[milesandcoltrane]

Hey guys, this has been bothering me quite a bit. I listen to mostly 50's-60's era Jazz - bop, post-bop, hard-bop and the like. I'm wondering why most of the stuff is so ear piercingly bright or badly recorded. There are some records from the era which sound great like that Oscar Peterson and Dizzy Gillespie album, Jazz at the Pawnshop etc but most are just plain bright and painful to my ears. The earlier stuff by Charlie Parker and all are much worse. I guess technology wasn't top notch back then - but still some albums from the time sound much better than alot of the modern crap we have to put up with these days.

This problem was especially problematic with my Sony MDR-7506. Admittedly really bright cans but I get the same problem but to a smaller extent with my smoother sounding ESW10JPN. Laid back cans like the HD600 helped but with some big loss in detail.

FWIW most of the files are in ALAC. Some are ripped on 320 LAME via Max on the Mac.

 

[salannelson]

I'm guessing it was a trend in the industry to make recordings stand out (similar to the loudness war but to a lesser extent).

Either that or it was just the microphone/tape technology at the time.

P.S. i love my MDR-V6s! i just EQ them a little and they sound great.

 

[9pintube]

milesandcoltrane, I blame it on the Horns.... The Early Jazz Vinyl LPs tend to be alot less bright and more natural sounding when the main artist is playing the guitar...Hence my lack of "Horn Playing" Jazz Lps...Back in the day most studios only used the best Tube mics and even the boards and Tape units were all anolog and mostly tube driven, so you can't blame the Recording Equipment, if anything those recordings, recorded the musical truth that the players laid down in the studio and as you know "Horns" can be shrilling...Now this is MO, because I grew up in a Jazz guitar family.....early 50s-60s jazz......Also, are you listening to CDs or Vinyl???

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by salannelson /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm guessing it was a trend in the industry to make recordings stand out (similar to the loudness war but to a lesser extent). Either that or it was just the microphone/tape technology at the time. P.S. i love my MDR-V6s! i just EQ them a little and they sound great.

Yeah I've read somewhere that some engineers produced records that are bright on purpose. (RVG was mentioned quite a few times, I gotta look for that article/post).

I loved the MDR-7506 when I first got them man. But as I burned it in, the more hours I clocked in the brighter it became. The treble gets grainy and harsh even on non-bright recordings. But then again I'm extremely sensitive to peaky treble so maybe its just me =(

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9pintube /img/forum/go_quote.gif milesandcoltrane, I blame it on the Horns.... The Early Jazz Vinyl LPs tend to be alot less bright and more natural sounding when the main artist is playing the guitar...Hence my lack of "Horn Playing" Jazz Lps...Back in the day most studios only used the best Tube mics and even the boards and Tape units were all anolog and mostly tube driven, so you can't blame the Recording Equipment, if anything those recordings, recorded the musical truth that the players laid down in the studio and as you know "Horns" can be shrilling...Now this is MO, because I grew up in a Jazz guitar family.....early 50s-60s jazz......Also, are you listening to CDs or Vinyl???

I have to agree. Horns, especially trumpets and some sax on free-jazz records get really high-pitched and shrill as you say. Maybe its just my ears =( I love Jazz guitar btw, not Metheney cuz he kinda reminds me of the Kenny G school of Jazz but Wes Montgomery! I've got a few of his records and everything from Boss Guitar to that Live Full House album sound wonderful!

I'm listening to mostly CD rips by myself or from my friends. A friend recently passed me a vinyl rip of Monk's Brilliant Corners and I must say the SQ is beyond the CD rips I have. Maybe its placebo cuz I've yet to get the chance to do an ABX but from the get go the sound is more well-rounded, organic and natural. The first thing that hit me was the sense of space. The soundstage is more 3 dimensional. Then again maybe the record was mic'd properly. Don't have a CD rip to compare to.

 

[magicalpig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milesandcoltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif not Metheney cuz he kinda reminds me of the Kenny G school of Jazz

If Pat reads this he'll come kick your ass.

YouTube - Pat Metheny on Kenny G

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicalpig /img/forum/go_quote.gif If Pat reads this he'll come kick your ass. YouTube - Pat Metheny on Kenny G

I just saw that video you posted and I absolutely agree with Pat. Oh my maybe I should take back my words haha! It's just that some of his stuff sounds so smooth and mellow in an elevator music kinda way. To be fair I've yet to explore his work thoroughly. All I have are one or two albums. I did kinda enjoy his Metheny Mehldau album. And in all honesty I'm kinda biased towards 50's 60's Jazz. I'm not too cozy with more recent music. I guess you could say I'm a bit of a bop head. Anyhow, its time to go dip up some Metheny!

 

[Currawong]

There seems to be a trend of having the mic up close to the trumpet in old jazz recordings which can be irritating on low-fi gear. I wouldn't call it bright though, that goes to modern pop music which has a lot of excruciating treble thrown in, presumably to counter the effect of using dull, cheap headphones.

 

[LFF]

It's all due to the mastering.

 

[btf1980]

Rudy Van Gelder.

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Check Ella Fitzgerald's 'Clap Hands Here Come Charlie' for an example of how to do a 50's-60's recording the right way.

 

[burgunder]

There are a few older jazz albums that I find too bright "Miles ahead" springs to my mind, I find it far more disturbing that a lot of the Blue Note remasters have a lot of distortion/clipping that can almost ruin the listening experience. Too bad I'm not a millionaire then I would buy a top dollar vinyl rig and collect all the old LP's in mint condition

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cAsE sEnSiTiVe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Check Ella Fitzgerald's 'Clap Hands Here Come Charlie' for an example of how to do a 50's-60's recording the right way.

Make sure it's the original issue mastered by Dennis Drake.

 

[magicalpig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgunder /img/forum/go_quote.gif a lot of the Blue Note remasters have a lot of distortion/clipping

Yeah what's up with that? Remasters are supposed to make them sound better not ruin them.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicalpig /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah what's up with that? Remasters are supposed to make them sound better not ruin them.

Depends which remasters you buy.

If they are RVG's, then it's the compression and bad EQ.

Buy one of the new XRCD releases by Alan Yoshida or the SACD releases by Analogue Productions to see what Blue Notes can really sound like.

 

[magicalpig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif If they are RVG's, then it's the compression and bad EQ.

Yeah some of them sound like they've been handle by one-armed syphilitic monkeys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif Buy one of the new XRCD releases by Alan Yoshida or the SACD releases by Analogue Productions to see what Blue Notes can really sound like.

Well, I'd need a CD player first. :shock: