[kuma]

Quote:

With regards to actual equipment not accessories CDplayers usually the heavier the better, same with turntables.

That's incorrect.

Can't assess kit's sonic merits by its weight.
From my experience, you really can't generalise.

 

[Hershon2000]

Thanks for illuminating me on build quality & I can see it being an important factor for you guys especially if you invest so much. My perspective is a little different from most of the board in that, based on a somewhat limited budget, I try to buy equipment used & probably the most I've spent on a single product new is around $1,000 for a speaker system. As such, I've never really had anything break down on me but I always look at any purchase with the idea that as long as it lasts 3 years, I'm happy & if something breaks down after that, its no big deal, I can probably find something current at half of what I paid 3 years ago that does the same because of technical advances. As you guys are spending alot more moohlah, obviously you have higher expectations in how long it will last.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuma That's incorrect. Can't assess kit's sonic merits by its weight. From my experience, you really can't generalise.

I don't know - my experience tells me you can.

Especially in turntables, but for most gear in general, the heavier a device is, the more resistant it is to shock and to other vibrations that would cause a less trustworthy presentation of the audio. This is a common trait amongst just about all audiophile turntables - they're all frickin' huge!

Rega tables aren't, which strikes me as odd because they compete with those such as the Scout. I've never heard a high-end Rega compared with a Scout, but an educated guess tells me that the Scout would destroy it, hands down, in terms of overall fidelity.

 

[kuma]

Aman,

From where I am coming from, especially for a turntable, havier the table, deader the music.

For a CD player, it might be how the added weight is used.
It's a pretty fair assumption that there is a sonic gain to be heard when a heavier/beefier power supply is used.

How the transport is supported, also seems to have effect. I have heard a suspended types can work well whilst rigid and fixed applications also have their merits.

Altho, it seems the same sonic traits follow as a turntable. i.e. heavier the transport, deader the music.

Each execution or how the vibrations produced by a transport has a different sonic presentation in that what sounds *better* becomes a subjective thing.

Hence, I was objecting to previous poster's extremely generalised comments.

 

[Garbz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuma That's incorrect. Can't assess kit's sonic merits by its weight. From my experience, you really can't generalise.

Forgive me that was taken incorrectly as a generalisation. Heaver does not mean better. But heavier is a source of improvement for crystal and transport jitter which is what fuels the whole spiked / rubber feet, and insanely heavy racks industry. So while it is possible to make good light cdplayers. Typically some of the better units i.e. Marrants Cdplayers, NAIM, Electrocompaniet etc weigh a LOT. This makes me feel as though some thought has been put into isolation and build as well as the electronics.

Also yeah it's a common question about Rega tables. I have a Rega P3 and there is a significant performance improvment on an isolation platform. The platform made very little difference to the beast of a turntable my mate owned.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 Alot of the posts on here seem to be bragging about their new equipment without saying what's so special about the equipment in terms of sound quality. I don't mind them bragging as long as I know what they're bragging about in regards to audio quality. Or if they do mention sound quality its almost secondary to their post.

I spent some time reading through every single thread on the first page of this forum. Every thread that contained a review of a piece of gear contained a discussion of its sound quality. Every one.

Many threads also contained pictures or discussed build quality. However, I did not find a single thread that discussed build quality or appearance without also discussing sound. There were a couple of threads where the initial post said, "I just received my _______. Here are some pictures. Build quality is great. More review to come." But in every instance that I saw, that was followed by a detailed discussion of the gear, including a discussion of what it sounds like.

It's also worth noting that in instances where there were pictures, those pictures often were clearly intended to supplement the written description of the functionality of the equipment. For example, I saw pictures of close ups of controls or connections. That conveys information that, IMHO, has less to do with appearance and more to do with the way the gear works, and the relevance of that type of information is self-evident.

Moreover, you haven't provided a single specific example of the type of post that you're talking about. I could not find any evidence at all to support your assertion that there is more discussion here about the appearance of gear than about its sound. In fact, I found the opposite to be true.

 

[Hershon2000]

To restate again, I didn't say people didn't comment on the audio quality of things in their posts but rather there was not much emphasis in their posts on the actual audio quality which is quite a difference in what your saying I claimed. I find people misread & misconstrue things because they want to misread & misconstrue things. And no I'm not going to go through each post & dissect them, I have better things to do with my time.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuma Aman, From where I am coming from, especially for a turntable, havier the table, deader the music. For a CD player, it might be how the added weight is used. It's a pretty fair assumption that there is a sonic gain to be heard when a heavier/beefier power supply is used. How the transport is supported, also seems to have effect. I have heard a suspended types can work well whilst rigid and fixed applications also have their merits. Altho, it seems the same sonic traits follow as a turntable. i.e. heavier the transport, deader the music. Each execution or how the vibrations produced by a transport has a different sonic presentation in that what sounds *better* becomes a subjective thing. Hence, I was objecting to previous poster's extremely generalised comments.

There are many schools of thought on turntable plinth design ( arn't there always!) but what you are arguing about seems to be the difference between high mass designs favoured mainly by the Japanese, and often in mounting older rim drive decks, and suspended subchassis designs favoured by Linn / AR / Thorens.
The famous Linn "bounce" suspended subchassis adds some sort of colouration which makes rhythmic sounds seem more coherent whereas the high mass approach seems to give greater solidity of imaging.
Both are equally valid and a matter of taste rather than anything else.

I can't see this with regard to CD transports though? I havn't heard that many up-to-date bespoke transports but the Linn Ikemi is probably the best example and is much lighter than any of the recent Naim stuff maninly due to the design of the power supply. I wouldn't say it sounds more lively though.


B&O kitis a good case in point as mentioned but most would say they have stopped making stuff that sounds all that great in recent years becoming more style over content compared to their 80's and older stuff which was proper Hi-Fi.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Both are equally valid and a matter of taste rather than anything else.

Yes.
That was my point.

Quote:

I can't see this with regard to CD transports though? I havn't heard that many up-to-date bespoke transports but the Linn Ikemi is probably the best example and is much lighter than any of the recent Naim stuff maninly due to the design of the power supply. I wouldn't say it sounds more lively though.

Naim transports fall into the light suspended design category. ( follow the same low-mass but rigid principle to drain the vibration quickly )
The Ikemi's transport, indeed, is relatively light but IIRC, it's not suspended.

I am sure a heavy mass casing can be good but I have some light weight CD players sounding good as well. ( even with a chassis ringing )

As anything in hifi, not a good idea to generalise.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

This makes me feel as though some thought has been put into isolation and build as well as the electronics.

Yes.
A different way of dealing with vibration.
I doubt we can totaly *isolate* it.
High-mass or low-mass way of doing it.

Two different paths.

 

[Patrick82]

I would plug my K1000 into a big pile of manure if it sounds better.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 I find people misread & misconstrue things because they want to misread & misconstrue things.

Yeah, they sure do.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs I could not find any evidence at all to support your assertion that there is more discussion here about the appearance of gear than about its sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 To restate again, I didn't say people didn't comment on the audio quality of things in their posts but rather there was not much emphasis in their posts on the actual audio quality which is quite a difference in what your saying I claimed.

I stand by my characterization of your claim.

Moreover, I did not ask you to pick apart every thread in this forum. I just observed that you have not identified a single example of the type of post that you assert is common.

 

[Alu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 And no I'm not going to go through each post & dissect them, I have better things to do with my time.

So you're not even going to prove your point by linking an example of your previous claim?

People gave you plenty of replies now that "we people" do care about audio quality first anyways, so I guess that's the answer to the question you wanted to find isn't it?

 

[acs236]

This thread is useless without pics!