[In Over My Head]

  I don't listen to electronic music so my opinion on this may come off snobby. But based on my experience, and the limited electronic music that I've heard (mainly the commercialized and popular stuff), the variation and song structure is fairly simplistic. I know I'm over simplifying here and but it sounds like its only playing 3-5 different notes the entire time with similar sounding transitions. I can't stand the way a synthesized drum sounds, but that is more personal preference.
 
I'm sure there is good stuff out there though and I have nothing against the genres. For me, I like the natural sound and the woodiness of instruments, so I tend to stick to metal/rock/classical/jazz.

It seems your appreciation of EDM is roughly equivalent to my appreciation of jazz. I have tried to get into it, but I only really dig the more modern stuff. 

 

[Dr4Bob]

"but it sounds like its only playing 3-5 different notes the entire time with similar sounding transitions"
 
For me this describes the Country Music genre...

 

[In Over My Head]

  "but it sounds like its only playing 3-5 different notes the entire time with similar sounding transitions"
 
For me this describes the Country Music genre...

Or rock music

 

[Angelbelow]

  "but it sounds like its only playing 3-5 different notes the entire time with similar sounding transitions"
 
For me this describes the Country Music genre...

 

 
Or rock music

 
Agreed on country and rock. But like with electronic music, my experience in those genres are limited.
 
Overall, I'm sure every genre has a minimalistic subculture/genre.

 

[mcandmar]

  Good HiFi does nothing for Electronic Music, is my reason why
 
Those searching for those extra micro details, have spent $50k on a power chord,
will look for those details in the best recordings of acoustic instruments, that's where
you can tell what Muddy Waters had for breakfast, and how thick Miles Davies' socks were,
 
I am not criticising electronic music, but it just does not have those extra details in a recording
that Hi End brings out when done well. Let alone the glory of a well recorded voice.
 
I once bumped in Marantz Guru, Ken Ishiwata.
I told him I had their then mid range cd player,the 63 ki sig,
I asked him what model I should upgrade to next,
He asked me "what type of music do you listen to?"
I said "mainly rock n pop from 1955 to 1985",
and he told me "not to bother"! 

 
Lol classic.
 
To me good music requires an artist playing a musical instrument.  Group a few together you get a band, add some more instruments you get a concert band, add some more and you get an orchestra, keep going and you end up with a philharmonic orchestra.
 
That to me is where the pursuit of high end audio gear comes into play, think of the complexity of close to 100 people playing wind/string/percussion instruments at the same time not to mention trying to recreate that "soundstage".  Being able to selectively single out a specific section or instrument and accurately recreate the tone/resonance of each instrument is where high end equipment comes into its own.
 
Synthesized music on the other hand is created on a glorified midi keyboard so you might as well listen to it with a pair of Beats plugged into your iPod.  To me most of it sounds like a washing machine humping a robot, but each to their own

 

 

[In Over My Head]

   
Lol classic.
 
To me good music requires an artist playing a musical instrument.  Group a few together you get a band, add some more instruments you get a concert band, add some more and you get an orchestra, keep going and you end up with a philharmonic orchestra.
 
That to me is where the pursuit of high end audio gear comes into play, think of the complexity of close to 100 people playing wind/string/percussion instruments at the same time not to mention trying to recreate that "soundstage".  Being able to selectively single out a specific section or instrument and accurately recreate the tone/resonance of each instrument is where high end equipment comes into its own.
 
Synthesized music on the other hand is created on a glorified midi keyboard so you might as well listen to it with a pair of Beats plugged into your iPod.  To me most of it sounds like a washing machine humping a robot, but each to their own

 

ROFL, how old are you, 80?
 

 

[linglingjr]

  Synthesized music on the other hand is created on a glorified midi keyboard so you might as well listen to it with a pair of Beats plugged into your iPod.  To me most of it sounds like a washing machine humping a robot, but each to their own

 

Of course when you google "Dubstep" or EDM you're going to get mainstream results of stuff that does sound like what you're describing.  You need to dig to find electronic music worth listening to IMO.  Same goes with rap/hip - hop.  If you google "Best Rap artists of {insert year}" you're going to get a bunch of terrible jokes of "artists"  
 
I can't stand loud "Dood check dat s1ck bass drop" dubstep but there is still a lot of melodic stuff being made that I can enjoy quite a bit.

 

[Angelbelow]

 
To me good music requires an artist playing a musical instrument.  Group a few together you get a band, add some more instruments you get a concert band, add some more and you get an orchestra, keep going and you end up with a philharmonic orchestra.
 
That to me is where the pursuit of high end audio gear comes into play, think of the complexity of close to 100 people playing wind/string/percussion instruments at the same time not to mention trying to recreate that "soundstage".  Being able to selectively single out a specific section or instrument and accurately recreate the tone/resonance of each instrument is where high end equipment comes into its own.

 
Agreed. I think that is where high end audio is most applicable too.

 

[In Over My Head]

Fans of orchestral music get the least enjoyment from, and suffer the greatest diminishing returns on audio equipment purchases. They also seem to be ignorant to the notion that technological advancements in music production techniques can provide artists with the ability to create great music that is no less complex than any orchestra. And apparently, you don't need to spend $50k to enjoy it.
 
It seems snobbery and ignorance are costly attributes theses days

 

[Asr]

Synthesized music on the other hand is created on a glorified midi keyboard

 
This part of your post is simply inaccurate and woefully ignorant of electronica as a genre. Any so-called electronica artists who use only a MIDI keyboard are likely either non-commercial or really poor, as synthesizers come in a variety of forms (not just keyboards), and most artists with money also use samplers, plus additional hardware to generate a variety of sounds. And with the computer software available today, the keyboard isn't even necessary either - entire songs can be produced without a keyboard now thanks to the variety of software sequencers and DAWs. Synthesizers and samplers are both considered instruments btw, and it takes skill to use them, and talent to produce music with them.
 
And today's electronica is no longer only synthesized either, so I'm guessing you haven't heard much, if anything, of it. Most of today's electronica is mixed with other elements - i.e., vocals are often added, or acoustic instruments (typically guitars, piano, etc), or samples of real-life sound effects (alarms, bells, whistles, the sound of glass breaking, etc). There are also lots of predominantly non-electronica artists who use synthesizers or an element of electronica in their music - Radiohead comes to mind as an example, as well as most of the "Top 40" pop artists. It's nearly impossible today to find Top 40 music that hasn't been aided with a synthesizer somewhere.
 
Synthesizers are so pervasive today that you've probably heard music somewhere that used one, but didn't know it. If you watch TV or movies at all, then you've definitely heard synthesized music.
 
And if people are just going to come into this thread to bash electronica, I'd like to kindly request those people to get out. This thread clearly isn't for non-fans of electronica, but for those who actually listen to it.

 

[Angelbelow]

This thread is about "why do no audiophiles listen to electronic music." There is bound to be some bashing regardless of the music genre being discussed.
 
Quote:

  Fans of orchestral music get the least enjoyment from, and suffer the greatest diminishing returns on audio equipment purchases.

 
It's all subjective isn't it. I think its fine if you want to state your personal opinion on the music you enjoy but why speak for others in regards to their enjoyment? How would you know what our level of enjoyment is? What objective basis do you have for calling orchestral music the greatest diminish returns on audio equipment purchases?
 
If you personally get the least amount of enjoyment from orchestral music then that is fine and respectable. Don't speak for others.
 
Finally, my comment in regards to high end audio being the most applicable with classical music is simply because there can be up to 100+ instruments plus a massive stage. Accuracy and soundstage becomes important. However, I did not mean to imply that classical is the only way to enjoy high end audio, nor did I mean to imply that it is absolutely the most enjoyable genre to listen to with high end audio. Only you can decide whats most enjoyable.

 

[macrog]

I think the problem evaluating high end gear on electronic music is that its hard to know what it should should like. Acoustic instruments are for me an easier reference point.

For normal listening I love electronics. Particularly Massive Attack, Fluke, Underworld, Deadmau5, Skrillex, Nero etc.

Macrog

 

[In Over My Head]

   
It's all subjective isn't it. I think its fine if you want to state your personal opinion on the music you enjoy but why speak for others in regards to their enjoyment? How would you know what our level of enjoyment is? What objective basis do you have for calling orchestral music the greatest diminish returns on audio equipment purchases?
 
If you personally get the least amount of enjoyment from orchestral music then that is fine and respectable. Don't speak for others.
 
Finally, my comment in regards to high end audio being the most applicable with classical music is simply because there can be up to 100+ instruments plus a massive stage. Accuracy and soundstage becomes important. However, I did not mean to imply that classical is the only way to enjoy high end audio, nor did I mean to imply that it is absolutely the most enjoyable genre to listen to with high end audio. Only you can decide whats most enjoyable.

Lets assume that you subjectively enjoy your orchestral pieces as much as I subjectively enjoy some electronic music, and that this could be verified via neuro-imaging the various reward pathways in the brain (i.e. maximum stimulation). Then you need to spend megabucks on a system to achieve the same level of enjoyment (measured objectively by stimulation of neurons in the pleasure/reward pathways) from your orchestral music that I can get from electronic music played through a very competent system worth a fraction of the price. Moreover, many audiophiles do not enjoy their music to the fullest if their system does not fulfill their very demanding needs.
 
At equal volume, the measurable audible difference between these systems at in terms of Frequency response, THD, S/N ratio, etc is somewhat marginal. As the price disparity increases between the systems, the 'true audiophile' system faces diminishing returns in orders of magnitude to achieve disproportionate improvements in objective measurements that may well be inaudible and immeasurable with state of the art devices.

 

[Angelbelow]

So basically you believe that to fully enjoy classical music you need higher end equipment. That is the point of being an audiophile no? The obsession for the most accurate and the highest fidelity of sound reproduction. Having a competent system is fine, most people can only afford as much. But the thread is about "why do no audiophiles listen to electronic music", the question then, is to ask yourself: If you did have something high end, something well above a competent system, how would you test its accuracy? Its soundstage? There's no doubt that you would still enjoy electronic music the most, but it might not be the only genre you try if you wanted to test the system.
 
Orchestral music is diverse and complex, but it doesn't take an advanced system to enjoy it. Sure the higher the fidelity, the better, but its not a limiting factor.
 
 

 

[razor5cl]

I think it's that when people get to that Audirvana they can't go back to listening to classical music on a lower end system whereas with trance for instance, many people prefer listening on mid-fi systems because high end ones reveal flaws and don't have that sound sig people yearn for.