[ohhgourami]

Because they are trendy, "easy to use" because of itunes, and have a large capacity.
 
 
For me:
 
Trendy doesn't mean it's good.
 
itunes is completely useless as I keep my music organized in a completely different way i.e. I don't throw all my music in my DAP (Be realistic here, you don't listen to everything you have.  For me I'm usually in the mood for one thing at a time anyway).  Syncing all my songs at once is silly and useless (drag-and-drop is way more simple)  itunes is and always will be inferior to foobar2k.
 
Large capacity is bs.  I just don't have that much music as a simple answer and all of it is in lossless!  Another thing, be realistic!  Do you seriously listen to every single damn song in an album?  NO cuz most songs in albums are just fillers/crap no matter how good an artist may be (there are some exceptions).
 
iphone is a silly phone.  There are many phones that are technically better and look much better (Xperia X10).  Quality of the UI is debatable.  I like to customize my stuff, having things the way I want it and no company is going to tell me otherwise (apparently the iphone4 is a thing of perfection, the human hand is a flaw!  Must cut off hand to get signal!)
 
Last of all, HM-602 + e-Q7s - done!  Nice and simple, no need for an amp, no mechanical hard drives: an all-in-one package as a DAP.  When I'm listening to music, I'm not going to fiddle with games or anything else, just focus on the music, just how it should be.
 
 
In my lifetime, I will watch Apple burn and die!  It will be a great day for society! 

 
***END OF RANT***

 

[Achmedisdead]

I'd buy a Touch 4G over a Hifiman any day.....and in fact, I did just that!

 

[Eric_C]

ohhgourami: while I realise most of your points were made with reference to yourself, I thought I'd offer some counter-points. My words are in red.
 
Quote:

I don't throw all my music in my DAP (Be realistic here, you don't listen to everything you have. 
 
I do listen to everything I have, actually. The albums I don't like, I've removed from my iTunes library completely. My iPod functions as a personal radio--I almost always put it on shuffle.
 
Syncing all my songs at once is silly and useless (drag-and-drop is way more simple)  itunes is and always will be inferior to foobar2k.
 
Actually, it's just one sync since I use a Classic. That first sync took a long time, but now it automatically adds new albums whenever I rip them to my computer. A lot less micromanagement; I just plug in my iPod and it gets updated.
 
Large capacity is bs.  I just don't have that much music as a simple answer and all of it is in lossless! 
 
I'm not sure how it's bs. The capacity on a classic is quite large, and I do actually have quite a bit of music. 39.13GB at the moment, almost all of it in Lossless, and it will continue to grow by about 3-400MB each time I buy a new album.
 
Another thing, be realistic!  Do you seriously listen to every single damn song in an album?  NO cuz most songs in albums are just fillers/crap no matter how good an artist may be (there are some exceptions).
 
Yes, pretty much. I still choose albums the way I always have: I have to like almost all the songs before I buy it. There have been a few albums where some songs got annoying--I delete those from my iTunes completely, and still sync the rest of the album.
 
Last of all, HM-602 + e-Q7s - done!  Nice and simple, no need for an amp, no mechanical hard drives: an all-in-one package as a DAP.  When I'm listening to music, I'm not going to fiddle with games or anything else, just focus on the music, just how it should be.
 
Of course, it's always debatable how much one person needs an amp, but I use my iPod with my IEMs and that's it. Like you, I don't have an external amp. The mechanical hard drive hasn't hampered my enjoyment at all, and yes, much like you I use my DAP to listen to music (and podcasts).

 

 

[yepimonfire]

Quote:

 


The 128 comment was laden with sarcasm only because plenty of my older music is in 128 from itunes haha. To be honest unless it's on my HE-5LE's and turned up, 128 is totally palatable, and I enjoy it as long as I can't hear any hisses or lack of quality. I just don't see why anyone would ever spend more than 200 or 300 on a DAP ever, the only reason I bought my iPhone is because it's also a phone and I get spotless at&t service where I am. It's a matter of convenience. For the 700 dollar cost of a DAC/DAP from HiFiMAN, you could just get a decent desktop setup that will perform much better, or a line out cable and an E7. To me it just seems dumb, especially because it constrains you to storage limits.

Yes, with AAC, it is difficult to distinguish the difference between 128 and lossless, with MP3, 128 is awful.
 
 

 

[lasraik]

So many Apple haters here.  I used to be an Apple hater.
 
I tried all other players I could find.  I had white screen of death issues with Cowon and even though it was a known issue they did nothing about it so I have a nice paper weight now.  The Zune was OK with good sound quality but wasn't quite what I needed.  I looked into other "audiophile" devices but read a lot of bad things about those companies supporting the device and compatibility issues with it.
 
I caved and bought an iPod Touch and loved it.  I do a lot of business travel and spend hours and hours just sitting in airports and on flights sometimes.  Having a device that I can surf the net on, download apps, read books, watch movies, podcasts, play games and listen to music on is huge.  I'm fine with the sound quality, while it isn't the best (I prefer the Zunes sound) with the EQ app and my amp I'm more than happy with it.  The UI is great and easy to use.  
 
Heck I can even play FLAC on my iPod now.
 
My only complaint is the iTunes sucks.  But I deal with it because I love the device.  
 
I'm sure some people buy iPods because they are popular.  I'm not one of those people and neither is everyone else who has an iPod.  I bought it and will continue to buy them because they do what I want and need from a portable player.

 

[dipm]

Let's face it, it's just a lot easier with the ipod/itunes. nice interface, plus you get lots of apps. Also, most people cant tell the difference between music of different bit rates. the audiofile market (us) is very small in the big scheme of things.

 

[ohhgourami]

I'll clarify a few things I said and counterpoints in orange.
 
Quote:

ohhgourami: while I realise most of your points were made with reference to yourself, I thought I'd offer some counter-points. My words are in red.
 
Quote:

I don't throw all my music in my DAP (Be realistic here, you don't listen to everything you have. 
 
I do listen to everything I have, actually. The albums I don't like, I've removed from my iTunes library completely. My iPod functions as a personal radio--I almost always put it on shuffle.
 
Good that you organize things in your own nice way.  I counter this in another point below.
 
Syncing all my songs at once is silly and useless (drag-and-drop is way more simple)  itunes is and always will be inferior to foobar2k.
 
Actually, it's just one sync since I use a Classic. That first sync took a long time, but now it automatically adds new albums whenever I rip them to my computer. A lot less micromanagement; I just plug in my iPod and it gets updated.
 
First sync is long, ridiculously long.  No way am I going to convert my whole entire library of music to ALAC for itunes either (I don't have one ALAC file).  Every album I get will require another step in converting.  A bit troublesome don't ya think?
 
Large capacity is bs.  I just don't have that much music as a simple answer and all of it is in lossless! 
 
I'm not sure how it's bs. The capacity on a classic is quite large, and I do actually have quite a bit of music. 39.13GB at the moment, almost all of it in Lossless, and it will continue to grow by about 3-400MB each time I buy a new album.
 
I was vague here on my original words but I meant that 160gb was bs.  I don't think you need that much, and you prove my point exactly.  You only have 39gb of music and some you leave out too.  At this point, you could fit all your music on a Clip+ with a 32gb microsd!  I actually have ~75gb of music, probably only 10gb max that I listen to at a time.
 
Another thing, be realistic!  Do you seriously listen to every single damn song in an album?  NO cuz most songs in albums are just fillers/crap no matter how good an artist may be (there are some exceptions).
 
Yes, pretty much. I still choose albums the way I always have: I have to like almost all the songs before I buy it. There have been a few albums where some songs got annoying--I delete those from my iTunes completely, and still sync the rest of the album.
 
The decision you make on buying albums doesn't apply to me.  My music doesn't cost me anything but I can't say I'm doing it legally.
 
Last of all, HM-602 + e-Q7s - done!  Nice and simple, no need for an amp, no mechanical hard drives: an all-in-one package as a DAP.  When I'm listening to music, I'm not going to fiddle with games or anything else, just focus on the music, just how it should be.
 
Of course, it's always debatable how much one person needs an amp, but I use my iPod with my IEMs and that's it. Like you, I don't have an external amp. The mechanical hard drive hasn't hampered my enjoyment at all, and yes, much like you I use my DAP to listen to music (and podcasts).
 
I always felt that getting an external amp was silly as it kills portability.  Not only do you have an extra piece of bulk, you have extra wires coming out.  I have yet to see someone with a ipod+amp combo that seems easy to store [in a case in my backpack].  A 601/602 already comes with an internal amp, the SQ is much better, it has enough storage, it is a reasonably portable size (plus no mess of LODs, rubberbands, unflushed devices).  Not only that, what HiFiMan has to offer cost less if you get a amp and LOD.
 
What you use is ultimately up to you, I just believe there's always a better solution to what apple has to offer.

 

 

 

[azncookiecutter]

iPhone user here, and honestly, there's no phone out there that satisfies the combo of ease of usage, good sound quality, great variety of quality apps, and stability for me. I'm not an EQ user, so lack of EQ doesn't concern me one bit, and sound quality is excellent to my ears. Isn't bad to have both personal and work e-mails being pushed instantly to the phone too.
 
Last time I played with an Android phone, I felt seriously underwhelmed by it (Galaxy S Vibrant to be exact). And to be honest, iTunes doesn't bother me, but I do use foobar to add music onto the phone. iTunes is just for music removal and app management.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Yes, with AAC, it is difficult to distinguish the difference between 128 and lossless, with MP3, 128 is awful.
 
 

Apple made a big deal of their claim that 128K AAC is the equivalent of 256K MP3 - at the time, their default for iTunes downloads was 128K AAC. Since they upped the ante, they dont seem too concerned about which codec is 'better'.
 
On a lighter note, can we keep the trolling from folk with 'I wanna see Apple burn in hell' comments to a minimum, pls ? I dont like a lot of aspects of Apple Inc, particularly their pricing, but its just a corporation after all. Its interesting that a lot of the forum hatred that was previously directed at Billgatus of Borg and his minions on the M$ deathstar now seems to be pointed at Apple - they were too successful financially and we now have someone new to hate. Yay.
 

 

[ozz]

I still think lossy and hi-fi in the same sentence is a contradiction but I do use iTunes,iPhone and an iPod but my music selection on all is in lossless.

 

[Eric_C]

Ohhgourami: thanks, those were really enlightening counter points! I didn't realise you could get that much storage on a Clip+, for example.

I think I'm already entrenched in iTunes, so for the exact opposite reason why you don't want to convert all your songs to ALAC, I wouldn't want to convert them from ALAC. Another way iTunes makes it hard for me to switch is its podcast subscriptions--since they're all auto-updating, I wouldn't want to lose that convenience by using a different software.

FWIW on the amp storage issue: I used to have a Hippocase from Jaben. It stored iPod+amp reasonably well, I just didn't care for the added bulk in the end (and yeah, I also wasn't willing to pay for the very small amps like TTVJ's or Shadow).

And FWIW, I don't find the iPod sound to be lacking either. Sure it's low on voltage, but for IEMs I don't want sth high-Z anyway, and thankfully there are more than enough great-sounding IEMs with efficient design anyway.

 

[tds101]

I just despise people who post just to spew venomous hate to Apple & the iPod line. You don't like Apple, fine,...but their products are just as good or BETTER in some aspects.
 
Deal with it, and be an adult and move on already. 

 

[yepimonfire]

Im no apple fanboy, but they do make good solid products of very high quality.

 

 

[jeffmd]

lasraik, that pretty much sums up my opinions exactly. My mp3 DAPs started with the Iriver 100 and 200 cd players, then I moved up to the creative zen vision M. A powerful device with great sound, but a lacking UI. I started working at a place that took even more time away from home and my desire to do stuff other then audio increased, and despite not being an apple fan, the ipod touch just seemed to do everything I was interested in doing. I jumped on the 3g and haven't look back since. I like its player, its smooth UI, the games I can download for it, and its smooth and fast web browsing.
 
just recently I got a new phone, a rebranded LG Optimus one android 2.2 unit. While offering a similar experience to the ipod and iphone, there was many things that lacked, like in the interface. I mean yea, outfitting your home screen with widgets is a wonderful way of personalizing, but the heart of the iOS is elegance and usability. You can quickly navigate your apps and run them, and pretty much no matter what your UI will allways be smooth and responsive. This is especially noticeable when using the virtual keyboard. Since day 1 of using the ipod touch I marveled in just how well the iOS software marked the point of click for my finger touches. Something I quickly found was a little off on my android phone. Thank god for swype, even if I accidentaly stray way off an intended letter, it is pretty sweet in figuring out the word I wanted.
 
However I am not obliviouse to practicality. I would love to have an iphone, but there is no way I could afford it and its horrid costing plans on the providers it is locked to. The android phone I got was mainly to use on virgins $25 unlimited internet plan.

 

[HeatFan12]

This thread is still going?.....Nice!!!
 
Apple is fun....

 
 
A little AVB love with my A5s on a partially sunny afternoon in SoFla...Good times...