting to lug around more gear. That's why iPods are the choice media player... they fit in your pocket easily, and your IEMs can fit in your shirt pocket or more likely where they should be, in your ears. If I have to start carrying around even a small headphone amp under a hat on my head to make it portable, I'm not interested.
And let me apologize for not being the headphone god you obviously are. Maybe people come to these places to try to learn new things that they don't know, and share what they might.
I think a little humility on your part is in order.

PJ

 

[Pete7]

Lugging around something called a headphone amplifier? Golly gee willikers! Who would possibly want to do that? Welcome to Head-Fi. I think you'll find we're pretty savvy when it comes to sound quality. Let Intro to Audiophiology 101 begin.

 

[StanleyBuchanan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ Ricewind, I've said that I am using a MAC for my audio processing. I find Macs are much better for that sort of stuff, and since my PC is 9 years old, I won't even attempt it. I use foobar on my PC to convert OGG or FLAC files I download from allofmp3.com aka alltunes.com to WAV files, then network them to my Mac. There is a reason the majority of the industry uses Macs for audio and video editing -- they are just better at it... Macs run on a UNIX based operating system, not some visual garbage (Windows) that still after all these years since the 8086 processor runs as a shell from DOS. You can blame that on the Intel/Microsoft money-grubbing co-op. Yes, Microsoft gives plenty of money to philanthropy, but their operating system is still a piece of garbage in my opinion. If you're using an iPod, made by Apple, you obviously like the interface of the device. For this very reason, people use Macs -- the interface is cleaner and the core operating system runs more efficiently. I could go into a number of reasons why Macs are better for most anything except web browsing, but that would just be more "verbal diarhea" that you would most likely skip over anyway. My suggestions on how to make an iPod were merely that -- suggestions. You certainly don't have to try them. But I guarantee you that they work very well. PJ

Just thinking out loud here...
Don't new macs have an x86 based processor... isn't it made by intel... didn't Steve Jobs say it the new powerbooks are 4x faster with x86 processors... didn't I buy an iPod just to configure rockbox... and what does an operating system have to do with media encryption...

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyBuchanan Just thinking out loud here... Don't new macs have an x86 based processor... isn't it made by intel... didn't Steve Jobs say it the new powerbooks are 4x faster with x86 processors... didn't I buy an iPod just to configure rockbox... and what does an operating system have to do with media encryption...

Yes. Absolutely all the new Macs have Intel Core Duo chips, or Intel Xeon.
But the native Mac OS X runs out of UNIX. There is a program called Parallel which allows you to run a native Windows XP side by side with the Mac OS or even boot up in PC mode. Apple is trying to capitalize on the PC market. They have nice looking equipment. So why not try to make something that can compete with Dell? I'm not complaining about Intel being a bad processor. I never said that. I said that for all these years, Intel and Microsoft have been simply increasing processor speed but no major work has been done to the architecture of the box or the way the operating system boots up. PCs still use BIOS (which Sony claims will be replaced shortly by a newer more secure technology aimed at copyproofing everything). But there are still files like autoexec.bat. DOS is ancient technology. That is where the partnership between Apple and Intel could prove quite lucrative. Now with Apple behind the wheel, Intel chips are running UNIX based operating systems. Why didn't Microsoft do this years ago? They new the money was in Software but not so much in hardware... however, they still could have made more stable operating systems.

Do you know what Open Source programs are? They are programs written by people that hate these software giants and write equally good programs if not better, for free. Microsoft Word, for example, was decompiled. It was shown that the code inside Microsoft Word was inflated by 2500%.... YES 2500%!!! Why would you intentionally make a program 2500% larger than it needs to be? Simple... so they can get people to buy new computers every 6 months with larger hard drives and drain peoples wallets. Do you also know that the newest version of the Linux operating system can run on a 486 computer? That is what I mean by an Intel/Microsoft co-op. They are in it together to "steal" money from the masses.

Intel most certainly makes a good chip. I think AMD does just as good if not better, for a cheaper price. You can even run different Media player operating systems on your iPod. Linux, in fact, makes an OS for iPod.

Back to the audiophile comment, obviously you guys know plenty about audiophile grade technology. I care to learn about it, but I don't have an unlimited budget, and this is one heck of an expensive hobby. I like great sounding audio as much as the next guy, but I think my little operation works great for my purpose, and just maybe someone else will read it and find it useful, too. Just because I don't know as much as you do, you don't need to knock me because of it. I'm new here, so try having some patience. This was a new hobby and arena for you once, too, and I would appreciate being guided in the proper direction.

Ultimately, your ears are the judge of what sounds good to you. And when I said that some people think those lame Apple earbuds sound better than the UE products, someone doubted me. I don't think it's fair to be calling me a liar either. Go to the Apple forums and read the reviews for yourself. Do I think those people are crazy for saying that? Absolutely 100%. But to each his own.

Back in the days when I had money to spend carelessly, I put a $17,000 car audio system in a 2000 Toyota Solara -- so yes, I do know what audiophile equipment sounds like.

If you can help me with certain questions I have, then great, I appreciate it. I'm sure others have answered questions for you in the past as well. I like to learn as much as I can, and I'm sure I will be incorrect about lots of things.... some maybe just because you prefer something over my tastes, and others may be legitimate fact.

But please take the time to help me if I have a question... or don't.
I would like to think that not all audiophiles have such an ego that they feel the need to stomp on the little guy who knows less than they do. You were the little guys at one point, too. You just didn't wake up one day and become an audiophile and know everything. I'm not planning on buying myself a set of STAX electrostatics -- I'm trying to get the best sound I can from my iPod, and if you can help me get it, I would appreciate it. If there's a good little headphone amp out there that you can recommend to me and you can show me how to use the line-out on the iPod, I would strongly consider it.

So please be patient, and not so critical and harsh. I wouldn't disrespect you, so I ask the same courtesy in return. I'm sure the forum moderators would agree with me on this.

Thank you.

PJ

 

[wax4213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ Well then how about instead of throwing out some insult, you tell me where I might be able to find this line-out on my iPod. Again, I have said I don't wish to be carrying around a suitcase full of equipment with me, so I really can't see much good it would do me anyway. As my original post and clarification stated, the best way with the least amount of equipment = Super.Fi 5 Pro + iPod .... to get better bass response since you can't customize your own EQ settings. With no EQ, you get little bass from those IEMs. So I came up with a solution to work for myself, and any others not wanting to lug around more gear. That's why iPods are the choice media player... they fit in your pocket easily, and your IEMs can fit in your shirt pocket or more likely where they should be, in your ears. If I have to start carrying around even a small headphone amp under a hat on my head to make it portable, I'm not interested. And let me apologize for not being the headphone god you obviously are. Maybe people come to these places to try to learn new things that they don't know, and share what they might. I think a little humility on your part is in order. PJ

I think the irksome thing here is that all of the information that you asked for is quite easily found by doing a few minutes of searching on these boards. This board is actually a much kinder forum than a good portion of the others out there, but no matter where you go, it's hard for some members to feel helpful when new guys don't even help themselves.

Secondly, Pete7 is completely right. We're crazy. We LIKE carrying around our stuff. FYI, the iPod's line out is the port on the bottom of the iPod, and it bypasses the internal amp. You can utilize this line out by getting a...dun dun dun... line out cable! Audiolineout makes some really nice ones, highly recommended. Also, when using this lineout, you have to use an external amplifier, as you probably guessed, unless you really want all of your music at ridiculously loud, unchangable volumes.

And also, un EQ'd music isn't flat. Through the right headphones, and many consider the Super.fi 5 pro's the right headphones, un EQ'd music is absolutely stunning. I used to EQ, now I don't, and I haven't looked back yet. If you don't like the sound/fit of your Super.fi's as is, you may want to search for the flip-flop mod, or something like that. Basically, you wear them in the opposite ears (make sure to switch the cables so your stereo sounds are still right), and sort of upside down. Seeing as I don't own a pair I can't describe it any better than that.

 

[wax4213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ Linux, in fact, makes an OS for iPod.

Ok. Right. Linux made something? Linux is a company? I didn't know that. I was under the impression that Linux was, in fact, the basis for many many many operating systems, but was itself just a kernel. I'm sure the OSS community would love to hear that Linux is now making things!

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ Back in the days when I had money to spend carelessly, I put a $17,000 car audio system in a 2000 Toyota Solara -- so yes, I do know what audiophile equipment sounds like.

Car audio and headphone audio are two completely different beasts. And over here, we tend to not just look at price, so $17,000 really means nothing. All we car about is how something sounds, and it's ridiculously hard to get "audiophile" quality sound in a car, especially when it's moving.

Again, use the search function, we help people who help themselves.

 

[Pete7]

Not trying to disrespect you at all. Just being a little sarcastic. I started trolling these forums about a year and a half ago. It's both a blessing and a curse. All I wanted was a good pair of IEM's to go along with my Sony DAP. I got a lot more than I bargained for. If you are mainly interested in getting the most out of your Ipod, you can consider using the line-out dock with an amp or if you have a 4th generation model, you may want to consider this:http://www.redwineaudio.com/iMod.html

They mod the headphone out into a really high quality line out, so no need for the dock, which adds a little too much bulkiness IMO. You have to use a headphone amp, but with lossless files it's truly the best sound quality available from an Ipod. Portable headphone amps are pretty compact,too and not as much a pain to lug around as I think you believe. Welcome to the forum, and sorry about your wallet! You might not realize it, but you may have just opened a big can of worms for yourself.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wax4213 I think the irksome thing here is that all of the information that you asked for is quite easily found by doing a few minutes of searching on these boards. This board is actually a much kinder forum than a good portion of the others out there, but no matter where you go, it's hard for some members to feel helpful when new guys don't even help themselves. Secondly, Pete7 is completely right. We're crazy. We LIKE carrying around our stuff. FYI, the iPod's line out is the port on the bottom of the iPod, and it bypasses the internal amp. You can utilize this line out by getting a...dun dun dun... line out cable! Audiolineout makes some really nice ones, highly recommended. Also, when using this lineout, you have to use an external amplifier, as you probably guessed, unless you really want all of your music at ridiculously loud, unchangable volumes. And also, un EQ'd music isn't flat. Through the right headphones, and many consider the Super.fi 5 pro's the right headphones, un EQ'd music is absolutely stunning. I used to EQ, now I don't, and I haven't looked back yet. If you don't like the sound/fit of your Super.fi's as is, you may want to search for the flip-flop mod, or something like that. Basically, you wear them in the opposite ears (make sure to switch the cables so your stereo sounds are still right), and sort of upside down. Seeing as I don't own a pair I can't describe it any better than that.

Yes, thank you wax4213.

I have flip-flopped the headphones. I actually went crazy trying all different positions when I first got them. I even inverted the cabled polarity to get a 180 degree inverse (much like in a car system with a subwoofer, to give the impression that the sonic low-end staging was coming from the front and not the rear where the subs were located). Well, this didn't work so well with the headphones. Some things sound better with them like that, but I've noticed that in the normal position, the instruments are more defined and you can hear the separation better. I think this is possibly because the low-end frequency armature is located horizontally next to the high-end frequency armature. So when you have them positioned in your ears one way, the low-end sound appears to be coming from the middle of your head, while the high end sound appears to be coming from slightly outside.... and vice versa when positioned the other way. I wonder how the Triple.Fi 10 Pro will be with the crazy configuration and directional tubing inside? From a diagram I saw, it looked as if both low end armatures were placed next to eachother, with the high end armature sitting on top of the low end ones. And based on some reviews that I read, everything is perfect (from their perspectives) in every respect (tonal balance, dynamics, roll off, etc) about the Triple.Fi's, EXCEPT THE FREAKING SOUND STAGING!!! Why can't UE get that part right?

Can you please recommend/direct me to the websites I should go to to buy the line-out cables, as well as several different portable headphone amplifiers? With the Triple.Fi's on the way, I really would like to hear even better quality sound.... especially if I don't have to do the whole -2db thing.

Thanks for your time.

PJ