Why pick on cables ?

[theveterans]

I find that listening to something for a period of time, then switching out to compare, generally works very well for me.

That's how most sighted comparos are made though. You listen to the sound of the headphone/IEM system, make notes, use it as reference then make a change (DAP, cables, etc.) then listen again. Now, psychology thinks the act of seeing a different component of a system after making that change creates preconceived bias of expecting a different sound

 

[CK Moustache]

What will cause bigger changes when swapping the amp(or some cables), is how low the lowest impedance gets, and also how big is the difference between min and max impedance(aligned with how sensitive we are to those frequencies, big changes at 19kHz won't do much for our impressions). So when it comes to voltage changes(FR changes), that IEM seems pretty stable(I have no idea what that circuit is actually doing).

I'm fairly bad at maths (despite being on the far, far right of the Asperger's spectrum ), but if I just used the correct formula, then you're absolutely right (I personally don't really care too much about frequencies above 12/14 kHz anyway): the added impedance to cause a comparatively small 0.5 dB delta from 1 kHz to 1.8 kHz (and 1.6 dB from 8.8 kHz to 13.5 kHz respectively 0.6 dB from 1 kHz to 8.8 kHz) would have to be 50 Ohms, which is indeed much, much more than any reasonably constructed cable would add - so it's indeed safe to say that any source with reasonably low(-ish) output impedance and any reasonably constructed cable won't cause any audible frequency response changes.

(Well, at least I wasn't totally wrong, since my original post ("I just looked up the U12Ts' impedance response, and while it is fairly even, it's still not entirely flat, so there will still be an effect on frequency response based on the cable's resistance/source's output impedance (but to a lesser degree than if there were no impedance linearisation circuit).") remains valid, as I didn't mention that this effect would be on the audible spectrum. )

(I have no idea what that circuit is actually doing)

I'd guess it's safe to say that it's most likely a built-in voltage divider circuit (like the iFi iEMatch).

 

[BS5711]

I’m always game for leaning more. Thanks for the test.

@Redcarmoose

Wondering if you made time to do this little rhodium plug versus normal plug blind comparison ?

 

[Redcarmoose]

@Redcarmoose

Wondering if you made time to do this little rhodium plug versus normal plug blind comparison ?

I haven’t yet. But yesterday was the end of another multi day cable influence which I documented in my last two reviews.

So I have reviewed 19 Kiwi ears products in total and finally they made a modular cable.

This is a big deal for some as some Head-Fi members have 4.4mm and for the first time Kiwi ears is providing a modular cable (allowing access to 4.4mm) and keeping up with the joneses here!

Not thinking it would be different from other modular cables, the good part was it came in 3.5mm and 4.4mm. I use 4.4mm to access a different amplifier with bigger capacitors in the Sony WM1A and WM1Z. So the different amplifier sounds slightly bigger staged and so on. Anyways during the testing cycle of the 2nd to last review during the burn-in time for that IEM I rolled in this cable. It was for the IEM I was reviewing from Kiwi ears 2nd in line and didn’t come with this IEM. This was a short test but I instantly noticed how bright this signature was. But I was not sure why, did this DD in use suddenly get more burned-in and sound different, or was it the style of ear-tips I was using, what was it?

Then days later I finished the second review and during that review I noted that while the IEM being tested is relatively neutral the company gave this cable with it that generally raised the brightness a little, often to the ceiling of desired tone. Thus possibly making a different source or ear-tips required. I ended finding a different (darker) maker of a modular cable that has a known lower midrange girth and heft, a warmth that is it’s personality.

Funny too a member from India was just taking about that cable telling me about the lower midrange heft and girth and I had never talked to him before? He must not have read any of my reviews pertaining to the cable?

Anyway how does the fact that this included cable have a surprisingly brighter demeanor that totally confused me during the course of two reviews. How would I have gotten psychologically tainted to start to perceive this random new cable as bright. I never read any of the reviews talking about the character of the cable beforehand? I reviews hundreds of new IEMs with included cables and this particular one was slightly different. In fact I tried to research Kiwi ears and look up the properties which could affect such cable, but they don’t list it as pure copper or a silver plated copper. Though I know from experience it must be silver plated and getting the extra resolution they are trying to get to.

 

[BS5711]

I haven’t yet.

Given your proclivity to hearing sonic differences with essentially every small change I would be keen to hear your observations from a genuinely well controlled blind assessment of the rhodium versus standard termination that you are certain makes a difference based on past comments.

That is a very easy test to undertake not needing any volume matching and it is a simple thing for somebody to help you with, only needing them to randomly swap terminations back and forth and so long as you can't see what they are doing there should be no possible tell that might give a clue to what is on the cable at any given time.

I don't mean to come across as a wise ass but I believe you might just be surprised at the sensation of blind testing and the results may even give you cause for consideration about all the tiny nuances that you often talk about.

Or it may not ...............

I don't mean to single you out but, all due respect, you are the polar opposite of me and my experiences and you rely utterly on hearing not controlled listening and it would be an interesting exercise if you are game to put your hearing to the test

Cheers mate

 

[Redcarmoose]

@BS5711,
No it is important for you to single me out. As looking I'm the only member in Head-Fi history to do a full review on the Rhodium plug and its affects on the audio chain. I'm just so busy with reviews as I'm six reviews behind and still need to proof-read one posted! Cheers!

Manufactures don't put a time limit on reviews, but it is obvious that there is a time limit on interest of a specific IEM model. Where IEMs are produced then go through a learning and experience curve by the public at large, then tail off in popularity/sales..............at times fast or at times slow due to intrinsic quality versus price to be obtained on the market front. Obviously popularity is influenced by exposure and marketing too.

Top to bottom:
Penon Rhodium 3-in-1 Plug $29.00
ISN CS02 with Rhodium Plug $69.90
Penon OSG with Rhodium Plug $299.00

3 in 1 Series:
Penon OBSIDIAN $149.00
Penon Leo Plus $249.00
Penon Mix (with 3-in-1 Palladium "Purple" Plug) $149.00 (Cable by itself)
Penon Space $99.90

A modular Rhodium plug above:

Below from my review where I subjectively compare regular gold plated Copper to Rhodium and Palladium.

“Rhodium v Palladium:
But in truth there was a difference between the Rhodium Plug and the Palladium Plug. Where the Rhodium was more stingy with the out-put, holding back and refining a stance, the Palladium was more forward and vibrant showing more colors and closer imaging? Though I can totally see how both could be of use in the right application, it was just in contrast to one another the differences were (totally) noticeable. With that said, the regular included copper plugs offered a thicker response of slightly less contrast, and because of the contrast seemed to show a more evenly distributed response? Thicker, warmer and holding a denser background stance? And some may only want that effect? Where especially with Palladium Plug (in contrast) showing a closer and in-your-face style of imaging.............gaining resolution and texture while still not sibilant or too bright? “

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/the-penon-rhodium-plated-modular-plug.26746/reviews#review-31868

Some various plugs of different metallurgy. It has been awhile and I didn't read the review but I'm guessing from left to right is Rhodium, then Palladium and then regular gold plated plugs? The other difference is gold will deteriorate over time where the finish on Rhodium will never oxidize and the finish on the Rhodium plug will remain "clean" for your lifetime.

The famous ISN CS02 with Rhodium Plug $69.90

 

[BS5711]

@BS5711,
No it is important for you to single me out.

Thanks for your understanding

 

[bigshot]

Manufactures don't put a time limit on reviews

just the result

 

[gregorio]

I noted that while the IEM being tested is relatively neutral the company gave this cable with it that generally raised the brightness a little …

Wow, a company supplying a cable that breaks the laws of physics, who would have thought? Why is it that all these audiophile companies manage all these breakthroughs in bending/defeating the laws of physics but never win any Nobel Prizes? You think maybe the Nobel Committee is just biased against audiophile companies?

G

 

[Redcarmoose]

Wow, a company supplying a cable that breaks the laws of physics, who would have thought? Why is it that all these audiophile companies manage all these breakthroughs in bending/defeating the laws of physics but never win any Nobel Prizes? You think maybe the Nobel Committee is just biased against audiophile companies?

G

Physicists are changing the understood paradigm all the time?

What about when CERN made lead into gold when lead nuclei traveling at almost the speed of light became the extra protons to be measured using a new mechanism, as gold.

The understanding of everything is not always cemented in place.

By the way, your post is way too smart (as you perfectly well know) azz, just saying!

 

[bigshot]

The company didn’t claim it broke the laws of physics the manufacturer paid reviewer did.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Physicists are changing the understood paradigm all the time?

What about when CERN made lead into gold when lead nuclei traveling at almost the speed of light became the extra protons to be measured using a new mechanism, as gold.

The understanding of everything is not always cemented in place.

By the way, your post is way too smart (as you perfectly well know) azz, just saying!

No. Nothing smart "azz" about it. This ridiculous thinking is embarrassing and you should feel embarrassed to share these opinions, especially here in "Sound Science". The entire gamut of cable rituals and capacitor tribulations in audiophilia, it would appear, amount to nothing more than looking for another thing to buy, and you're part of the problem.

 

[CharetteHugh]

Totally get you. Cables get all the heat, but no one questions pricey amps or DACs the same way.

 

[Redcarmoose]

No. Nothing smart "azz" about it. This ridiculous thinking is embarrassing and you should feel embarrassed to share these opinions, especially here in "Sound Science". The entire gamut of cable rituals and capacitor tribulations in audiophilia, it would appear, amount to nothing more than looking for another thing to buy, and you're part of the problem.

Honestly this cable debate has gone on for a lifetime of time. There is pretty much no end in sight, not in our lifetimes anyway. There is really no reason to get emotional about it, or to write insults or criticisms to another member. We are all in this audiophile thing together. Have fun!

I’m sure if you came over to the house and visited me, the human ideas of comradely would surface and take over. This cable business would become a small or even a non existent issue. After dinner and a beer we could recoil into having fun with audio equipment!

You do understand that I have spent countless hours trying to get my head around this cable question, and I should be embarrassed to post here? Really? If anything this is the perfect place to share my opinion, that’s what the forums of Head-Fi are for. You don’t have to read what I post. Remember the simple cause is the greatest motivator in human emotion/psychology. That means a cause creates this force and creates drama. Maybe this is a holdover from human evolution, enabling the pack attitude in groups of humans to survive, and for good reason in our history. But it is not needed as much anymore, and shows up as a burden at times.

 

[bigshot]

There is no cable debate. One side has all the facts on their side, and the other has hot air and magical thinking. That doesn’t make for much debate. Some people who don’t know when to quit. Dunning Kruger.