[Clive101]

Apart from issues caused by RF or other noise

Thought you had nailed the thread question, appears not..?

I guess that some USB cables are better with noise rejection than others unless we have all got faulty DACs...? as suggested by others on this thread..!

Edit Noise transfer is the problem as you suggest.

 

[Triode User]

Thought you had nailed the thread question, appears not..?

I guess that some USB cables are better with noise rejection than others unless we have all got faulty DACs...? as suggested by others on this thread..!

Edit Noise transfer is the problem as you suggest.

Yep, it appears my DAC is faulty. Who would have thought it. I'll send it back on Monday. And the Blu2 because I won't have a use for that when the DAC goes back.

 

[Duy Le]

3. A "better" USB cable could only be better with a device which does not perform flawlessly with a USB specification signal, IE. A faulty DAC. If you do not have a faulty DAC then any cable which meets USB specifications will cause the DAC to perform perfectly and obviously, a "better" cable cannot cause a DAC to perform more than perfectly.

G

I see it conflicts with your previous posts. You said that USB cable does not effect sound.

 

[Clive101]

http://hifipig.com/new-usb-cable-from-cad-at-indulgence/#more-34295

It would seem noise can get transferred along the USB cable hence the a manufacture has tried to filter out the noise..?
See the above link

 

[Arpiben]

Thought you had nailed the thread question, appears not..?

I guess that some USB cables are better with noise rejection than others unless we have all got faulty DACs...? as suggested by others on this thread..!

Edit Noise transfer is the problem as you suggest.

Again, I will remind that is not up to USB cable to filter noises created at Source ( Computer/DAP) or at DAC level.
Again the USB manufacturer is providing very vague details dealing with which high frequencies its 'patented' cable is rejecting.
FPGA/USB MCU chips/ etc are generating EMI at their clock frequencies ( around 100MHz for example) and harmonics.
Properly filtered Ins&Outs will not require ferrite chokes on USB or for the more wealthy dedicated audiophile USB cable.

A properly designed DAP/DAC should take into account those well known issues.
For this reason we may consider those items faulty.

 

[Clive101]

Yes again I have a faulty DAC as others.
Noise from the source should not be present but it is to a greater or lesser extent depending on the source which is why some USB leads sound different as they deal with noise to greater or less extent depending on how they are made I guess.
The thread question is the main thing to consider not the DAC

 

[Triode User]

Yes again I have a faulty DAC as others.
Noise from the source should not be present but it is to a greater or lesser extent depending on the source which is why some USB leads sound different as they deal with noise to greater or less extent depending on how they are made I guess.
The thread question is the main thing to consider not the DAC

Yeah, you and me with our faulty DACs! Funny that I don't give a flying fig. I'd much rather have my dac and some ferrites than any other dac I have come across.

 

[Arpiben]

Yes again I have a faulty DAC as others.
Noise from the source should not be present but it is to a greater or lesser extent depending on the source which is why some USB leads sound different as they deal with noise to greater or less extent depending on how they are made I guess.
The thread question is the main thing to consider not the DAC

Unless you measure DAP/DAC digital/analog Outputs there is no way to characterise the eventual RFI/EMI.
Unless USB cable manufacturers provide patent reference or frequency range rejection there is no way to know if noises are at least reduced.
EMI/RFI may or may not be audible.
EMI/RFI may or may not create IMD Intermodulation in the audible range.
EMI/RFI may or may not significantly change/modulate Noise Floor.

At the end users are left with empirical or tatonnement procedures trying different ferrites or USB cables.

I am not judging your or anybody DAP/DAC. I only have mixed feelings when some manufacturers are suggesting to use ferrite chokes for interconnecting their own equipments...

Until USB cable manufacturers are showing tangible measurements the discussion will be useless.
Some will keep believing that '0' and '1' are altered, their choice.

 

[Clive101]

Unless you measure DAP/DAC digital/analog Outputs there is no way to characterise the eventual RFI/EMI.
Unless USB cable manufacturers provide patent reference or frequency range rejection there is no way to know if noises are at least reduced.
EMI/RFI may or may not be audible.
EMI/RFI may or may not create IMD Intermodulation in the audible range.
EMI/RFI may or may not significantly change/modulate Noise Floor.

At the end users are left with empirical or tatonnement procedures trying different ferrites or USB cables.

I am not judging your or anybody DAP/DAC. I only have mixed feelings when some manufacturers are suggesting to use ferrite chokes for interconnecting their own equipments...

Until USB cable manufacturers are showing tangible measurements the discussion will be useless.
Some will keep believing that '0' and '1' are altered, their choice.

I am not technical so your post is a little wasted on me ( sorry ) however I do not believe the "0" and "1" are being altered by cheap or expensive cables ( if working correctly ).

What I am sure about is that different USB cables sound different with the same equipment, but I have found the difference to be smaller with the addition of a different source and the addition of a Tours Power supply.

The DAC should not be to correct noise although it would be nice, noise may come from the DAC as well but with Dave ( as this is the only one I have ) I think this is not possible if you look at the noise level spec.

 

[Arpiben]

I am not technical so your post is a little wasted on me ( sorry ) however I do not believe the "0" and "1" are being altered by cheap or expensive cables ( if working correctly ).

What I am sure about is that different USB cables sound different with the same equipment, but I have found the difference to be smaller with the addition of a different source and the addition of a Tours Power supply.

The DAC should not be to correct noise although it would be nice, noise may come from the DAC as well but with Dave ( as this is the only one I have ) I think this is not possible if you look at the noise level spec.

If you are able to find differences one should be able to measure them.
Dealing with specifications, manufacturers are always providing those showing their strengths never their weaknesses.
On top of this, measurements are performed under the best possible environment.
Interoperability or interferences issues are not only found with audio equipment.

 

[Clive101]

If you are able to find differences one should be able to measure them.
Dealing with specifications, manufacturers are always providing those showing their strengths never their weaknesses.
On top of this, measurements are performed under the best possible environment.
Interoperability or interferences issues are not only found with audio equipment.

Yes measurements..! I have no tools to measure the difference apart from my ears (including the brain processing) simple but effective but not scientific as subjective but for me gets the job done.
The measurements of Dave are I believe the lowest for noise in the world for a DAC against one of the best machines to measure noise (read it somewhere).
"Under the best conditions" of course I would expect that its common practice for all products not only HiFi.

 

[D2Girls]

Sorry for the question but what exactly will the digital noise being carried over the USB cable sound like when a song is playing? Would this noise be the fault of the digital source or the cable?

 

[theheadfier]

Why do USB cables make such a difference?

It's pretty simple, really. Because your brain tells you so.

There you have it. No rocket science needed.

Now if you just bought an expensive "high-end" USB cable, and your brain tells you that it makes an improvement in the sound of your system, then good for you. And good for the manufacturer, too. The difference may be as real to you as it is imaginary to me, or vice versa, but isn't the point of buying audio equipment really is satisfying what our brain interprets as good sound?

But seriously now, if you read past this, I'll tell what I really think:

• Digital signals are transmitted as, guess what, "analog" waveforms, and as such the interpretation of 0s and 1s out of the discrete fluctuations of the waveforms are not error-free.
• Unlike the USB data connection used by computer peripherals such as external hard drives, printers, etc., USB audio unfortunately follows a rather rudimentary transmission protocol that does not have the sophisticated error corrections that PC data connections have.
• USB audio still uses the same old protocol used by the original digital audio products decades ago, you know when USB wasn't even invented yet.

So that's why the high-end cables, which at different levels provide their solution to the transmission issues, can make a difference in sound quality.

 

[Whazzzup]

An external music server running roon core has more impact than any usb, or isolator. So on the one hand the source of 1 and 0 are really important.

 

[theorist]

An external music server running roon core has more impact than any usb, or isolator. So on the one hand the source of 1 and 0 are really important.

I agree, but having dropped several grand, if not more, on your Roon running music server, it makes sense to drop a bit more to replace the 'freebees' that comes with the server for both the power cord connecting it to the power supply and the digital cable (USB or other) connecting it to your DAC, provided you believe you hear a worthwhile improvement in musicality from your system having done so.