[DarkAngel]

Was all set to upgrade my 2-3 yr old Hitachi Ultravision HD 50" projection TV, these use the 3 color lenses with big cabinet all the way to the floor. Was going to bring home nice slim 50" plasma or LCD, they look great in store with HD picture signal they all use, beautiful picture quality but.........

I asked salesman to switch to SD (standard definition) cable channel so I could see how these Plasma/LCD internal upconvertors look. I still proably do 70-80% of my total viewing on SD cable channels so this is very important.

I was just shocked to see how inferior every models SD picture was to my old Hitachi Ultravision......so much so that it was a deal breaker and I will stay with current TV till more programing is available in HD. When I do over 50% of viewing in HD then I will make the upgrade, local cable provided by Time Warner with HD channel convertor box used.

Anyone else disappointed with new TVs SD cable picture?

 

[909]

i assume it's because processor type the manufacturer decides to use. some HDTVs do SD far better than others and in general true 1080i usually don't do it as well as those that are a step below and have the ability to convert up to 1080 very well. i use to watch a lot of SD programming, but after getting my Pioneer 5070 my SD viewing has been cut at least in half since i gravitate first towards the HD programing. still there is no comparison between HD channels and SD and i can't wait to see more HD channels available. before i bought i looked at a ton of different sets and thought the Pioneer handled SD the best.

 

[kbasanti]

SD looks fine on my Sony XBR2...

 

[DarkAngel]

There was a small difference between all the different models of Plasma/LCD when viewing SD cable, but they were all noticeably inferior to the old Hitachi Ultravision 3 lens system........I am wondering why does the older technology work so much better for SD cable?

 

[Davesrose]

Just eliminating the obvious....but did you have the aspect set to SD when looking at the HDTV panels? I find that that resizing always introduces pixelation. Yeah, upconverting still isn't the best: that's why some people just elect to get EDTV panels. Supposedly, they're supposed to look pretty good for DVDs as well.

Though one thing I've noticed with cable signals.....even regular digital SD cable channels look better then the analog base cable channels. Of course it's all not nearly as good as a HDTV or progressive/HD DVD signal. I just buck it up that SD on anything over 35" is going to look soft anyway.....I mainly just watch TV shows that don't need great PQ. And for the few prime time HD shows.....well I must say that usually I watch those for the HD and less so any substantial plot!

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just eliminating the obvious....but did you have the aspect set to SD when looking at the HDTV panels? I find that that resizing always introduces pixelation. Yeah, upconverting still isn't the best: that's why some people just elect to get EDTV panels. Supposedly, they're supposed to look pretty good for DVDs as well.

The salesman tried a couple different viewing modes for SD cable from normal view to various stretch and zoomed modes......again all noticeably inferior to my older Hitachi Ultravision, the salesman did not try to deny that SD picture quality was not very good for the new Plasma/LCD sets.......he did want to change back to HD signal ASAP so other customers would not be seeing what I was seeing

I specifically wanted to check SD picture because I have read other feedback comments where Hitachi Ultravision owners were disappointed when buying expensive new TV with SD picture quality

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif I specifically wanted to check SD picture because I have read other feedback comments where Hitachi Ultravision owners were disappointed when buying expensive new TV with SD picture quality

Well seeing as HDTVs were made for HD in mind, I can see how not even the best one is going to do SD better then SD sets. And a great SD set is probably going to hold the edge on quality when watching those first 100 cable channels. If you like your current SD TV, and mainly just watch SD programming.....then there wouldn't be much reason to get a HDTV.

I'm a movie fan, and try to get HD programing when I can though....so for me it's worth it to have HDTV. I'm not looking for th absolute best PQ when I'm watching the weather channel, CNN, or the Daily Show

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Was all set to upgrade my 2-3 yr old Hitachi Ultravision HD 50" projection TV, these use the 3 color lenses with big cabinet all the way to the floor. Was going to bring home nice slim 50" plasma or LCD, they look great in store with HD picture signal they all use, beautiful picture quality but......... I asked salesman to switch to SD (standard definition) cable channel so I could see how these Plasma/LCD internal upconvertors look. I still proably do 70-80% of my total viewing on SD cable channels so this is very important. I was just shocked to see how inferior every models SD picture was to my old Hitachi Ultravision......so much so that it was a deal breaker and I will stay with current TV till more programing is available in HD. When I do over 50% of viewing in HD then I will make the upgrade, local cable provided by Time Warner with HD channel convertor box used. Anyone else disappointed with new TVs SD cable picture?

Probably the TV's in the store all had contract and brightness turned all the way up. Probably your TV at home is calibrated correctly. If this is the case, the artifacts in SD broadcast will be pretty obvious, until the TV has been callibrated for that signal.

 

[ecclesand]

Another thing to consider is that those displays are setup by the store for HD...the contrast and brightness are usually maxed out (aka torch mode). I would play with it to see if you could get a better picture. Another consideration is the actual SD signal. Most likely it is going thru some kind of splitter (and no amplfication) for all the TVs and that degrades the signal.

I have one of the Hitachi projection TVs and love it. I installed a UHF antenna on my roof and get all the local channels in digital...and many of them have the HD content...very nice. I'm considering dropping cable altogether...more money to spend on headphones!

 

[Edwood]

Because Plasma and LCD's are fixed pixel displays. They do not upscale lower resolutions well. As 909 mentioned, some displays have better image processors and can interpolate better. But overall, it's garbage in garbage out. Your old TV was a much softer display. The new one is a very sharp display.

-Ed

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Probably the TV's in the store all had contract and brightness turned all the way up. Probably your TV at home is calibrated correctly. If this is the case, the artifacts in SD broadcast will be pretty obvious, until the TV has been callibrated for that signal.

That's true that they do like to up contrast and brightness....and maybe even saturation in the stores. But because of the glaring contrast and saturation of many HD shows.....I'm wondering if they have stopped upping it so much

Well on my finely tuned home set......I would say I love my HDTV for HD content and DVDs. SD channels don't look so good at that size.....perhaps a good SD set would do better with those programs.

 

[vagarach]

We have a samsung LNT6552 1080P LCD tv, and SD doesn't actually look that bad on it. Some channels look quite good, since they were recorded in HD and are down-converted to SD.

If you want the best possible SD-on-HD display experience, then buy a device with the silicon optix reon chip, it does a very good upscaling job.

 

[redshifter]

Sony XBR CRT's also have quality rescalers. I'm not sure about their LCD.

 

[kwkarth]

I have a Sony 52" XBR3 LCD panel and SD looks awesome on it. Not as good as HD, of course, but better than SD ever looked on any previous display I ever had. Sony's DRC does a really great job if you adjust it properly. It won't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but at least you get fine linen!

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif There was a small difference between all the different models of Plasma/LCD when viewing SD cable, but they were all noticeably inferior to the old Hitachi Ultravision 3 lens system........I am wondering why does the older technology work so much better for SD cable?

The store may have been feeding an unusually crummy SD signal to the sets too. Noisy, ghosty, etc. GIGO, again, applies here too.