[utdeep]

No, y'all are right.  When it comes to budget, macs may not make sense for you.  Keep in mind that you are posting on a site where people buy $1500 headphones regularly.
 
I'm guessing my unamped $30 Koss KSC-35 brings me 85% of the joy of an amped JH16 Pro.  A decent hackintosh might get you 95% of the way to a Mac if that's the way you swing.  We've posted our reasons why we buy a macbook and you've rejected them.  I'm guessing how you feel about macbooks is very much like how I feel about expensive cables and power sources.
 
At this point, you're just trolling.  While the moderators may tolerate it these days, let's keep it civil.  Honestly, hybrys, if you'd like to post a video of sledgehammering a mac after so much time discussing cost, I'd really enjoy it.  It has been done before, but somehow watching you do it would make my day.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

No, y'all are right.  When it comes to budget, macs may not make sense for you.  Keep in mind that you are posting on a site where people buy $1500 headphones regularly.
 
I'm guessing my unamped $30 Koss KSC-35 brings me 85% of the joy of an amped JH16 Pro.  A decent hackintosh might get you 95% of the way to a Mac if that's the way you swing.  We've posted our reasons why we buy a macbook and you've rejected them.  I'm guessing how you feel about macbooks is very much like how I feel about expensive cables and power sources.
 
At this point, you're just trolling.  While the moderators may tolerate it these days, let's keep it civil.  Honestly, hybrys, if you'd like to post a video of sledgehammering a mac after so much time discussing cost, I'd really enjoy it.  It has been done before, but somehow watching you do it would make my day.

And I'm planning on buying $950 headphones + $600 amp instead of the $1500 on the laptop...  It's just about if it's worth the money.
 
It's not like I flat out rejected everyone elses answers.  I said at the start that build quality and OS were to be disregarded because I'm aware that the build quality is better, but not $1500 better, and the OS is available elsewhere.  Battery is really the only reason I find valid, which has been debunked over and over.  If I was doing anything but web browsing and music on the laptop while on battery, you'd see it come down in line just above the others; around 3 hours.  They haven't reinvented the battery here (...bad example), they're just being extremely efficient with the power it provides.
 
I'm not really trolling by this point.  The conversation turned into something else through natural progression.  If you look and see, both you and ayz are the ones trolling, while I'm engaged in conversation on Mac alternatives, nettop/super-slim computers, and Hackintosh machines, including offering support to someone thinking of trying it out.  A conclusion has been reached already.

 

[beamthegreat]

well, I choose bought a macbook pro because theres a discount and a special offer for students. They also gave me a free ipod touch!! Imo, I think mac are more easy to use and super stable than pc.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

well, I choose bought a macbook pro because theres a discount and a special offer for students. They also gave me a free ipod touch!! Imo, I think mac are more easy to use and super stable than pc.

I gotta say, the Educational Discounts are great.  If I was to go for a mid-level laptop, the Mac and a comparable laptop would ALMOST match in price, if you include the kinda-free iPod Touch.  (It's a mail in rebate... While annoying, I haven't heard of them arbitrarily rejecting anyone, such as many other 'mail in rebates')  I'd go for it at that point, just for the build quality.
 
But, I need the power of an i7, and a good bit of ram.  That's the issue.  With the discount, it clocks in at $2800 (plus a free $150 iPod.)  That still clocks in at $1600 vs $2650.
 
It should be noted, if any students or other want to get a Mac, I HIGHLY recommend Spring 2010 refurbs.  I could get one with an i7 for a total of $300 off with the Edu and Refurb discount.
 
Also, why are MBPs $100 more expensive on the Canadian site?  I'd already have to pay taxes on import...

 

[happyxix]

Quote:

No, y'all are right.  When it comes to budget, macs may not make sense for you.  Keep in mind that you are posting on a site where people buy $1500 headphones regularly.
 
I'm guessing my unamped $30 Koss KSC-35 brings me 85% of the joy of an amped JH16 Pro.  A decent hackintosh might get you 95% of the way to a Mac if that's the way you swing.  We've posted our reasons why we buy a macbook and you've rejected them.  I'm guessing how you feel about macbooks is very much like how I feel about expensive cables and power sources.
 
At this point, you're just trolling.  While the moderators may tolerate it these days, let's keep it civil.  Honestly, hybrys, if you'd like to post a video of sledgehammering a mac after so much time discussing cost, I'd really enjoy it.  It has been done before, but somehow watching you do it would make my day.

 
Thats where you are wrong. A hackintosh gets you 150% there. 
 
a) cause its cheaper
b) if it is same price then the hackintosh most likely have the better hardware.
 
I still don't understand how people don't realize a mac is the same as PC but with a different OS and selective hardware. Other than that NO DIFFERENCE.
 
Macbook wise there are other reason to get a macbook over a regular laptop but in my opinion none of them are worth the Apple premium for me. 
 
 
 
 
And wow. This is why tons of people are in debt. They don't know how to shop. Unless you are filthy rich and don't care, most of the middle class actually care where their money is going into. Unfortunaly in the case of Macs, the general consumer don't know better. And that comment alone shows how stupid you are. Plain and simple. Ignorant and stupid. There no way of making it sound better. It literally takes a hour of research. Hell typing Macs vs PC on google can get you that information and that take seconds. You are paying that premium for 1 hour for work? $500 per hour. I would love to get paid that.  
 
 
Quote:

You need to stop thinking mathematically. No, the equivalent hourly wage doesn't have to be more than whatever time it takes to do research and do it, although I'm guessing that it probably would come out that way anyways.
 
It's simply worth it for me to spend an additional $500 on a laptop that is well-built than shopping around for some plastic chasis crap with 2 hours of battery life and _THE_ perfect hardware configuration, and hackintoshing it, and having to worry about every apple update and constantly backing up everything.
 
People pay for peace of mind. I'm willing to bet insurance doesn't pay off for most people either, but they get it anyways. The simple point is that I make more than enough and have enough disposable income that I don't feel the need to trouble myself with all that crap. I certainly know how to hackintosh a PC, but I'm happy to spend a bit more on a mac if I want to run OSX just so I don't have to constantly worry about it.
 
I also don't look at price tags when I grocery shop, I just grab what I want and pay for it. I guess that's not thrifty enough for your tastes, but oh well.
 

 

[Hero Kid]

 
Quote:

<snip>
I still don't understand how people don't realize a mac is the same as PC but with a different OS and selective hardware. Other than that NO DIFFERENCE.
<snip>

 
So you're telling me build quality and appearance have nothing to do with it? Comparing hardware between Mac's and PC's is not what it's about, not at all.
 

 

[SemiAudiophile]

I recently bought a macbook pro, the 13" base model. I think the base model has the most bang for the buck. They jack up the prices for the i5 and i7 processors which imo aren't really worth it. And you can upgrade the HDD yourself or the 4gb ram to 8gb easily for $300.
 
I'm not really a Mac person but have used them in the past and they have a rather easy learning curve. I still use Windows on my desktop because it's still more "familiar" to me to do more advanced tasks like server, streaming, etc. But I gotta say I really like the macbook, it's a whole another experience than Windows. Boot up and shutdown time is waaay faster, so is searching the web. Even though the specs aren't all that great, just the built quality of the macbook pro's are worth the premium. Aluminum unibody feels solid, sleek, and luxurious. Backlit keyboard should be mandatory on laptops and the LCD screen has gotta be the best I've seen on a laptop yet. Its sharp and rich like a HDTV, watching movies on it is a blast.
 
I think Windows 7 is pretty nice, but Snow Leopard is much more simple and efficient. I have 7 installed on the macbook using vmware fusion just in case I feel like using it sometimes, but I hardly find myself ever doing so. 
 
oh yeah, that student discount is nice and they have that free ipod touch going on too. 

 

[piesky]

Quote:

Apple doesn't care.  Apple's pro users don't care.  They don't buy the machines caring about whether they have the latest graphics chipsets in them or whatever.  It doesn't affect their work.  Having a machine that works as it is supposed to is what's important.  I understand what you're saying though.  But understand, you're projecting what you look for in a computer onto Macs. That means (like headphones!) it doesn't suit what you're after either.  There's no way I'd buy a Mac Pro either, by the way.  Just the same there's no way you'd buy a HP or similar pro-oriented Xeon tower.  In other words, you're criticising Macs when really what you're saying is that you wouldn't buy pro-level brand-name assembled computers, but feel it's best to build your own, and that represents value to you. It's simply that Apple sell the most well-known pro-oriented towers, so they are the biggest target for comments such as yours.

That's not what I meant. I'm buying a mac, for the other half who likes how they look. I was merely responding to the post quoted.
 
It is not so much criticism as observation. Even so, Apple is the slowest to market among the brand-name builders because they customize the hardware from a very small subset of available components. An entire generation of chips today turn obsolete within 1-2 years. This puts Apple at a distinct disadvantage from a hardware perspective.
 
It's not true Apple's customers don't care. The average home user doesn't care because their needs aren't shortchanged by puny netbooks. However, there are many CPU/GPU limited applications where clock speeds/RAM/Cores is the difference between meeting deadlines or being deadbeats. There was a time some years back when the Power PCs were at the cutting edge hardware.
 
Apple is really turning into a lifestyle computing firm today.
 
Don't get me wrong. I like Apple. It has its place. Look at Ipod's unchallenged position as the No. 1 music player in popular consciousness, its basic engineering essentially unchanged since its introduction in 2001.
 
I'm just not so sure I'll like OSX on the home network. After all, if things go wrong, it's my problem to solve.

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

By the way it's not as if there aren't student discounts for other PC's I know for a fact Dell and HP have them. I was just on dell university looking at Alienware's. A few weeks back they had some decent 1080p monitors going for $130 and some 1600 x 900 monitors going for $110.
 
And even if you get a decent discount so what; it's the classic 1 for 50 cents or 2 for a $1.00 argument. People are generally stupid enough to buy stuff if they see the word "sale". Just because its cheaper than the MSRP doesn't mean it's cheap. I can guarantee you Apple is rolling in the money they get from suckers like you guys because it's alot cheaper to make their products than what they sell them for. Just because you have plenty of money doesn't mean you should spend it.
 
Free iPod Touch. Please. I have one and it sucks. I'm getting a Zune HD at the first chance I get. Even going from a cheap integrated chipset on a laptop to an iPod with the same headphones is enough to make your ears scream. I've never heard worse sound quality.
 
I had $3,000.00 US set aside for a PC 2 years back, but I had the brains to limit myself to $1,000.00 because I knew I could upgrade whenever I wanted to. By the way my PC is still running extremely fast and can do anything I want unlink your Mac which has no chance of ever playing a serious game or running alot of 3rd party software. You need brains when it comes to money. Saving is the new spending. People who spend more than they should is what got the economy in such a mess last year.
 
Technology is the one field you should never spend a lot of money in. Technology advances extremely fast and it makes more sense to spend a few dollars every few years than a lump sum every 5 or 10 years. Do what you want, go ahead get a Mac. I'll laugh at you while I get better performance and support on my PC that looks and runs better than your Mac for cheaper.
 
And honestly it's not as if I'm a PC fanboy in Microsoft's pocket. I use Linux alot. I take entire engineering classes that use nothing but Linux. I wouldn't mind if Microsoft and Apple both tanked so long as there is a decent OS with good support. For now that's Windows.
 
Hopefully the next decade will be the advent of fully supported Linux. Although sadly alot of Linux code is produced by paid developers even though the OS is free. Let's hope it stays free. I'm not sure if it's worth staying here any longer. I've made my point. Take my advice or leave it. Other than that we've all made up our minds.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3

 

[Shike]

Quote:

So you're telling me build quality and appearance have nothing to do with it? Comparing hardware between Mac's and PC's is not what it's about, not at all.

You're listing appearance as a benefit?  What is this, a computer or a fashion accessory?  As for build quality, I have a Dell that's lasted since 07'.  The HDD died, but was an easy fix overall.  I also build my own desktops which haven't had any particular reliability issue.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

Quote:

By the way it's not as if there aren't student discounts for other PC's I know for a fact Dell and HP have them. I was just on dell university looking at Alienware's. A few weeks back they had some decent 1080p monitors going for $130 and some 1600 x 900 monitors going for $110.
 
And even if you get a decent discount so what; it's the classic 1 for 50 cents or 2 for a $1.00 argument. People are generally stupid enough to buy stuff if they see the word "sale". Just because its cheaper than the MSRP doesn't mean it's cheap. I can guarantee you Apple is rolling in the money they get from suckers like you guys because it's alot cheaper to make their products than what they sell them for. Just because you have plenty of money doesn't mean you should spend it.
 
Free iPod Touch. Please. I have one and it sucks. I'm getting a Zune HD at the first chance I get. Even going from a cheap integrated chipset on a laptop to an iPod with the same headphones is enough to make your ears scream. I've never heard worse sound quality.
 
I had $3,000.00 US set aside for a PC 2 years back, but I had the brains to limit myself to $1,000.00 because I knew I could upgrade whenever I wanted to. By the way my PC is still running extremely fast and can do anything I want unlink your Mac which has no chance of ever playing a serious game or running alot of 3rd party software. You need brains when it comes to money. Saving is the new spending. People who spend more than they should is what got the economy in such a mess last year.
 
Technology is the one field you should never spend a lot of money in. Technology advances extremely fast and it makes more sense to spend a few dollars every few years than a lump sum every 5 or 10 years. Do what you want, go ahead get a Mac. I'll laugh at you while I get better performance and support on my PC that looks and runs better than your Mac for cheaper.
 
And honestly it's not as if I'm a PC fanboy in Microsoft's pocket. I use Linux alot. I take entire engineering classes that use nothing but Linux. I wouldn't mind if Microsoft and Apple both tanked so long as there is a decent OS with good support. For now that's Windows.
 
Hopefully the next decade will be the advent of fully supported Linux. Although sadly alot of Linux code is produced by paid developers even though the OS is free. Let's hope it stays free. I'm not sure if it's worth staying here any longer. I've made my point. Take my advice or leave it. Other than that we've all made up our minds.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3

 
I am sure there are discounts for other PC laptops too. It was something that was worth mentioning to save a few $. I don't like the ipod touch myself and prefer the old ipod video or classic over it. Not a big fan of those touchscreens. 
 
You are obviously a PC lover and good for you. Different strokes for different folks. Of all the Windows machines I've used before, not any of them had a equally fast bootup and shutdown time as my current macbook pro. I'm just stating the facts from experience. Also to be clear, I do use both machines and do not choose one over the other, they both have their advantage/disadvantage for certain tasks. 
 
Thanks for the tip on saving money. Let's not get into economics..Yes technology is something that grows at a rapid rate, I am aware of that. I am also aware of Apple's marketing tactics. 
 
I'm not saying that you save more when you buy a mac>pc. I am saying that you get what you pay for: experience, quality built, service, complete package.
 
A few things to keep in mind: 
1. Not everything is free or will always stay free
2. Not everyone is a gamer
3. quality product and service goes a long way

 

[Shike]

Quote:

. . . I am saying that you get what you pay for . . . 

Except that's not the case.  If that were the case, no one would ever get ripped off and Linux/Unix would be absolute trash.
 
Also, self-built desktops are usually cheaper and offer better warranties on parts.  For example, my graphics card and RAM is warrantied for lifetime, HDD is five years, CPU and MoBo is three years, etc.
 
Basically, more expensive != better.
 
Quote:

Of all the Windows machines I've used before, not any of them had a equally fast bootup and shutdown time as my current macbook pro.

 
Did the machines have the same specifications and did you remove unnecessary items from Windows start?  Surely you formatted cleaning out any OEM bloat too and reinstalled Windows before using it correct?
 
If not then your opinion on startup speed isn't really valid, certain OEMs are notorious for messing up Windows before consumers even get their hands on it.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

Quote:

Quote:

. . . I am saying that you get what you pay for . . . 

Except that's not the case.  If that were the case, no one would ever get ripped off and Linux/Unix would be absolute trash.
 
Also, self-built desktops are usually cheaper and offer better warranties on parts.  For example, my graphics card and RAM is warrantied for lifetime, HDD is five years, CPU and MoBo is three years, etc.
 
Basically, more expensive != better.
 
 
Did the machines have the same specifications and did you remove unnecessary items from Windows start?  Surely you formatted cleaning out any OEM bloat too and reinstalled Windows before using it correct?
 
If not then your opinion on startup speed isn't really valid, certain OEMs are notorious for messing up Windows before consumers even get their hands on it.

 
I don't think you understood my post. Quality to me is not just hardware specs, it is the total package. And in that regard, Apple does it right. It's a little cliche but it does "just work" out of the box. No bloatware, no fuss, no need to do any configuration before using it. Everything just works the way I want it to from the moment I first turn it on. Why contact each manufacture/vendor when a certain hardware fails? Why deal with keeping track of each hardware? Just call one number and have them take care of it for you. 
 
Yes with the same hardware specs and from a clean reinstall with all unnecessary services disabled. I would be happy to test/demonstrate for you given the equipment. 

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

22 pages and nothing new. Wow...
 
P

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile 
 
I don't think you understood my post.
 
No, I did - it's just wrong.  Quality isn't determined by price.  It's that simple.
 
Quality to me is not just hardware specs, it is the total package. And in that regard, Apple does it right. It's a little cliche but it does "just work" out of the box. No bloatware, no fuss, no need to do any configuration before using it.
 
And no real hardware choice, limited software support, and exorbitant prices.  That's what the so called "total package" entails.  The reason it works comes at a hefty price in the form of losing choice.
 
Everything just works the way I want it to from the moment I first turn it on. Why contact each manufacture/vendor when a certain hardware fails? Why deal with keeping track of each hardware? Just call one number and have them take care of it for you.
 
Hardware competition, better performance, better warranty (if building own), and better pricing.
 
Yes with the same hardware specs and from a clean reinstall with all unnecessary services disabled. I would be happy to test/demonstrate for you given the equipment. 
 
So you've also tested read and write of the HDD too (can have substantial impact)?  This is also using Windows 7 correct?

 
Responses in bold.
 
Seems we have substantially different priorities, I'm guessing the OP is also closer to mine.