[wakeride74]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a Sony 52" XBR3 LCD panel and SD looks awesome on it. Not as good as HD, of course, but better than SD ever looked on any previous display I ever had. Sony's DRC does a really great job if you adjust it properly. It won't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but at least you get fine linen!

I have the same TV and I have no complaints about SD. When Comcast was out recently they told me there is a new HD cable box that does a much better job with SD PQ. I don't think it's bad so I haven't changed mine out but I would blame more on the source than the TV if PQ is bad... especially if the local store is splitting that signal several ways for all the different TV's.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a Sony 52" XBR3 LCD panel and SD looks awesome on it. Not as good as HD, of course, but better than SD ever looked on any previous display I ever had. Sony's DRC does a really great job if you adjust it properly. It won't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but at least you get fine linen!

Good to know. My next purchase is a Bravia XBR LCD (Sony). When people see cable TV (analog 480i) on my old Wega set, they often comment on the picture, how good it is and "is that a DVD?" This has to do with the rescaler and the amount of time I spent calibrating the set via the menu and service menu, and the Video Essentials DVD.

My biggest beef with digital cable is digital blocking and motion blur. Of course this is only in the store, so the settings could be really hot on those sets too.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good to know. My next purchase is a Bravia XBR LCD (Sony). When people see cable TV (analog 480i) on my old Wega set, they often comment on the picture, how good it is and "is that a DVD?" This has to do with the rescaler and the amount of time I spent calibrating the set via the menu and service menu, and the Video Essentials DVD. My biggest beef with digital cable is digital blocking and motion blur. Of course this is only in the store, so the settings could be really hot on those sets too.

Back in the "old" days when "digital" cable was a new thing, blocking/pixelation was pretty common. Turned out that the cable boxes were so sensitive to signal strength, that too strong of a signal would cause pixelation just like too weak of a signal would. Once we managed to attenuate the signal properly, those problems went away.

Todays cable receivers are more tolerant of less than optimum signals, but will still create picture problems if things are far enough off the mark.

Sometimes motion blur and other artifacts can be caused by the over zealous compression that cable and satellite companies do to conserve bandwidth. Off the air terrestrial HD broadcast will give you the best HD broadcast picture available today.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back in the "old" days when "digital" cable was a new thing, blocking/pixelation was pretty common. Turned out that the cable boxes were so sensitive to signal strength, that too strong of a signal would cause pixelation just like too weak of a signal would. Once we managed to attenuate the signal properly, those problems went away. Todays cable receivers are more tolerant of less than optimum signals, but will still create picture problems if things are far enough off the mark. Sometimes motion blur and other artifacts can be caused by the over zealous compression that cable and satellite companies do to conserve bandwidth. Off the air terrestrial HD broadcast will give you the best HD broadcast picture available today.

I assumed this was the issue (bolded), but thanks for the history. My understanding was that they compress all the digital channels into a slot that once broadcast just one analog channel.

 

[JadeEast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I assumed this was the issue (bolded), but thanks for the history. My understanding was that they compress all the digital channels into a slot that once broadcast just one analog channel.

Shhhh that's the big secret.

 

[Homeless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a Sony 52" XBR3 LCD panel and SD looks awesome on it. Not as good as HD, of course, but better than SD ever looked on any previous display I ever had. Sony's DRC does a really great job if you adjust it properly. It won't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but at least you get fine linen!

What are your DRC settings? I have a 50" SXRD a2000 and although I don't watch much SD, I wouldn't mind trying someone else's settings who are pleased with it. I never really read into DRC so I can't even remember much about it...

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeless /img/forum/go_quote.gif What are your DRC settings? I have a 50" SXRD a2000 and although I don't watch much SD, I wouldn't mind trying someone else's settings who are pleased with it. I never really read into DRC so I can't even remember much about it...

Off the top of my head, I don't remember, but I'l try to remember to look when I get home tonight.

 

[Illah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because Plasma and LCD's are fixed pixel displays. They do not upscale lower resolutions well. As 909 mentioned, some displays have better image processors and can interpolate better. But overall, it's garbage in garbage out. Your old TV was a much softer display. The new one is a very sharp display. -Ed

It's not just that, bad scalers have a big impact in SD quality. I notice the same on my parents' 55" Samsung. Incredible HD, terrible SD.

A good scaler will not just up the rez but also antialias the picture to smooth everything out. Some (many?) flatscreen HD sets don't seem to bother with this much at all.

For example, my upscaling DVD player does a damn fine job of upping 480p to 1080i. That's scaling up by a factor of six in terms of pixel count and it's still clean without jagged edges. I think many HD monitor manufacturers skimp in this department.

BTW I have a non-Ultravision Hitachi and it too does SD extremely well. I got one of the early crossover sets so it does both SD & HD, and for SD it has the option to scale to 540p (basically a proprietary rez that has HD's vertical scan resolution but in the 4:3 aspect ratio) and it scales *very* cleanly. I've calibrated with DVE and the test lines are still sharp-yet-smooth due to quality antialiasing. I continue to be impressed even against modern sets.

Also films in theaters are a little 'soft', they don't have razor sharp edges and neon-bright colors. I find DVD viewing to be more natural and authentic on a good RPTV compared to even high end flatscreens.

--Illah

 

[Nebby]

I think there are standalone scalers you can buy that can do the scaling far better than the ones generally built-in to most hdtv sets.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebby /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think there are standalone scalers you can buy that can do the scaling far better than the ones generally built-in to most hdtv sets.

Outboard scalers used to be a necessity in the early days of HD, but now, the scalers in many players and displays are better than the $20k scalers were just a few years ago.

 

[Nebby]

But how do the scalers in many players and display compare to the $20k scalers available now?

Just kidding, I guess I should do some research on this

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebby /img/forum/go_quote.gif But how do the scalers in many players and display compare to the $20k scalers available now? Just kidding, I guess I should do some research on this

Like I said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Outboard scalers used to be a necessity in the early days of HD, but now, the scalers in many players and displays are better than the $20k scalers were just a few years ago.

The scaler in the PS3 is unbelievable! The scaler in the XBR3 is pretty darn good if you add the capability that DRC brings to the table.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illah /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not just that, bad scalers have a big impact in SD quality. I notice the same on my parents' 55" Samsung. Incredible HD, terrible SD. A good scaler will not just up the rez but also antialias the picture to smooth everything out. Some (many?) flatscreen HD sets don't seem to bother with this much at all. For example, my upscaling DVD player does a damn fine job of upping 480p to 1080i. That's scaling up by a factor of six in terms of pixel count and it's still clean without jagged edges. I think many HD monitor manufacturers skimp in this department. BTW I have a non-Ultravision Hitachi and it too does SD extremely well. I got one of the early crossover sets so it does both SD & HD, and for SD it has the option to scale to 540p (basically a proprietary rez that has HD's vertical scan resolution but in the 4:3 aspect ratio) and it scales *very* cleanly. I've calibrated with DVE and the test lines are still sharp-yet-smooth due to quality antialiasing. I continue to be impressed even against modern sets. Also films in theaters are a little 'soft', they don't have razor sharp edges and neon-bright colors. I find DVD viewing to be more natural and authentic on a good RPTV compared to even high end flatscreens. --Illah

I think my experience has to do with the fact that for some reason my older Hitachi Ultravision is very good at improving SD picture quality..........there were there were many different name brand plasma/LCD models, about 50 sets and they all seemed noticeably inferior to the SD picture from older Hitachi Ultravision I am watching right now.

 

[dan1son]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because Plasma and LCD's are fixed pixel displays. They do not upscale lower resolutions well. As 909 mentioned, some displays have better image processors and can interpolate better. But overall, it's garbage in garbage out. Your old TV was a much softer display. The new one is a very sharp display. -Ed

Well said...


Essentially what you end up with is one SD pixel being spread out over 4 or 8 HD pixels. Makes for a very hideous looking image. Not to mention HD screens pixels are setup completely differently from older CRT displays.

I'm still very happy with my Sony 34" HD CRT purchase. It does quite a good job with SD and the contrast and refresh on HD is remarkable. I've had a number of people ask what I did to make it look so much better than their LCD at home. The only problem is that set is quite small if you're sitting more than about 6 feet away.

 

[909]

also another thing to consider, if it's not been mentioned already is the feed or better put the quality of the signal since your house might have a better or superior feed to the one at the store and that could account for at least some of the difference. the quality and signal strength is probably degraded substantial when trying to run 10 to 30 HDTVs on the same feed even if it's amplified and that potentially creates a whole host of other problems.