[spike33]

I've searched and have not found an answer for this question. Most of the threads talk about how much better aftermarket cables are. Is the improvement due to coloration (ie making HD650 sound brighter) or is there actual performance gain? Merely by making the cables brighter, it can increase perceived detail, airiness, tighten up the bass and overall clarity. Is this just deceiving people into believing it's better? My (limited) understanding is that the stock cable is OFC copper and should not degrade the sound quality. Tell me why the stock cable is bad.

I'd like to settle this once and for all.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 I'd like to settle this once and for all.

O.k. -- here's my definitive answer... (just kidding

)

The stock cable isn't really bad; in fact it looks quite well designed: multiple isolated OFC copper wires of small diameters, can go for magnet wires. It's just that all aftermarket cables I've tried make the HD 650 sound better, even clearly better with the exception of the Oehlbach. The sound becomes airier and more detailed, more brilliant, exactly what the HD 650 can use. Of course nobody can tell which of the cables alters the signal the least, but under this premise all that's left is to judge the over-all sound -- and it speaks for the aftermarket cables. The stock cable sounds a bit sticky, rough and dry and lacks clarity and transparency compared to the other cables. The only relatively positive aspect is a certain organic quality (which is a common concomitant of intransparency, though).
.

 

[mysticaldodo]

The stock cable has its own sound characteristics. That is not a bad thing at all. Depends on what you like. From your research, I'm sure you at least got an idea on how each cable should sound like.


Moving on from the stock cable to the Zu Mobius, I found the sound to be more transparent, slightly more detail and faster which is to my liking. It is slightly brighter. However the difference (or improvement in my case) was moderate and the HD 650 still sounds like a HD 650 (which is a good thing).

What exactly are you looking for to improve in the HD 650 or are you?

 

[spike33]

I'm more than happy with the HD650 as they are right now but (damn you headfi) I'm curious how much better the other cables are. You guys say things like "more transparent, slightly more detail and faster" and "airier and more detailed, more brilliant". This suggests that the aftermarket cables are really just adding coloration to the sound by making them brighter and reducing the bass. This is not necessarily a bad thing. So final question: does aftermarket cables degrade sound less than stock?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 ...This suggests that the aftermarket cables are really just adding coloration to the sound by making them brighter and reducing the bass.

I can't follow your logic here

... (although can't prove the opposite).
.

 

[saint.panda]

Some cables change the tonal characteristics but they also improve the HD 650 on a technical level. The Zu makes the headphones brighter but also improves things like soundstage and bass definition. The Equinox would be a fine example of an aftermarket cable that retains the stock cable sound but improves technical capabilities such as soundstage and focus without significantly altering the tonal balance. In this regard, an aftermarket cable isn't only a more expensive substitue for an equalizer. To answer your original question, I think there is actual performance gain.

 

[Zorander]

I had a Silver Dragon cable but I ended up selling it (and went back to the stock cable). I realised I prefer the balance of the stock cable (despite the SD's better clarity and extension) and also the fact that the SD stiffness was distracting me from really enjoying my music.

 

[spike33]

From what you guys are saying:
1) Sound improvement via coloration (good for majority of people)
2) Less degradation of sound compared to stock

So how does stock degrade the sound if it is OFC copper?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 From what you guys are saying: 1) Sound improvement via coloration (good for majority of people)

Who was saying that? There's no (technical) reason to assume that the stock cable colors the sound any less than the other cables.


Quote:

2) Less degradation of sound compared to stock

Some partial aspects such as higher clarity and transparency speak for this.


Quote:

So how does stock degrade the sound if it is OFC copper?

Why do you think this feature makes it invulnerable? The aftermarket cables may (additionally) have other technical properties which make them superior anyway. If there's anything that can be considered a generally superior design with cables at all.
.

 

[PATB]

Spike, FWIW, I prefer the stock cable to the Zu Mobius, which I had the opportunity to audition for a year before selling it. Having said that, I prefer the Equinox to the stock because of the modest gain in smoothness and extension (both bass and treble). The difference between the stock and the Equinox is NOT night and day, unlike the difference between the Zu and the stock. The Equinox is so close to the stock cable in terms of sonic performance it is bordering on placebo, so you are fine.

To my ears, the Zu is much brighter than stock. If I want a bright headphone, I get a Grado instead

 

[applebook]

In terms of actual wiring and plugs, the stock 650 cable (and I believe the 600 cable as well) are virtually identical to many aftermarket models. AFAIK, the only differences are slightly purer copper - Senn's 99.9& versus 99.999999999999 or whatever of the competition - and Cardas/ Neutrik/ Other plugs compared to Senn's.

I just got my Silver Dragon, and the main reason why I chose it is because it uses a completely different material (silver), so there's no placebo effect here. So far, it sounds more detailed, dynamic, and has better separation, but the BASS seems leaner, which is not a bad thing at all for the 650

Consider me a tentative believer in cables.

 

[iDesign]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB Spike, FWIW, I prefer the stock cable to the Zu Mobius, which I had the opportunity to audition for a year before selling it. Having said that, I prefer the Equinox to the stock because of the modest gain in smoothness and extension (both bass and treble). The difference between the stock and the Equinox is NOT night and day, unlike the difference between the Zu and the stock. The Equinox is so close to the stock cable in terms of sonic performance it is bordering on placebo, so you are fine. To my ears, the Zu is much brighter than stock. If I want a bright headphone, I get a Grado instead

I also support PATB's comments on HD650 replacement cables. I believe that an important distinction should be made that the Original Equipment Sennheiser cable is not less competent in contrast to other replacement cables rather it merely belongs to a different sonic category of cables. The OEM Sennheiser cable suits my sonic and physical design standards well--both of which have been the compromise of some after market cable examples.

Best,
iDesign

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorander ...the SD stiffness was distracting me from really enjoying my music.

Now I understand...

With Moon Audio cables, they either have to be fully extended or looped

 

[bigshot]

The stock cable is what Sennheiser ships with the cans, and it's what their published specs are based on. Assuming that the peculiar aspects of the stock cable are what Sennheiser chose to work well with their drivers and the other aspects of their headphone design, any other type of cable that produces a different sort of sound would be "colored" by definition, wouldn't it?

See ya
Steve

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot The stock cable is what Sennheiser ships with the cans, and it's what their published specs are based on. Assuming that the peculiar aspects of the stock cable are what Sennheiser chose to work well with their drivers and the other aspects of their headphone design, any other type of cable that produces a different sort of sound would be "colored" by definition, wouldn't it? See ya Steve

"Colored" compared to what, Steve? I agree with Jazz on this. There's no reason to believe that if we're all using "perfect neutrality" as a reference, there's no reason to believe that aftermarket cables are more colored than the stock Senn cable. Having said that, there's also no objective "perfect neutrality."