[White Lotus]

Let's not get bogged down in semantics here (or get personal), my rebuttal was the entire post. I never said I didn't make one, just that I felt "let down" that you hadn't actually heard the DT770 before making comparisons to other headphones.

A price tag is not just for specific tonal qualities. It can often be many more things.

let's not look at the DT770 purely just in terms of it's tonal/sonic qualities, let's look at what else the price tag gives us:

 

• Probably some of the most comfortable headphones I own
• Strong like an ox - they are thrown in my toolbag, in the back of trucks, stepped on, and used at all of my events/gigs - and they have never broken down on me, they are still alive and kicking.
• Easy to modify/replace parts (If you're into that sort of thing), with a large user-base to discuss and help with such things.
  
  
   

I'm sure there are other headphones that can do everything I've just mentioned, but ask yourself -


Are there any $20 headphones that fall into that category?

 

[barid]

Quote:

 
You say you had a rebuttal in the works until you learnt that I hadn't heard the DT 770, at which point you felt you needed not to rebut. You then proceeded to lay down more bullet points of your own on why cheaper headphones aren't better than the DT 770, having seemingly not heard the headphones I proposed. In other words, you denied a rebuttal on the same grounds on which you stood when demanding one be given to you.

 
Well in his defense the burden of proof is kind of on the person making the claim, and when you say you haven't heard the DT770 it ruins the argument.  It does however bring up another point; is it worth only discussing current production models available to the average consumer?  or models that would not require any self modification?  If every consumer went out tomorrow and tried to buy the Yamaha HP-50 could they?  Would they be able to do the modifications as well?

 

[214324]

Quote:

Done with the audio equipment, try photography <--- ouch.

As much as I want a DSLR or mirrorless, I don't take that many photos all together. Full manual or close to full manual on a P&S is good enough for most of us.
 
Audio is a hobby or "passion" many of us are willing to pour money into, just like many other things out there people like to invest plenty of time or money into. The people who get into these hobbies can feel the differences through their investments. In this case, we can hear how things being to sound better through our investments in headphones, DACs, and amps.

 

[vid]

Quote:

Well in his defense the burden of proof is kind of on the person making the claim, and when you say you haven't heard the DT770 it ruins the argument.  It does however bring up another point; is it worth only discussing current production models available to the average consumer?  or models that would not require any self modification?  If every consumer went out tomorrow and tried to buy the Yamaha HP-50 could they?  Would they be able to do the modifications as well?

 
Let's compare the phones I mentioned to the K 701 then, which is close to the DT 770 in price and relatively well regarded. All of the phones save for the ATH-2 beat the K 701 (well, the Senns are about on par). Extrapolate to the DT 770 if you want, though the initial argument here is how you can save money on headphones, so the rhetoric of a burden of proof may not be fitting.

 

[Ishcabible]

I can kind of contribute to the DT770 vs HP50. I've used the DT770 countless times, enough for me to know it's not my type of sound, and I bought an HP3 for $30. The main problem with comparing the two is that they offer completely different sounds. I think the HP3's warm, sensual midrange trounces the DT770's. I do think the DT770's more pronounced treble and more impactful, but, to my ears, inferior, bass would be preferable to most non-audiophiles though. 
 
As for the bullet points, I think my HP3 is more comfortable mostly because they basically don't clamp. I think the DT770 would have a slight edge in durability, but I can stuff the HP3 in my bag without worrying, which I can't do with my ESW9. And even I was able to mod my HP3. Recabling it is a breeze, new pads are about $7, and they respond quite well to simple mods.
 
Oh, and yeah the HP3 beat my K702 in a few areas, namely midrange. I hated how thin my K702's midrange was, but the soundstage was just so cool. I'm going to miss it.

 

[bracko]

Quote:

 
Let's compare the phones I mentioned to the K 701 then, which is close to the DT 770 in price and relatively well regarded. All of the phones save for the ATH-2 beat the K 701 (well, the Senns are about on par). Extrapolate to the DT 770 if you want, though the initial argument here is how you can save money on headphones, so the rhetoric of a burden of proof may not be fitting.

DT770 and k701 are two completely different sounding headphones. I really didn't like DT770. 

 

[White Lotus]

Thanks for your points regarding the tonality differences between the HP-50 and the DT770.

They seems to be 80's era orthodynamic headphones, and from the photos I'm seeing, I'm genuinely surprised that they are comparable in durability to the DT770.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VINTAGE-YAMAHA-HP-50A-ORTHODYNAMIC-HEADPHONES-MINT-CONDITION-/111088082762?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item19dd5d9f4a

But you are all making really good points, and thank you for your contributions.

Could I walk into a store, today, and buy a HP-50 for $20?

 

[Errymoose]

Quote:

 
Let's compare the phones I mentioned to the K 701 then, which is close to the DT 770 in price and relatively well regarded. All of the phones save for the ATH-2 beat the K 701 (well, the Senns are about on par). Extrapolate to the DT 770 if you want, though the initial argument here is how you can save money on headphones, so the rhetoric of a burden of proof may not be fitting.

Surely though if some $20 headphones are "world class" while others are rubbish, you can't just grab two similarly priced headphones and "extrapolate" from one to the other...
 
I mean, you might even be right about the particular headphone you're pushing, but your arguments are just completely lacking in any kind of logic.  And if these old yamaha's are particularly warm sounding phones, comparing it to a K701 or DT770 is nonsensical anyway, as the person who likes a very warm sound probably won't like those two particular headphones.

 

[vid]

Quote:

Surely though if some $20 headphones are "world class" while others are rubbish, you can't just grab two similarly priced headphones and "extrapolate" from one to the other...
 
I mean, you might even be right about the particular headphone you're pushing, but your arguments are just completely lacking in any kind of logic.  And if these old yamaha's are particularly warm sounding phones, comparing it to a K701 or DT770 is nonsensical anyway, as the person who likes a very warm sound probably won't like those two particular headphones.

 
Stock Yamahas from what I know are bloated-sounding. You then mod them. Mine are tweaked for neutrality over most of the spectrum and indeed the K 701 were ashamed of themselves in a comparison. Though as Ish says, soundstage and the low-tier HP series don't go together.
 
On the other hand, your post oozes the very tone that keeps the prices down no matter what and for that I say thanks.

 

[Errymoose]

Then please explain the mods you've done to us?  What materials did you use and how long did it take you?

 

[vid]

'Us'? You'd prefer the word 'me' if you had honest intentions. Anyway, let us browse the Ortho thread here on HF and use the Megathreads search engine (let us Google) for any particulars we want.

 

[Happy Camper]

I spend it to p!ss you off.

 

[Errymoose]

Quote:

'Us'? You'd prefer the word 'me' if you had honest intentions. Anyway, let us browse the Ortho thread here on HF and use the Megathreads search engine (let us Google) for any particulars we want.

Noone else questioned your magical $20 world beating headphone?
 
But back to my original point, if you don't want to spend many hours figuring out how to mod an old ortho, you can just spend a few hundred on a good modern headphone.   II don't really -want- to spend the amount of time it would take to find a good condition vintage ortho with next to hope of finding replacement parts and then spend all the time figuring out how to make it sound good.  That much time is worth more to me than buying a mid-fi headphone.    If it's not to you, that's fine, but you are unusual...

 

[Ishcabible]

Well in his defense, you really don't need to search for replacement parts (especially for the HP50/HP3; it'd take a special kind of clutz to break anything on that) for most vintage orthos because there isn't much to break. And as for the modding, most of the people that bother modding at the type that, well, are into that anyway. Modding isn't the issue you present it to be because it's legitimate fun to us. But even without mods, it's still a fine, warm sounding headphone. The only trouble is that people like to buy them for cheap and flip them for profit. But I'd even pay the going rates (It's like $80 on average on eBay) since I still prefer stock sound to a lot of other sub-$100 headphones. They're not world-beaters to me, but with the way I have them modded, they easily surpass my ESW9 in every way possible except for looks.
 
Also, for students like me, spending hundreds of dollars on a modern headphone isn't very feasible, so modding is a much more attractive option.

 

[JK1]

The JVC HAS400 for around $25 is better than many headphones that are much more expensive.