[Strayngs]

Most dacs and amps with volume control have a subpar preamp if you compare it to a higher end serious preamp. The preamp will undoubtably improve sound in a larger, easier to hear way than most dacs. Yet, most head-fiers ignore this vital part of the system. They seem to think it is for speakers only.

If you havent tried a preamp with your higher end system….you must try it! I can stress this enough.

 

[Wes S]

Thanks for starting this thread! I am very eager to learn more, as I feel like a preamp is the one piece of gear I am missing, and until recently I did not think it was worth it. However, I have been reading up on them a bit as of late and can see the benefit, and now I am planning on adding one. I am still learning about them and would love to hear what people are using or if anyone has any suggestions for some good ones to go for. I am not apposed to tubes at all, but could probably be happy with either SS or Tube if they are good. Any suggestions folks, or what's been working great for you?

 

[Strayngs]

I am using a Canary C1300 right now to my ampsandsound Bigger Ben Rev 2. I am actually considering moving up the chain as I think the preamp is the heart of a system. It is extremely quiet and responds very well to tube rolling. It is very quiet which leads to crazy dynamics. I really love it. I am thinking of going to the 2 chassis Canary C1800.

 

[Wes S]

I am using a Canary C1300 right now to my ampsandsound Bigger Ben Rev 2. I am actually considering moving up the chain as I think the preamp is the heart of a system. It is extremely quiet and responds very well to tube rolling. It is very quiet which leads to crazy dynamics. I really love it. I am thinking of going to the 2 chassis Canary C1800.

Nice! I am looking into their products as we speak. I love tubes, and thanks for the info.

 

[bagwell359]

It's a change from the audiophile speaker world. Here everyone calls an integrated amp, an amp. People that come from the audiophile speaker world know this, but people that have always been on the headphone side are not really exposed.

Being retired/downsized I can't support a Pass stack or support titanic speakers as previously, but, headphones do offer a high quality smaller priced/size option. Once the transducers (headphone & source (phono/dac/reel to reel) are maximized, that leaves the electronics. But folks have to see the need, maybe at dealers and shows there can be more emphasis on that. Since there are so many buyers now considering $7k headphones, when $1k was considered exorbitant in 2010, there are more well heeled consumers that could consider the change.

 

[One and a half]

I've tried a SPL Phonitor2, Sony TA-Z1HES and both fall by the wayside when using the 1/4in headphone out from an Accuphase C-2420 preamp.

Size is an obvious factor, most headphone amps are small form factor, the 17-18" preamps may not fit very well on a desk, but racks are no issue.
Preamps can cope with very tiny signals, that's what they are good at, as well as routing several sources, e.g. multiple DACs, turntables, you name it.

For sources like DACs, the output can be fixed, then there are those that argue, some DACs can drive power amps directly. To counter that argument, it is safer for tweeters to have a preamp running at -40db and a DAC out of control, rather than an out of control DAC that blasts 0db direct to a power amp. Faults like that are rarely the DAC's fault but the player software 'loses it' and spits out white noise.

I dare say some have XLR balanced outputs with enough to drive headphones directly, provided the output ohms are low enough, like under 8 ideally.
Tube gear would be cool, a good complement for 'digital' DAC, there's a Supratek pre on order, to go into the chain prior to the power amp.

 

[KrauserX91]

Thanks for starting this thread! I am very eager to learn more, as I feel like a preamp is the one piece of gear I am missing, and until recently I did not think it was worth it. However, I have been reading up on them a bit as of late and can see the benefit, and now I am planning on adding one. I am still learning about them and would love to hear what people are using or if anyone has any suggestions for some good ones to go for. I am not apposed to tubes at all, but could probably be happy with either SS or Tube if they are good. Any suggestions folks, or what's been working great for you?

Also, is super confortable a preamp with controller. I am using the Bliss as a preamp to the HA300. I have the HA300 fixed at 2pm and using the preamp with the controller to change volume and I dont need to be going to the amp to change the knob.

I was considering a pure preamp to have more outputs and was wondering about Freya+. It has a mode to bypass the tubes to work as SS. I would like to know how Bliss compare as a preamp vs Freya+ bypassig tubes. Also what about feed the HA300 with Freya+, is it weird to feed a tube amp with tube preamp?

 

[chesebert]

Most dacs and amps with volume control have a subpar preamp if you compare it to a higher end serious preamp. The preamp will undoubtably improve sound in a larger, easier to hear way than most dacs. Yet, most head-fiers ignore this vital part of the system. They seem to think it is for speakers only.

If you havent tried a preamp with your higher end system….you must try it! I can stress this enough.

Because it’s stupid and a waste of money.

 

[Strayngs]

Because it’s stupid and a waste of money.

I see you dont care about great sound … no big deal.

 

[Strayngs]

Also, is super confortable a preamp with controller. I am using the Bliss as a preamp to the HA300. I have the HA300 fixed at 2pm and using the preamp with the controller to change volume and I dont need to be going to the amp to change the knob.

I was considering a pure preamp to have more outputs and was wondering about Freya+. It has a mode to bypass the tubes to work as SS. I would like to know how Bliss compare as a preamp vs Freya+ bypassig tubes. Also what about feed the HA300 with Freya+, is it weird to feed a tube amp with tube preamp?

A tube preamp into a tube amp can be very good. That is what I have now. I just ordered a passive preamp with a buffer option and so I will have quite a few options to play with in a couple weeks!

 

[chesebert]

I see you dont care about great sound … no big deal.

I do, which is why I am telling you it's stupid to use a preamp if you have a high quality dac and a properly designed headphone amp.

 

[Strayngs]

I do, which is why I am telling you it's stupid to use a preamp if you have a high quality dac and a properly designed headphone amp.

OK just uninformed….no harm in that. The preamp is the heart of a system. It will undoubtably enhance the sound from a high quality dac and a properly designed headphone amp. Most dacs have a digital volume control. Even dacs with an analog volume control usually have nowhere near the quality of a true preamp. Even most integrated amps have a switch or jumper to bypass the built in preamp because they understand that using a quality preamp will absolutely enhance the sound.

It is important to know what your are doing with gain and impedance when adding a preamp though.

 

[chesebert]

this preamp trend is so dumb.

You generally add a pre-amp because at least one of the following is true:

- You need some way to control volume
- You need to drive very long cable runs
- You need additional gain
- Impedance optimization
- You want to avoid digital attenuation
- You want to tune the sound a certain way (the pre-amp can't add more information that isn't already provided by the source though)

1 is not an issue, 2-4 are rarely issues, 5 is not an issue, and 6 is totally up to you.

Properly designed headphone amp with good quality attenuator (stepped, high quality pot or ladder) can take care of 1 and 5. If you want to add flavor, that‘s a different matter.

 

[bagwell359]

I've tried a SPL Phonitor2, Sony TA-Z1HES and both fall by the wayside when using the 1/4in headphone out from an Accuphase C-2420 preamp.

I think Strayngs and I were talking about pre-amp use in the context of driving an amp that drives the headphones

 

[Strayngs]

this preamp trend is so dumb.

You generally add a pre-amp because at least one of the following is true:

- You need some way to control volume
- You need to drive very long cable runs
- You need additional gain
- Impedance optimization
- You want to avoid digital attenuation
- You want to tune the sound a certain way (the pre-amp can't add more information that isn't already provided by the source though)

1 is not an issue, 2-4 are rarely issues, 5 is not an issue, and 6 is totally up to you.

Properly designed headphone amp with good quality attenuator (stepped, high quality pot or ladder) can take care of 1 and 5. If you want to add flavor, that‘s a different matter.

You forgot the part where it makes your system sound better. That's a pretty important reason