[testrichard]

please help me as i m confused again.

recently came across Squeezebox while i research about DAC ~

and i dont know if i need Squeezebox or not ? my goal about my music system is to keep it as simple and minimize the noise as low as possible !!

i m new to hi-fi (week 2) and got myself UE triple Fi 10 Pro and protable AMP together with my laptop ~

i plan on setting up a NAS connected through WiFi router.

i will listen to music in 2 ways, one is via NAS > wifi > my Dell Axim X50V/X51V/X3i/imate 9502/Nokia 5580 as portable DAP using TCPMP (FLAC supported, APE not sure yet as still trying to find software that could play APE on PDAs though i heard some people make it work)

or just using my laptop through good DAC with my TF10 to enjoy musics ~

so do i still need SqueezeBox ? why do i need a squeezebox ? i read that its got good DSP and its also a good DAC but if i m going to use NAS together with wifi router ...... cant i skip the SqueezeBox as my PDA can already play FLAC straight away from NAS wirelessly any way ?

since i dont have a full hifi system set up like speaker etc from what i read i dont really need squeeze box, its for people have a hifi system and and like to feed the music from PC wirelesslly in another location right ?

and if i m going to use my laptop to listen to music, squeezebox isnt doing me any good as i better off using a DAC with it instead as if i use wifi then it just turnning the corner and back to the same noise issue right ?

with my option 1 ~ at most i could think of is to add a DAC between my PDA and my TF10 , is this correct set up ?

by the way, with my Portable DAP solution, can my windows Mobile PDA and nokia 5580 able to play output/play 24/192k to my TF10 if the source from my NAS is 24/192k ?

i m sure there must be some hifi-er using the same set up like me such as using their iphone / touch etc play music from wifi source right ? can you guys share your experience please ?? thank you very much.

thanks for taking time read my question, really need help as i m stucked

regards
testrichard

 

[iriverdude]

PDA output is lousy, so are mobile phones and laptop soundscards unless your laptop has digital out. Squeezebox is more than just a music player, it's a visual interface. Yes you could use a laptop for playing music but the Squeezebox is invisible to the computer, so if you want to watch a youtube video (with sound) and play music on the PC you can't as ASIO has locked out your soundcard. Also Squeezeboxes are multi-room.

I've got a couple of Squeezeboxes, couple of PC's and would recommend Squeezebox. Squeezecenter could be better, and it requires a bit more power than a bog standard NAS. Use a custom quiet computer. Also I don't have to worry about bit perfect, gapless as Squeezebox works flawlessy, I can't quite get gapless working from the PC. Also replaygain only works as fixed album/track not Squeezebox smart mode. Plus I have a display and remote otherwise I'd need to leave my 50" Pioneer plasma on just to control my HTPC and get screenburn in the process. Mediaportal sometimes acts up so would drive me nuts when I just want to listen to music.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

i don't see why you would want to get a squeezebox if you're gonna use your laptop as a source through a NAS. it basically does the same thing. while the dac section of the squeezebox is decent it's not worth the money to use solely as a dac. you would be better off with a portable dac/amp like the pico or ibasso.

 

[testrichard]

thanks SemiAudio ~ thats just what i thought and confused about

i thought that by theory it will just be 0 and 1 so it shouldnt make any difference between wifi router or SqueezBox , but the DAC end will be crucial if i want minimum noise and better sound quality ( of course iriver - guy is right about the bit perfect or gapless thing , since wifi and my PDA wont be able to act as processor to process those info/function )

but thats where DAC come in right ? with good DAC , things that irive - guy mention should be solve

also thanks iriver - guy (with restpect

for answer my question although not quite the answer i m looking for.

my laptop do have 1394 and S/PDIF optical out (3.5mm) but i understood i still need a DAC since the laptop sound card can never do the job.

have you tried the TCPMP or PocketMusicBundle ? you r very right that PDA is lousy player since my X51v some times cant even play 720p smoothly with TCPMP. but there is alot of potential since it can play FLAC too and also play files on my NAS via wifi using GSfinder+ (this is the part that comes as you mention as a visual device to your computer, PDA r able to telnet/remote desktop or access the files of NAS just like your wireless laptop)

the future development is mobile device could act as 2nd mini screen like windows gadget to Vista/win7 . iphone is also heading the same direction as with software installed iphone can also act as 2nd screen to Mac (there is a software i think could act as number's pad just like the usual number pad on the right hand side of your regular full size keyboard and its useful for people input numbers alot )

iphone also have a software could act just like the SqueezeBox duet's remote control, i also think mobile device could be just like the fancy Logitech LCD screen remote control by software installation.

my PDA has been really good to me, i have spent countless time with it, read pdf files or doc etc on my NAS from my PDA just like a kindle, watch movies on my NAS from my PDA, even log in to my NAS via remote desktop to control it.

i might have to spend time to research if my PDA has any problems that iriver - Guy mentioned can be solve such as " ASIO has locked out your soundcard" and " bit perfect, gapless " otherwise , every lovely things iriver mentioned is already happening with PDA

 

[testrichard]

"so if you want to watch a youtube video (with sound) and play music on the PC you can't as ASIO has locked out your soundcard. "

i think i catch what you mean there, do u mean like if i have one pc watching youtube while another seperate DAP or pc playing music ~ in normal set up without squeezebox it cant be done ?? but this doesnt make sense to me as in usual wifi network with NAS we should always be able to access files on NAS and listen to music multi-task without trouble ?

 

[testrichard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by testrichard /img/forum/go_quote.gif by the way, with my Portable DAP solution, can my windows Mobile PDA and nokia 5580 able to play output/play 24/192k to my TF10 if the source from my NAS is 24/192k ? testrichard

my apology as i just read another post about the myth between 24 vs 16 bits and realize how silly that question is on the scientific front

but for testing reason if i manage to find both 24/96 and 24/192 i will dump it on my NAS and test out, then report what i found if its workable. for now~ i understand that 16/44.1 is very much indeed good enough may be.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

but thats where DAC come in right ? with good DAC

Nope you may still not get perfect gapless as have to fiddle with gapless settings. I've tried and it's not like the original CD or Squeezebox.

Quote:

i don't see why you would want to get a squeezebox if you're gonna use your laptop as a source through a NAS.

Still benefit of remote control and interface. Although you may be able to use your PDA to control the laptop to play music. And like I said you don't have multi-room with your setup,

Quote:

n normal set up without squeezebox it cant be done ??

Correct, unless you allow directsound mixer which allows multi streams at once, but kinda defeats the purpose of bit perfect/asio as it's going through soundcard mixer. When I play music in winamp with ASIO I cannot play other sounds on other applications, winamp/asio locks the soundcard out to other apps.

You could use your PDA to control Squeezebox.

 

[testrichard]

thanks iriver ~

it appears that you understood me and have been through the path i think.

"Nope you may still not get perfect gapless as have to fiddle with gapless settings. I've tried and it's not like the original CD or Squeezebox."

i c

"Still benefit of remote control and interface. Although you may be able to use your PDA to control the laptop to play music. And like I said you don't have multi-room with your setup,"

interesting

can you be more specific as this might be only you would experienced as most people might have only 1 sqeezeBox and one hifi set up? so by multi-room do u mean like if u have two different set up of hifi system in two different location connected with two SqeezeBox ? or two computer connected with one squeezebox with 2 hifi set up in two different location ? the multi-room capabilities could be a surprise to people looking for such function and didnt know !! and thus save them money if they now know squeezebox can do that ?

" Correct, unless you allow directsound mixer which allows multi streams at once, but kinda defeats the purpose of bit perfect/asio as it's going through soundcard mixer. When I play music in winamp with ASIO I cannot play other sounds on other applications, winamp/asio locks the soundcard out to other apps. "

interesting, thanks iriver~ i would have never know since i m not sure my cheap laptop sound card can even play ASIO or not (chances r not,think its only available to premium sound card) i m sure this post will be helpful for people use search keyword if facing similar problems like me~ credits to the SemiAudio and iriver

 

[iriverdude]

Two audio systems, Squeezebox in each one. Each Squeezebox connects to your switch which in turn is controlled by slimcenter. You can have the same track playing in sync mode, or different tracks at the same time. You only need one instance of slimcenter running. Of course you can have a Squeezebox in each room if you like streaming music, as long as your network and computer running is fast enough. Once you buy a Squeezebox it's easy, just connect another up to your switch, slim center will see it automatically, and set the box up.

Nothing wrong with using a computer for playback but Squeezebox is a whole lot smoother, easier to use. And more powerful, Winamp doesn't have anything like Erlands custom browse feature. You can even use IR plugin to control your amp.

 

[testrichard]

" but the Squeezebox is invisible to the computer "

oh i c now, its not that squeezebox is invisible to the computer~ its because since the squeezebox already act as DAC ,hence when datas being sync from NAS/PC to the squeezebox are just raw data feed to it, while the real digital to analog process happen at squeezebox end , hence the hifi or DAP can come out with sound without being locked by ASIO

but if this being the case..... wouldnt any regular DAP at different location with data feed from original NAS/PC via wifi router able to play music just fine ?? after all the process end is done at the DAP site ?

 

[iriverdude]

Slimcenter is a computer service, if you use the comptuer you don't know that other people are using the service. As long as it's powered up, the Squeezebox's will work. You may want to get a dedicated slimserver box.

Does a DAP offer several TB of storage, IR or RF remote control and a large VFD visible from across the room? Also what DAP's apart from H120/H140 offer digital out for sensible money? For the iwadia £400 plus ipod £200 and still paltry 160GB storage. No remote either.

Can you control each DAP remotely? What about syncing them? Creating playlists for each room?

I've got a H140 and would not use it for a source for home audio, it's really limited in storage and usability.

 

[testrichard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Two audio systems, Squeezebox in each one. Each Squeezebox connects to your switch which in turn is controlled by slimcenter. You can have the same track playing in sync mode, or different tracks at the same time. You only need one instance of slimcenter running. Of course you can have a Squeezebox in each room if you like streaming music, as long as your network and computer running is fast enough. Once you buy a Squeezebox it's easy, just connect another up to your switch, slim center will see it automatically, and set the box up. amp.

alright, i m feeling dizzy and having trouble to visualize it now lol sorry, i will digest and visualize what you mean later.

so iriver , can u answer my question ? i mean i guess what i trying to ask in my original post is that, with my cheap set up ~ will the quality of the sound/data decrease (0 and 1 still stays the same right? ) from PC/NAS > wifi > my PDA/DAP ? compare to NAS/PC > squeezebox > PDA/DAP ??

the reason i asked and posted this thread is because squeezebox is design to dedicated to this task and for people to enjoy music wirelessly and with minimum noise, while a normal NAS > wifi router set up isnt !! so is that why i would need a squeezebox ?( hence the why ? ) thanks... sorry i m pulling this thread way too long but that really is all i want to know

may be others with knowledge about sound quality loss in transition can also share there idea ~ with air being medium compare to cables , would it perform better and loss less quality compare to traditional cables ??

 

[iriverdude]

If your sources don't have digital out to send a DAC they'll be lousy. No way a PDA or a DAP can compete with a media streamer, playing lossless to a DAC. But the data stays the same until it's decoded and converted to analogue.

 

[testrichard]

not trying to argue but i think i have got an idea here and let me know if you think its workable ? but i m convinced by you that squeezebox could be cheaper solution for overall set up and to me i will opt for squeezebox receiver since my PDA might do the remote job.

here is my idea,

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does a DAP offer several TB of storage, IR or RF remote control and a large VFD visible from across the room? Also what DAP's apart from H120/H140 offer digital out for sensible money? For the iwadia £400 plus ipod £200 and still paltry 160GB storage. No remote either. Can you control each DAP remotely? What about syncing them? Creating playlists for each room? I've got a H140 and would not use it for a source for home audio, it's really limited in storage and usability.

lets say u have multiple PCs in different location all connected via wireless or cable network, with my PDA i can log in to different PCs in different location as long as they have different IP , i can even use the foobar http or foobar bluetooth plug in to control each different PCs as long as i m able to connect to them, this way i can achieve what you challenged me just now ~ how ever i would like to point out that this way is way more expensive and each PC still have DAC issue plus using much more electricity and have to be turn on 24/7 albeit no monitor needed ~ so i guess the jury is out

never the less, very education experience

thanks

 

[SemiAudiophile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by testrichard /img/forum/go_quote.gif the reason i asked and posted this thread is because squeezebox is design to dedicated to this task and for people to enjoy music wirelessly and with minimum noise, while a normal NAS > wifi router set up isnt !! so is that why i would need a squeezebox ?( hence the why ? ) thanks... sorry i m pulling this thread way too long but that really is all i want to know

what noise problems are you talking about or that you have been experiencing. can you be more specific so that we can help you? are you talking about interference?

my impression was that you wanted to use your laptop as a source to play music files from a separate music server wirelessly with your amp using your triple fi. if that is the case, then just get a simple usb dac and feed it to your amp. forget about the squeezebox because it is unnecessary.

however, if you are gonna use a PDA or similar as a source then you will be using it's built-in dac unless it has digital out.