Why aren't there more headphone audiophiles?
Oct 5, 2005 at 7:55 PM Post #16 of 39
I have always thought it seemed like you could focus more on the music, get more detail, and hear things that may be missed on speakers with headphones.

I had no idea about this place until last April but while taking Music Theory many years ago I felt I was missing so much of what classical should sound like so I researched bought some HD590 for $275 and was very satisfied until I came here
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Oct 5, 2005 at 7:57 PM Post #17 of 39
Quote:

I think the majority of these people are not music lovers at all. They just want a way to take their MTV/radio singles with them on the go. And I assume most people probably only have 100 songs tops. I don't mean to generalize, but if they really loved music they'd buy complete albums at full quality.


There are a ton of music lovers that just don't see the need to have it sound perfect. To them, they get the same pleasure from ipod ear buds as with IEMs. They are just happy listening to music. Their diminishing returns are just a lot less than everyone's here. There are a lot of musicians who have crap for stereos, but they still love to listen to music.

Most of the girls that I went to school with had crappy stereos, but they listened to them all the time.
 
Oct 5, 2005 at 8:06 PM Post #18 of 39
It's not just headphones, it's all things audio. Most people seem to value convenience and cheap price above sound quality, it's just a fact of life.

OTOH, Head-Fi is now the biggest audio-related chat site on the web, and that's no accident. Headphones are going to be the primary way people experience music in the age of the iPod, not speakers and home stereo (for better or worse). We are mostly made up of younger Members who are getting their first taste of audio via cans. They would never think to buy speakers and a hi-fi system. So, when those people who are into mp3 are looking for better sound, they are coming here, rather than the other more traditional audio sites. This explains the exponential growth rate of the site.
 
Oct 5, 2005 at 9:24 PM Post #19 of 39
I see more interest in "quality" speakers than I do in headphones. The sound rooms they have in Good Guys and the likes helps people to be turned on to high end mainstream speakers like Klipsch.
The problem is that they will buy decent speakers and then buy a $250 receiver
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then get home and wonder why they don't sound as good.

Headroom should rent space and demo products in Circuit City or one of those stores so people could hear what they are missing. A closed door Audiophile Headphone Room would surely attract even the least curious shopper.
 
Oct 5, 2005 at 9:25 PM Post #20 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by markl
It's not just headphones, it's all things audio. Most people seem to value convenience and cheap price above sound quality, it's just a fact of life.

OTOH, Head-Fi is now the biggest audio-related chat site on the web, and that's no accident. Headphones are going to be the primary way people experience music in the age of the iPod, not speakers and home stereo (for better or worse). We are mostly made up of younger Members who are getting their first taste of audio via cans. They would never think to buy speakers and a hi-fi system. So, when those people who are into mp3 are looking for better sound, they are coming here, rather than the other more traditional audio sites. This explains the exponential growth rate of the site.




and it helps that good cans are much cheaper and convenient than good speakers (and require less thought and setting up).
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 2:33 AM Post #21 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by blip
I've pondered this question for a long time... Not so much why people don't buy $200 headphones but why they don't even try to find $20 headphones when they are willing to buy $400 mp3 players.

What I've come down to is that most people simply don't care. I firmly believe that the majority of music-lovers are rather indifferent about audio quality and, so long as they can percieve a general melody or lyrics or beat could care less about their audio experience. Indeed, I have grave doubts as to whether or not the average music listener really derives any asthetic pleasure from most of the things we look for in music.

My guess is this is the result of education... that they are brought up to view the reproduction of music in a fairly non-critical way. These people can, sometimes at least, be converted. Example: A few years ago my girlfriend was happy listening to a Yamaha computer-speaker rig... after a bit of work, she has become an active participant in my audiophilic pursuits... this has gone so far that my current main system is really OUR system. (Though, I should note, I've only convinced her to listen to better speakers, she still resists the lure of headphones... go figure!)

I think, though, that times are changing a bit. The new high-end (iPod) phenomena has brought significantly more attention to the portable market. I've noticed that non-stock cans are becoming more and more fashionable in the crowds of Chicago... Unfortunately, I think it may be more of a style thing... hence explaining the wide-spread of those hiddeously overpriced, but cool looking B&O headphones. Bose Quiet Comforts are riding on a similar pathetic wave. Yet, I have been seeing a lot of low-end Sennheisers around lately. (The MX500s seem to be considered a good replacement for the iPod stock phones.)



blip, I think you make alot of valid points here, and I agree with much of what you say.

I have also wondered about the paradox of people spending hundreds on mp3 players, and then not really hearing the music with an even decent pair of cans.

My recent thought about this is that the premium headphone/IEM companies are just not able to market their products, and thus only a small percentage of headphone users actually own them. This is not uique to cans, and happens with other things in life. Take wristwatches. You can buy a a casio or a timex or a swatch for under $50. The watch will keep excellent time, and even be "stylish". There are no parts to service, except the battery, which you could either pay a few bucks to change every few years, or just buy another watch. But then there are people who will pay 10, 20, or 100 times more than that to buy a high end mechanical watch, that will need more care and maintenance than a $50 watch (but could last for years as it is likely well-made). These companies don't tend to advertise much -- watch enthusiasts know the companies and search out their products. But most people view a watch as a way to keep reasonably accurate time, and not necessarily a well-crafted mechanical device. And since there are is no mass advertising to the contrary, most people will not be swayed into spending more than they feel they have to. Of course, there are exceptions, like Omega and Rolex, which have snob appeal, much like Bose or B & O do. In fact, Bose does mass advertise their cans, and hence the person who can drop several hundred on their visit to an Apple store, will throw a pair of Bose in their shopping cart. After all, it is the "high-end" can featured in the store.

What I am saying is that: 1) most people are unaware that high quality cans are available (they accept what is provided with the mp3 player as suffcient); and 2) advertsing higher-end headphones can influence people into buying them, as demonstrated by Bose.
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 5:49 AM Post #22 of 39
People dont value headphone upgrades.... that doesn't necessarily mean that can't afford it.

IMHO they purchase a $300 ipod more for the convenience of it... not so much the sound quality. To their ears... the sonic differences are not substantial enough between the OEM buds and (say) an SR60.

It comes down to what weighs heavily... what does the customer value as a listener?
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 10:13 AM Post #23 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74
Talk about double standard! They will act like your insane for spending $100-$500 on headphones but they are wearing $175 Diesel or Seven jeans... go figure
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LOL and I couldn't even convince myself to buy a $115 Alfani jacket the other day...
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 11:47 AM Post #24 of 39
...make their milk the first thing they put into the grocery shopping cart and walk around with that milk in the cart during their shopping trip....

In other words most people blindly just put one foot in front of another and usually see only a few inches beyond their nose....

(PS...the reason one should not put milk into the shopping cart first, is because while one walks around shopping with the milk in the cart the milk is getting warm and it's taste is being altered...granted, it takes some time to get the milk home after one leaves the store, but walking around while shopping with the milk in the cart simply adds to the time it spends getting warm.)

Untill the general public can figure out one should not put the milk into the cart first, we will always have cheap headphones out there...call it Zenos law
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Oct 6, 2005 at 2:26 PM Post #25 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink
blip, I think you make alot of valid points here, and I agree with much of what you say.

I have also wondered about the paradox of people spending hundreds on mp3 players, and then not really hearing the music with an even decent pair of cans.

My recent thought about this is that the premium headphone/IEM companies are just not able to market their products, and thus only a small percentage of headphone users actually own them. This is not uique to cans, and happens with other things in life. Take wristwatches. You can buy a a casio or a timex or a swatch for under $50. The watch will keep excellent time, and even be "stylish". There are no parts to service, except the battery, which you could either pay a few bucks to change every few years, or just buy another watch. But then there are people who will pay 10, 20, or 100 times more than that to buy a high end mechanical watch, that will need more care and maintenance than a $50 watch (but could last for years as it is likely well-made). These companies don't tend to advertise much -- watch enthusiasts know the companies and search out their products. But most people view a watch as a way to keep reasonably accurate time, and not necessarily a well-crafted mechanical device. And since there are is no mass advertising to the contrary, most people will not be swayed into spending more than they feel they have to. Of course, there are exceptions, like Omega and Rolex, which have snob appeal, much like Bose or B & O do. In fact, Bose does mass advertise their cans, and hence the person who can drop several hundred on their visit to an Apple store, will throw a pair of Bose in their shopping cart. After all, it is the "high-end" can featured in the store.

What I am saying is that: 1) most people are unaware that high quality cans are available (they accept what is provided with the mp3 player as suffcient); and 2) advertsing higher-end headphones can influence people into buying them, as demonstrated by Bose.



I would not be surprised if Shure or Ety teamed up with Apple to offer bundle packages in certain markets.
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 2:49 PM Post #26 of 39
People simply dont know. Before I actually listened to a pair of Grados I would have never thought i'd spend 100USD or more on headphones. Now I'm past 7000USD.
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Oct 6, 2005 at 6:24 PM Post #27 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74
I would not be surprised if Shure or Ety teamed up with Apple to offer bundle packages in certain markets.


Yeah, but might point is, even if they did, that would probably account for less than 1% of the ipod market.

99% of the music-listening audience doesn't see advertising for cans, other than for Bose. I raised this in a thread a few months back, and the consensus was that Senn, Beyer, Grado et al. simply don't have the budget to advertise. Moreover, forums like this provide free advertsing (more or less) so those companies get enough business. That's fine with me, but I think it goes a long way to answer the original poster's question.
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 6:27 PM Post #28 of 39
Audiophiles (or people concerned with quality) don't need to be even 1% of the market. They just need to be prevalent enough to justify boutique labels and manufacturers to continue to exist. Grado doesn't need to sell as many as sony, Chesky doesn't need to out sell warner, etc. They just need to make enough to survive.
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 6:49 PM Post #29 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink
Yeah, but might point is, even if they did, that would probably account for less than 1% of the ipod market.

99% of the music-listening audience doesn't see advertising for cans, other than for Bose. I raised this in a thread a few months back, and the consensus was that Senn, Beyer, Grado et al. simply don't have the budget to advertise. Moreover, forums like this provide free advertsing (more or less) so those companies get enough business. That's fine with me, but I think it goes a long way to answer the original poster's question.



Of course marketing makes all the difference but it's just weird that people will put the time and money into their music and then not feel the need to look for better headphones when they hear what their time and money sounds like.
 
Oct 6, 2005 at 6:58 PM Post #30 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74
Of course marketing makes all the difference but it's just weird that people will put the time and money into their music and then not feel the need to look for better headphones when they hear what their time and money sounds like.


Call me a snob, but I don't even think most people really listen to music -- they kind of ingest whatever commercial radio or MTV/VH1 regurgitates on them.

IMHO, part of what defines a passion for music is really hearing it, so , that sense, you need at least some decent audio equipment in your life. Perhpas a good home stereo, or perhaps an ipod with DECENT cans. But I think the mp3 trend is like the cell phone trend -- it's another piece of electronics that we have been convinced we NEED. And if the majority of people are just carrying around an ipod becuase they know it's cool and trendy and shows you have enough cash to afford one, and NOT because they really love classical or jazz or rock or folk or country or rap or whatever, then that same majority doesn't have the right passion for good audio. Now, if it became trendy to walk around with over-sized cans, then all of a sudden, that's what we would be seeing.
 

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